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Rather than pontificate on other folks' threads I think one can argue (against their lists) by suggesting your own idea, and inviting ridicule and argument.

Hence: 2000 points (close)

HQ: Wazdakka Gutsmek (185) Cyborg Body

HQ: Mad Dok Grotsnik (160)

Elite: 5 Meganobs. Trukk.Cybork Bodies, 5 X Combi scorcha..(285)

Troops: 12 Boys (I nob) PK. Bosspole. Trukk. (147)
Troops: 12 Boys (I nob) PK. Bosspole. Trukk. (147)
Troops: 30 Boys. Nob. PK (215)
Troops: 30 Boys. Nob. PK (215)
Troops: 30 Boys. Nob. PK (215)
Troops: 30 Boys. Nob. PK (215)

Heavy: 3 Cannon, 3 Ammo runts (69)
Heavy: 3 Cannon, 3 Ammo runts (69)
Heavy: 3 Cannon, 3 Ammo runts (69)

First Point: Every single unit is anti tank.
Second Point: Both HQ are highly mobile to give tactical options.
Third point: Mad Dok plus 5 meganobs, feel no pain, cyborg bodies and fearless gives you five heavy flamers on the charge moving 18 with an assault move and then 25 power klaw attacks at strength 10. This is a decent, fearful, high speed vortex of doom..... and not that expensive.
Fourth Point: The mad dokk will be supported by the two squads of boys in trukks to give flesh shields and number support in mellee.
Fifth Points: The Cannon are almost irrelevant enough to be ignored by the enemy but can defend fields of fire and have re-rolls so are highly likely to recoop points and kill more than they are worth (peanuts) 3 Strength 8 AP 3 shots at BS 3 with 3 rerolls and range 36" is excellent for a mere 69 points. This will keep the rhino rush honest. Deployment should be cautious , cover approaches and keep the other guy nervous about trying to run a flank with light armour.
Sixth Points: 120 Ork boys. Nuff said.

Tactics. Deploy Cannons and three foot slogger squads. Keep all fast units and one foot slogger mob in reserve. The reason for this is to draw the opponent into showing his plan first. If the enemy plans to hold and defend use the first two turns to edge the footsloggers into the best position for a later waagh movement. As fast units come on move maximally to establish an axis of attack that concentrates your force while deflecting the opponent. In other words use terrain and movement to set up an advantage on one side of the board. Later fast units can either add to the axis or infiltrate the exposed flank if the opponent responds by counter-attacking. Example: if you focus your left, (his right) and he moves forces from his left to block you, he leaves an empty space on his right which your own fast moving units can then flank.

While the orks power is sustained mellee, its vital to get your mad dok, and his five kombi-scorcha power klaw freaks positioned to best effect.

Wazdakka is a brilliant shooting scout, his waagh charge is 5 strength 10 power claw attacks (after shooting) and he is fast enough to select targets in his power range, as well as run behind terrain and avoid shooting on himself. You can also get him to join powers with the mad dok, if the situation requires even more power focus. What he cant blast to pieces or mangle he can avoid.

There is no need for mech ork, since the footsloggers running and with waagh are fast enough and resilient enough to cross the board, survive, and beat whats on the other side. Those mech elements used are all fast and all begin from reserve so they are well preserved in the first place, can be used with tactical nuance, and allow you to choose the placement of the key encounters.

Three cannons with rerolls can be very effective in blocking access for the opponents flanking moves, and disrupting rhino rush. Key is deployment, and its always viable to lay out one big mob as a board-wide human shield giving cover saves to the guns if need be.

Situations depend on scenario and available terrain.

Likely strong outcomes: vs SMOE, Eldar, Tyrannids, Ork Mech lists (lol), Daemons Less likely: Imperial Guard. Orc Loota Spam Castling. This army is not totally flexible. It cannot outshoot a shooty army and it is not as fast as a truly fast army. However in my experience the best games are contested where both players balance the desire for victory with a humorous appreciate for things going wrong (as they do). If the ork HQ win their duels the army will likely prevail.

Anyone who cares to blast, defame, doubt or mock the list is welcome. I actually enjoy the harsher critiques, especially if they are actually true, so dont be shy if you think I'm mad to leave out my lootas....

OTG





Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: I dont have anything against Ghazkull, or even normal warbosses, but the reason for the mad dok is he adds fearless, cyborg and fear no pain to the meganobs, and thus converts a low morale, low speed mangle team into a much more resilient and frightening unit. Dont forget these fethers have 2 wounds each, so this boosting makes them potentially a lot better than terminators. The other point is the awesomeness of a 5 combi scorchas at 5 points each. Templates don't roll to hit, thus avoiding the crap BS 2 or orks. Not all the meganobs need to use their flames, and while they should target the same unit if they do, overlapping units can also be hit if they can be placed under the plates, so with clumped up enemies such as tyrannids, you can clear a field pretty well for very few points of cost....

