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im sure this question has been asked several times but i havnt had much luck finding very many different answers as to my options. the ones i have read about or thought of are as follows.

- dev squad with 4x las cannon / plasma cannon / rocket launcher and just positioning them in a decent fire lane. not sure which of these options would really be the best to use.
- 5+ assault termies with hammer and shield and maybe a librarian / chaplain to go with them, or hero unit.
- snipers with telion to try to take out the painboy
- vindicator. dont like the idea of it very much seeing as it would probably get mulched after the first shot and all.

appreciate any input you all could throw at me.

thanks

TH/SS Terminators eat nob bikers for breakfast. Thats all you need

An Ironclad might be able to hold them at bay, they're likely trying to diversify wounds, and that means not a lot of powerclaws, plus the dread gets to hit before the klaws do, meaning he can waltz up and ID the warboss, greatly reducing their ability to hit back, plus he's got a melta, probably a heavy flamer, and isn't going to break your list to have him in it.

Ironclad dreads are solid, vindicators are solid (there's decent chance that it will make its points back it one shot), and TH/SS terminators are pretty fair, but only if mounted in a land raider. The reason the terminators aren't necessarily better is that it's possible for many of them to die before they get to strike so you need a big unit, which is expensive when mounted in a land raider, and they're not all that effective against anything else the Orks have. My anti-Nob Ork SM list would feature 3 vindicators as heavy support. That's a hammering that they can't take for long, and is only half their points cost. If you really wanted to make it sick, use the 3 vindicators and put some TH/SS termies on foot behind them so that if the nobs assault the vindicators then you're set up for a counter-charge. Hanging out next to them would more likely result in them multicharging the termies and the vindicators.

Eh.. go with a lot of flamers/heavy flamers/flamestorm cannons. Tell their cover save to suck it. That, or just swamp 'em with marines.


I have horrible tactics. =D

Thunderhammer termies are your best bet, assaulting out of a land raider so they don't get shot, for preference. Even if they don't wipe the nobs completely, they should splat enough to take the teeth out of the mob and make it much easier to destroy.
Tank shocking them with a crusader works pretty well, too. Especially if you can keep something within 6" of their fall back position, so they have to fall back again the next turn. With 3D6 fall back, they'll be off the board pretty quick.

The cheapest is mass missile launchers. The krak missile can insta kill nobz. And if done right, a SM force can have a bagillion missiles launchers lol.

A Thunderfire Cannon, although not something I would usually field, can be an effective deterrant. Using the shot that makes the unit count as being in Difficult Terrain means that the Nobz will have to test for Dangerous Terrain if they move at all! That, coupled with Missile Launchers and/or Vindicators is sure to aggravate the Ork player to no end.

That, and the Thunderfire Cannon is wonderful against Orkz, in general.

Yeah, I will second the Thunderfire Cannon. It´s great for forcing those dangerous terrain test, in addition to any damage it does from the actual shooting. You also effectively stop them from trubo-boosting, since you cannot turbo-boost if you move through terrain.

TH/SS termies are a pretty optimal SM solution to Nob Bikers. TH/SS termies are pretty much the ideal anti-deathstar unit in 40k, really. They're made more effective against Nob Bikers than a lot of other things as the biker squad is pretty much the only thing the Orks are going to have on the table that can really threaten the Land Raider carrying the termies -- so you have less concern about protecting the LR, and even if they get the charge on it, the termies pile out and then get an easy assault on the bikers next turn.

The other SM solution to them that doesn't get enough notice as a tactic is Tank Shock. Tank Shock them with anything. Death or Glory is a bad proposition for the Orks (a PK Nob has a 39% chance of stopping a Rhino without Extra Armor, 28% chance if the Rhino has it -- the Warboss himself will only kill a non-EA Rhino 61% or 44% on an EA Rhino; while the chances are significant, comparing the cost of a Nob or Warboss to a Rhino, it's really unbalanced in the Rhino's favor), and they have to take their morale test before even trying a Death or Glory. Make them take as many tests as you can, and be prepared to benefit from a failed one.

Thundefire cannon is nice, and I also agree that the TH/SS is very nice as well.

