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Hey guys, am i right in saying that the standard war-gear (for example the space marine's tactical squad's Boltgun, Bolt pistol etc) does not need to be visually represented on the model? if this is the case, i'm assuming with an optional weapon, such as a missile launcher, even though he is not holding a boltgun he still has it?
my question is this: can i opt to fire the boltgun instead of the missile launcher, even if the model in question doesn't have a boltgun glued onto it?

Also, (and if this is wrong then i've been playing my games completely skew-iff) they're listed as having both a bolt pistol and boltgun. I'm taking it as read that i can choose to fire the pistol instead of the boltgun if i want to assault on the same turn. Do i then get the extra attack in close combat for that turn?

It's generally accepted that any wargear which the models have as standard does not been to shown for WYSIWYG so things like boltguns and bolt pistols wouldn't strictly need to all be shown.

The optional weapon case depends on if the optional weapon was a swap or an addition, for instance, Tactical Marines are allowed to "replace their boltgun" with a missile launcher, so in that case, no you can't still use the boltgun, that model no longer has one, he could however still use the bolt pistol.

Yes, space marines can choose to use the bolt pistol or the bolt gun in each shooting phase, and as long as they did not fire the bolt gun they may assault, gaining +1 attack for assaulting (but not +1 attack for having multiple close combat weapons unless they have further weapons beyond the bolt pistol / bolt gun.)

Drunkspleen wrote:It's generally accepted that any wargear which the models have as standard does not been to shown for WYSIWYG

While it is accepted, it has no basis in the rules. However, WYSIWYG is technically only a rule for characters

ok, thanks a bunch guys

Ashtaroth wrote:my question is this: can i opt to fire the boltgun instead of the missile launcher, even if the model in question doesn't have a boltgun glued onto it?
Also, (and if this is wrong then i've been playing my games completely skew-iff) they're listed as having both a bolt pistol and boltgun. I'm taking it as read that i can choose to fire the pistol instead of the boltgun if i want to assault on the same turn. Do i then get the extra attack in close combat for that turn?

1. no. it says that you may exchange your bolter for the missile launcher. i.e. you don't have one in your wargear.
2. you get a CC for having two CCW you HAVE to fire your pistol (1 shot) if you wish to assault. (Bolt pistol counts as 1 CCW.)
3. you get one extra attack for assaulting, meaning a tactical marine can get a top of 2 attacks, whereas a sergeant (with base 2 attacks) could get as much as 4, because he has a CCW and gets 1 extra for the charge.

Rapid fire = 2 shots at 12" if you move or don't. one if you don't and up to 24"
Assault = as many shots as there are listed (pistols = assault 1, CCW.)at full range (12 in pistol case.)


Hope that helps, Solon.

PS: I'm assuming you're a new player, maybe just starting out, and that you've got AOBR (because you don't need 'dex yet.) so, yeah, just ask if I didn't make enough sense. Alternatively, go to your local GW/LGS and see what they tell you. it should be simmilar.

Captain Solon - I think you need to revisit 2, its a little unclear.

What I think you men is that IF you want to shoot and THEN assault the only weapon you can shoot is the bolt pistol, as shooting a rapid fire weapon (bolter) precludes you assaulting unless you are Relentless.

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:It's generally accepted that any wargear which the models have as standard does not been to shown for WYSIWYG

While it is accepted, it has no basis in the rules. However, WYSIWYG is technically only a rule for characters

Ah, thanks for that, I was looking over my BRB, scratching my head in bewilderment trying to figure out why I couldn't find the WYSIWYG rules so that I could give a firmer assessment of RAW, didn't think to look in the Character section at all.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:It's generally accepted that any wargear which the models have as standard does not been to shown for WYSIWYG

While it is accepted, it has no basis in the rules. However, WYSIWYG is technically only a rule for characters

Ah, thanks for that, I was looking over my BRB, scratching my head in bewilderment trying to figure out why I couldn't find the WYSIWYG rules so that I could give a firmer assessment of RAW, didn't think to look in the Character section at all.

Yeah, it's one of those funny GW ideas that makes no sense and would have been found had they bothered to get the community to proofread.

Ok, revisits 2.

2 breakdown:

SP1 misworded.
SP2 two CCW = chainsword and bolt pistol for example.
SP3 Bolt pistol counts as one CCW
SP4 You get ONE attack extra for charging (i.e. moving into combat.)

better?

As for WYSIWYG =
Yeah, I oppose.
SP1 It's meant only really for weapons such as power fists and special guns.
SP2 It's mostly for commanders/sergeants and special characters (like a techmarine.) and tanks (rhino's need smoke launchers attached, etc.)
SP3 It's a difficult thing to work with, but the general opinion is "if it can be used, it should be seen." or "if it is on the model, thats what the model takes" (with the exception of grenades, but melta bombs should probably be attached.)
SP4 If you're unsure, it's probably best to avoid.

Example 1:

Captain takes a plasma pistol and a power sword. so WYSIWYG means he takes: Power armour, frag and krak grenades, and an Iron Halo. (he doesn't necesarily have to glue them on them, but in some tournaments, it's very necesary.) he must have the power sword and the plasma pistol must be glued on for WYSIWYG.
Therefore:
He may shoot the plasma pistol and charge into attack. since he has 3 attacks as basic, he gets 1+ for having 2 CCW and 1+ for charging.

Example 2:
Captain takes a combi-plasma and a power sword. So, WYSIWYG means he also takes: power armour, frag and krak grenades and an iron halo with the combi-plasma and the power sword, which must be attached (i.e; must be glued on).
Therefore: he can't shoot if he wants to assault (they're rapid fire, not assault.) however: if he had taken a combi flamer of melta, he could have assaulted (they're assault weapons.)

Captain Solon wrote:As for WYSIWYG =
Yeah, I oppose.
SP1 It's meant only really for weapons such as power fists and special guns.

It's really not.

WYSIWYG as a rule is only applied to characters in the current edition of the rules.

However, WYSIWYG is more than just a rule of the game. It's a gaming convention that is intended to make the game less confusing for everyone involved. As such it means exactly what it says: What you see is what you get.

Meaning that the model on the table should accurately represent what it is supposed to be.


How closely you adhere to it is, of course, up to you and your opponent. But for what it is intended to do, WYSIWYG applies to everything.

Captain Solon wrote:pistols = assault 1

Actually, Pistols = Pistols



EDIT: and as far as i know since many SM have the option to exchange boltgun for bolt pistol, it is assumed a space marine tactical member has only a boltgun, and may exchange it for one of 6 weapons.(ML included...)

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:EDIT: and as far as i know since many SM have the option to exchange boltgun for bolt pistol, it is assumed a space marine tactical member has only a boltgun, and may exchange it for one of 6 weapons.(ML included...)

I don't know why that would be assumed... the Tactical Squad entry very clearly lists them as having both bolter and bolt pistol.

In some previous editions they've only had the bolter... but currently, they have both.