The only concern is the trukks... chances are your opponent will have a hard time either hitting your kannons (4+ obscured or just too small to see LOS)

This means that your opponent's Anti-Tank will be aimed at your three Trukks... Without the KFF or careful deployment they will get popped quickly...

Keep in mind you can take Warbikers as troop choices thanks to Wazdakka... 4 Warbikers and a Nob Biker may prove slightly more resilient if you Turboboost the first turn and spread them out to avoid blast templates... In addition their T5 means that S4 bolters are having to wound them on 5+... typical spacemarines (benchmark) will fire ~18 shots, 12 hit, 4 wound, ~1.333 will get wounded...

In addition when those warbikers blow up a vehicle, only ~1 will get wounded and only ~.5 of them will not save... Do not forget that you can keep more bikers around by taking 1 and only one unsaved wound on the Nob... If he saves it great, do it again the next time the Ladz are under fire... if he does not save it... just do not do it again.

Overall I like the list... however despite how bullet proof those Meganobz are (T4,W2, 1/12 chance of failing to save a wound), remember they MUST travel towards the CLOSEST enemy... I dunno that you have to disembark but you MUST assault anything within range during the assault Phase...

Yes, absolutely.

And this is why the trukks all start off board!

Shoot WHAT??????

When they come on you have the whole long board edge to choose entry. You get 18" of movement, and if that doesnt get you in assault range or in cover, something is seriously amiss in China.

The whole game plan focuses on the use of the trukks. In most cases they will all drive close together into the most viable zone for attack or for terrain shadows as a prelude to attacking the next turn. 18" is plenty of speed for the old 1....2....

Starting in reserve is risky if you keep rolling 1's and they get delayed. In this case you got 120 footsloggers to earn the glory waiting for the lard-asses to finally show up (worst case scenario).

Also mad dokk has to charge towards ths closest enemy yes, but you are driving on from off board so you aim him in the right direction. With 9 cannons guarding the endzone the other guy has limited options to force your hand on a flank. The cannons serve to deny the other guy my rear corners.

Dont forget a big mob of footsloggers also come on from reserve, so if there are some tricky bikes or scouts creeeping around one flank, they are gonna get a hell of a smashing from off board. There is nothing in any codex that can sneak around my end zone and enjoy "flanking" when I mellee them with thirty angry orks with a powerklaw keeping them honest.

This game, once you play enough is all about tactics and mobility, not the list so much as the way you use it.

And that is both a challenge and fun, because you have to try and find a list that has some kind of chance against anything you might hyperthetically meet.

The one army that really creams this one is an ork list based on 45 lootas. Since they out-range the cannon and I don't have commandos to tie them up, it would be the kind of "contest" you simply concede without rolling any dice. (LOSS). I'm forced to run at them, and since they have to have some kind of mellee or blocking support, the math is not on my side.

But thankfully the loota spam is weak against the highly mobile lists, so no one builds that.

I actually prefer non-ork armies and the more I play the more I like small elite forces. I will field Space Wolves or Tyrannids (MC heavy) Falcon Eldar (Phoenix Lords!) or jump suit Tau before orks generally.

Sadly there are so many ways to beat lower ranked players that it doesn't matter which army you field.

So many rookie level guys build armies from codexes and fantasies rather than from the actually practice at games? And it can take 2-3 years of regular gaming to figure out one list by which most people have moved on to bigger and better things. In casual clubbing the majority of players are newbies under 50 battles. Not to mention it costs, so that so many guys cant even afford to buy the models they really need to polish their lists.

After a month stuck in Oblivion and noticing how damn great a way to give up your life it is to subscribe to WOW, I note that computer games give you about 500X the gaming bang for you buck that model games do, so I wonder why anyone bothers to take this game seriously (as a contest/game) When we can play DOW II online and any day, anywhere, get a good challenge.
Or even (as I prefer) a nice team effort in TLS for no cost at all.

I mean beating wave 19 in The Last Stand is probably more of a challenge, more happy and more fun than anything i ever experienced on a table top (in ten years) and you dont have to drive there, models don't get knocked on the floor. You don't have to worry about being kind if you win too much and explaining the rules, tactics, principles of arcs and LOS and all the other "fun" of the table.