Assault termies with a chaplain sound good. I imagine that even regular termies, in a large enough group, could mount an effective resistance.

Relatively mobile TH/SS termies

Typhoon landspeeders with dual Missile launchers (More, see below).

Heavy flamers en-mass (no armour, no cover. Only feel-no-pain).

Ironclad dred (your likely to face 2-3 power klaws + warboss. Big-choppa's only a threat on the charge @ str7. Str9 still needs 4's to glance. str8 needs 5's. Plus walker-damage table is quite resistant to removal from combat) with dual heavy flamers; Cooks boyz & nobz alike. Has a small chance to damage trucks & ignores any KFF mek saves.

MM dred - Standard more multi-tasking but much more vulnerable to nob bikers.

Thunderfire cannon - Difficult/dangerous terrain ignores allocated wounded models. The test is per model and has relatively good chances to do damage (1/6) compared to standard small-arms (2/3 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/2 to pass save, 1/2 to pass FNP) which is about 17% vs 5.5% with per hit with blast & per shot fired to wound. 17% also essentially ignores wound allocation, tis random.

Devastators are entirely sub-par. On foot they cost 40pts less than two typhoon land speeders. Both have the same no of shots but the speeders are entirely more survivable. They also get h.bolters which synergies extremely well with frag-missiles, cruising speed and anti-horde.

Land-raider (redeemer) - Can tank-shock @ cruising speed and with extra armour there is, if the ork player rolls a 6 (We assume he didn't nominate his warboss) to glance he has to roll another 1/6 chance to immobilize the vehicle (a 6 I think with -2), assuming you gave the vehicle extra armour. It can also shoot one weapons (redeemer is the best if you plan to field a few heavy flamers too) AND get in the way, clump up the nobz etc.

Wow thanks for all the replies guys lots of different ideas for me to play around with here and another question or two, not gonna lie i've only played about 8 games and im not 100% sure on all the rules yet.

I only have 1 vindicator so the 3 vindicator idea is out although it would be pretty hilarious.

For instant death purposes (like from a krak missile) does the nob biker use his base toughness or his toughness on the bike?

The landspeeder option could be done seeing as i have 3 right now.

I do have an ironclad but the guy i play with runs with 3 pks in his biker squad so i think it might get rolled.

Thunderfire cannon is probably a good idea in general for playing against his orcs but im somewhat unsure of the rules on it. Does the cannon itself have a statline or is it the techmarine who does the rolling for being shot at and such?

My land raider is a crusader variant and i dont have a whole lot of flamers right now, but i can load it up with 5 th/ss termies and a couple claw termies for giggles though im not sure the claw termies would be worth it.

Anyways thanks again for all the input guys hopefully i'll have better luck in our next game haha.

Base toughness is used for ID (same for all bikes except destroyer body) so S8+ will ID them (unless he puts the S8+9 hits on the warboss). Another very hit or miss option is vortex of doom but it would likely kill one at most. Large Blast's with high strength are the way to go as each blast can kill multiple Nobs. Also hiding in/behind cover works well as it forces dangerous terrain tests and doesn't allow turbo-boosting.

In short, Vindicators and Marneus Calgar (ie. Orbital barrage followed up by 6 WS6, S10 hits re-relloing 2 failed to hits and all failed to wounds ) will do very well Vs Nob Bikers.

Apart from that any S8+ weapons and Thunderfire cannons all do well to.

Good to know, too bad i gave him my marneus model so he could nail him to a cross and make a boss pole out of him as a christmas present haha. Those are the breaks i guess.

Bwar wrote:For instant death purposes (like from a krak missile) does the nob biker use his base toughness or his toughness on the bike?

I do have an ironclad but the guy i play with runs with 3 pks in his biker squad so i think it might get rolled.

Thunderfire cannon is probably a good idea in general for playing against his orcs but im somewhat unsure of the rules on it. Does the cannon itself have a statline or is it the techmarine who does the rolling for being shot at and such?

My land raider is a crusader variant and i dont have a whole lot of flamers right now, but i can load it up with 5 th/ss termies and a couple claw termies for giggles though im not sure the claw termies would be worth it.

1)You use the un-modifyed stat-line when working out Instant Death, Be careful, the warboss is naturally T5, +1 For bikes to T5(6).

2)3 powerklaws (lets assume we killed the warboss @ I4 or it didnt base your ironclad) will swing for 9 attacks total (Remember you have defensive grenades!) which will hit 6 times and cause 1 glance and 2 pens. 50/50 odds of killing it with that, I think. Still, your 135pt ironclad vs 60pt/model will quickly chew through and make its points back.

3) The thunderfire cannon uses the rules for "Artillery" unit-type, p55 of the BGB will explain much better than I

4) You can always proxy the different vehicle-types, as long as the TO/Shop owner/other player arent too strict & mean. But try the TH/SS termies a go. 4 standard 2ccw nobz, 2 big choppa nobz, 1 painboy nob all cause 2.48 unsaved wounds so thats properly 3 dead termies. The remaining two cause 1.67 unsaved wounds but if you round that to two wounds caused, One will be put on the T5 warboss meaning only one model will die & then the power-claw nobz should finish off the other 2.
But if you have a squad of 7-8 and you manage to charge the nob-bikers (they have -1str, -1A per model) then you will cause substantially more deaths. E.g you would take 1.67 unsaved wounds (compared to 2.5) and then dish out 6 unsaved wounds = 6 dead nobz. Thats with 7 models, with 5 living to swing. 2-3 will die to PK swings from the 3 nobz + warboss. )

HtH's

Shoot them with Strength 8+ shots that you have for anti tank anyway and then assault them with a throw away unit (tactical squad or multimelta attack bikes work well for this) to direct attacks away from the assault terminators you assault them with afterwards. You kill a bunch of them with shooting and then nobs have to direct most of their attacks at the throw away unit so more terminators survive to kill nobs.

Avariel wrote:Shoot them with Strength 8+ shots that you have for anti tank anyway and then assault them with a throw away unit (tactical squad or multimelta attack bikes work well for this) to direct attacks away from the assault terminators you assault them with afterwards. You kill a bunch of them with shooting and then nobs have to direct most of their attacks at the throw away unit so more terminators survive to kill nobs.

How does that ever work? You can make new pile in moves if you get assaulted twice in the same assault phase. So you can happily base enough/all models within range of the terminators. The tactical squad will cause near 0 wounds and those terminators AND the tactical squad will be toast.

KingCracker wrote:The cheapest is mass missile launchers. The krak missile can insta kill nobz. And if done right, a SM force can have a bagillion missiles launchers lol.

I'd like to note that missiles aren't as good as you might think unless you're firing them in volleys. When you shoot nob bikers with a single krak missile, they can take that wound on the warboss riding with them, and not only does it not instant death him, but he's likely got feel no pain against it as well (some rules dispute over that, INATFAQ approved it though IIRC.)

Razerous wrote:

Avariel wrote:Shoot them with Strength 8+ shots that you have for anti tank anyway and then assault them with a throw away unit (tactical squad or multimelta attack bikes work well for this) to direct attacks away from the assault terminators you assault them with afterwards. You kill a bunch of them with shooting and then nobs have to direct most of their attacks at the throw away unit so more terminators survive to kill nobs.

How does that ever work? You can make new pile in moves if you get assaulted twice in the same assault phase. So you can happily base enough/all models within range of the terminators. The tactical squad will cause near 0 wounds and those terminators AND the tactical squad will be toast.

The common "models not engaged at the start of combat...cannot swing" misconception. This obviously ignores the "(before any attacks are made)" clarifier.

I found another counter when I played my orks against SM last weekend, Cyclone missile launchers. The cyclone fires two krak missiles and most of the time kills two nobs. I found myself unable to deal with two speeders firing 4 krak missiles into my deathstar.

starbomber109 wrote:I found another counter when I played my orks against SM last weekend, Cyclone missile launchers. The cyclone fires two krak missiles and most of the time kills two nobs. I found myself unable to deal with two speeders firing 4 krak missiles into my deathstar.

Cover saves will half any killing blows you land, be aware.

Culler wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The cheapest is mass missile launchers. The krak missile can insta kill nobz. And if done right, a SM force can have a bagillion missiles launchers lol.