I note also that Dakka Dakka is in steep decline, since the progress of new product is glacial, and those who aren't already online junkies are converting one by one as they discover that borderlands, or DOW II Chaos rising is in fact the real game experience they were looking for. And you can probably play for 500 hours (equivelant of 250 table top games) for about the same price as ten plastic space marines. In the comfort, of your own bedroom no less.

So if you hadn't noticed, this is just a hypothetical list.

While I have the models and even painted them, I'm unlikely to ever bother to field them in serious contest, or an of the other armies I have in boxes in the cupboard.

The game here is a hyperthetical one-up-manship, ultimately not earnest (serious), and sympathy too for the fun of building lists in imagination for a game that is frustratingly and beautifully limited to the mode of mutual respect, goodmanners and sportsmanship that are the true glories of the tabletop.

I haven't played a tabletop in two years. I can envisage no reason to, probably ever. But the tabletop does have its own special quality, not in terms of games (which are more vibrant online) but of a very special place for being strangely profoundly HUMAN.

Of being nice, tolerant, forgiving, understanding patient, even conceding victory if there is a lesson in it......

What a wierd post!!!!!

I thought the tabletop was all about models and lists.

but it isn't.

Its about the ways that the "older and wiser", engage with the "younger and greener".

And how the conceited can test each other for benefits sublime and mutual in terms of ego.

Enough crying into the wine.... time to play some Dawn of War II.......

OTG The wierd.

Orc Town Grot wrote:

Shoot WHAT??????

When they come on you have the whole long board edge to choose entry. You get 18" of movement, and if that doesnt get you in assault range or in cover, something is seriously amiss in China.

The whole game plan focuses on the use of the trukks. In most cases they will all drive close together into the most viable zone for attack or for terrain shadows as a prelude to attacking the next turn. 18" is plenty of speed for the old 1....2....

Starting in reserve is risky if you keep rolling 1's and they get delayed. In this case you got 120 footsloggers to earn the glory waiting for the lard-asses to finally show up (worst case scenario).

You're making some serious miscalculations.

1 Your trukks starting off the board in reserve mean that your mass of green is going to advance unsupported into withering fire.
2. When your trukks come on the table, they're going to be advancing behind green tide (what's left of it). You can't drive through your own models, so you're roadblocking yourself.
3. Your trukks don't benefit from cover by driving into it. They have to be 50% or more physically obstructed from view. I think you need to play under the presumption that your trukks WILL be exploded the turn they come onto the table.
4. A board is 48" deep. Your ork boys move slowly. Any decent opponent is going to sit at maximum possible range and pour fire into you for as long as they can. 18" movement will *not* get you charge range. Lets say that you roll better than average and get 2 trukks on turn 2. And that your trukks drive onto the table and don't hit any dangerous terrain for you to fail. AND that there is impassable terrain, or a handy building lined up precisely at the 18" mark to force obstructed view to your two trukks. AND...lets presume that despite the fact that any pistol shot, bolter shot, or any other small arms fire can wreck a trukk....that nothing gets fired into your trukks, and your green tide continues to weather brutal fire. Your next turn you have a 12" move, 2" deployment, D6 Waaaugh! (if you're taking it) and 6" (likely a 2d6) assault.

That gives you 16" to 26" range for the passengers. That means between your two movement phases...if the moon and stars align, and your opponent doesn't move away from your approaching trukks...your maximum threat radius is 34 to 44". That still won't get you into assault, and that's presuming you're rolling 6s for your Waaaugh! and assault moves.

Honestly, what player isn't going to sit back at maximum range and annihilate you with one hand tied behind their back?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orc Town Grot wrote:
I note also that Dakka Dakka is in steep decline, since the progress of new product is glacial, and those who aren't already online junkies are converting one by one as they discover that borderlands, or DOW II Chaos rising is in fact the real game experience they were looking for. And you can probably play for 500 hours (equivelant of 250 table top games) for about the same price as ten plastic space marines. In the comfort, of your own bedroom no less.

Its about the ways that the "older and wiser", engage with the "younger and greener".

OTG The wierd.

I have to be honest with you, I almost didn't respond at all, since pretty much all your posts are off-key, abrasive, and not very spot on with the advice you dish out to people hopefully smart enough to disregard it. In other words, you're a troll, and if we were to chart Dakka's decline, I would look to you for an example of it.

If you'd like to engage in something less inflammatory in nature, why don't you peruse the forums a bit to discover Vassal. I get to play games of 40k against people from around the world from the comfort of my living room without having to expend any funds at all on travel or models.

I'll make you the same offer that I've made to other self-absorbed oddities that lurk in corners of the internet waiting to insult someone: Meet me on Vassal with your list and your skills, and we'll see what happens.