I'd like to note that missiles aren't as good as you might think unless you're firing them in volleys. When you shoot nob bikers with a single krak missile, they can take that wound on the warboss riding with them, and not only does it not instant death him, but he's likely got feel no pain against it as well (some rules dispute over that, INATFAQ approved it though IIRC.)

I think you missed that part of my point. I meant mass missile launchers as MASS MISSILE LAUNCHERS. Mainly for the reason you mentioned. I play against SM regularly and believe me, 1 or 2 kraks into a nob squad isnt anything to sweat about. But pulling a Tau tactic and just pouring them into said nob squad, now that makes you get nervous

Thanks again for all the great responses guys. Think next time i'll do 5 th/ss termies w 2 claw termies to back them up or soak wounds with kantor as their leader for the banner and his power fist and mount them in a raider. Throw in a couple land speeders to cover them with missiles and a tfire cannon and he might not be so willing to bum rush me with them.

There is no reason to use claws to soak up wounds because the TH/SS terms have a much better save.. Youd need 4 extra LC terms to "soak wounds" vs power claws really

Missile launchers arent very effective either because they will turbo boost for 3+ cover save and then allocate 1st wound per firing unit to the warboss who gets 3+ save and 4+ FNP

Basically dont get cute, just use TH/SS terms and slaughter everything.. they will kill 2-3x their points in nobz

3 Typhoon Land speeders can put out 6 Krak missiles and 9 heavy bolter shots a turn and gat a 4+ cover while doing so.

Ironclads with 2 heavy flamers can toast and then assault the nobs causing ID with each swing. ICs can also bring 2 more Kraks along

An Autocannon and missile launcher Dred can also lay some hurt down. 2 TL shots, they don't ID, but they are also good against boyz. and 2 ID causing shots.

a LRC can simply put down mass fire that any super-unit will be afraid of.

Redeemers and Vindicators simply make Nobs cry

a lucky Orbital bombardment can also take them out

Redeemer wont do anything to biker nobz.. IF it somehow hits 6 nobz with each flamer (Which is basically impossible but im using it as point).. Then you'll do 9 wounds, they save 3 with invul and save 3 with FNP

So you're looking at 1 whole nob dead from an entire redeemer using a basically impossible situation which requires the ork player to be really awful with deployment and forces the LR to not move over 6" .. If the land raider isnt moving over 6" that means terminators are in range to charge

6 terminators (Same cost as redeemer) on the charge will do 8 wounds and kill 4 nobs.. basically 4x the killing power

3 Typhoons isnt bad because you got range and 6 krak missiles will do lets say 4 wounds, so if they turbo boost you'll kill 2 including the heavy bolter

Vindicator is decent but has a range issue and since the nobz will be turbo boosting for sure against it and have large bases.. you'll prob only hit 4 max which means maybe 2 dead at most

Iron clads are fine but the warboss messes the whole strategy up really (however if you target the warboss and kill him then you'll be in a better situation for a possible tarpit if no lucky 6s are rolled on PFs)

All those units can do minimal damage but just use them against the rest of the army and use the TH/SS to kill them.. point for point, theyre the best and nothing can even come close

Throw in vulkan or pedro (as most armies have one or the other it seems now) and those terms are even better

Kirasu wrote:Redeemer wont do anything to biker nobz.. IF it somehow hits 6 nobz with each flamer (Which is basically impossible but im using it as point).. Then you'll do 9 wounds, they save 3 with invul and save 3 with FNP

Cyborks are expensive. If he is relying on an invunerable save he is either doing it wrong or at the very least fielding less against you.

The redeemer is great IF you are using heavy flamers in addition. It isn't great for the firestorm cannon but the ability to tank-shock and sit where the nob squad was and forcing them to bunch up AND allowing any units inside to assault AND being pretty damn resistant to return krumping.

Razerous wrote: Cyborks are expensive. If he is relying on an invunerable save he is either doing it wrong or at the very least fielding less against you.

No. Cybork costs 5 points per model, and it's pretty standard for Nobz. Nob Bikers maybe not, I rarely run them, but it's not expensive at all.