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BRB, page 58, Column 2, Paragraph 1-2 wrote:Differently from other unit types, vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage - declare before you fire.

If they are fired directly, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum range in the weapon's profile).

See page 32 for the barrage rules. To sum up, all the templates in a barrage must touch the original template's outer edge (though there are exceptions if a hit is rolled).

EDIT: I am asking for your RAW interpretation.

If a vehicle unit is firing multiple ordnance templates directly, and it has the barrage rule (for example, a squadron of basilisks, or a manticore's multiple shots), does each shot count as a separate shot? IE, is each shell or warhead independent of each other? Or does the shot still use the template touching barrage rule for resolving the hits, since the weapon is classified as a barrage weapon, and the rules on page 58 make no reference to removing the barrage rules?

RaW they are treated separately.

They're no longer firing using Barrage, why would it follow Barrage rules?

And don't forget that it doesn't apply to the manticore.

The multiple barrage rules apply to "a unit with more than one barrage weapon", not a unit firing a single weapon that has multiple blasts.

Unfortunately, each shot is treated separately per the BRB. It would have made better sense to have applied the barrage rule to all instances of multiple blasts from a single unit, but GW chose to do it otherwise.

SJ

There is a rules gap - they cannot be treated as one set with markers touching the edges, but the rules dont tell you how to then deal with them instead of that - they are not Ordnance so cannot follow the Ordnance rules.

As such most people seem to play them (RAP) as multiple barrage from diffferent weapons, as this seems the easiest way to resolve it.

Edit: misunderstood the question - thought this was abotu firing as barrage, but within LOS.

If they are not firing as Barrage weapons they follow NONE of the Barrage rules.

BTW - Havoc launchers are not multiple launch weapons, not any more. Now they are twinlinked.

I wish people read the Yakface polls and took more heed of them when making their own.

The main issue is nobody is every clear if they are asking for RAW(people's opinions of it atleast) or RAP

I was asking for RAW.

RAW, they're all separate.


As an aside, I really hope that next edition, GW relabels 'Template' weapons as 'Spray' or 'Burst' (or even just goes back to calling them 'Flame' weapons) so that we can bow to the inevitable and stop trying to explain the difference (that GW's own writer's can't even seem to get right) between 'blast markers' and 'templates' to people.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

BRB, page 58, Column 2, Paragraph 1-2 wrote:Differently from other unit types, vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage - declare before you fire.

If they are fired directly, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum range in the weapon's profile).

See page 32 for the barrage rules. To sum up, all the templates in a barrage must touch the original template's outer edge (though there
are exceptions if a hit is rolled).

If a vehicle unit is firing multiple ordnance templates directly, and it has the barrage rule (for example, a squadron of basilisks, or a manticore's multiple shots), does each shot count as a separate shot? IE, is each shell or warhead independent of each other? Or does the shot still use the template touching barrage rule for resolving the hits, since the weapon is classified as a barrage weapon, and the rules on page 58 make no reference to removing the barrage rules?

If firing as barrage use the barrage rules. brrage rules state they fire in salvoe(all at once) EX: 3 battle cannons fire into a squad of tactical marines. If the first one hits, it stays in place, and then the subsequents hits can be placed anywhere touching the first(even overlapping). BUT if the first sctters, you place it so its edge to edge in the scatter direction with where you intended to fire. Subsequent hits must touch/overlap. If using as a direct hit, then you fire each separately.

EDIT: Here is the rule book quote:

"If a unit has more than one barrage weapon, they are fired all together in a salvo... "

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:

BRB, page 58, Column 2, Paragraph 1-2 wrote:Differently from other unit types, vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage - declare before you fire.

If they are fired directly, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum range in the weapon's profile).

See page 32 for the barrage rules. To sum up, all the templates in a barrage must touch the original template's outer edge (though there
are exceptions if a hit is rolled).

If a vehicle unit is firing multiple ordnance templates directly, and it has the barrage rule (for example, a squadron of basilisks, or a manticore's multiple shots), does each shot count as a separate shot? IE, is each shell or warhead independent of each other? Or does the shot still use the template touching barrage rule for resolving the hits, since the weapon is classified as a barrage weapon, and the rules on page 58 make no reference to removing the barrage rules?

If firing as barrage use the barrage rules. brrage rules state they fire in salvoe(all at once) EX: 3 battle cannons fire into a squad of tactical marines. If the first one hits, it stays in place, and then the subsequents hits can be placed anywhere touching the first(even overlapping). BUT if the first sctters, you place it so its edge to edge in the scatter direction with where you intended to fire. Subsequent hits must touch/overlap. If using as a direct hit, then you fire each separately.

EDIT: Here is the rule book quote:

"If a unit has more than one barrage weapon, they are fired all together in a salvo... "

but a Battle cannon is Ordnance, not Barrage. your example wouldn't be valid.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:

BRB, page 58, Column 2, Paragraph 1-2 wrote:Differently from other unit types, vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage - declare before you fire.

If they are fired directly, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum range in the weapon's profile).

See page 32 for the barrage rules. To sum up, all the templates in a barrage must touch the original template's outer edge (though there
are exceptions if a hit is rolled).

If a vehicle unit is firing multiple ordnance templates directly, and it has the barrage rule (for example, a squadron of basilisks, or a manticore's multiple shots), does each shot count as a separate shot? IE, is each shell or warhead independent of each other? Or does the shot still use the template touching barrage rule for resolving the hits, since the weapon is classified as a barrage weapon, and the rules on page 58 make no reference to removing the barrage rules?

If firing as barrage use the barrage rules. brrage rules state they fire in salvoe(all at once) EX: 3 battle cannons fire into a squad of tactical marines. If the first one hits, it stays in place, and then the subsequents hits can be placed anywhere touching the first(even overlapping). BUT if the first sctters, you place it so its edge to edge in the scatter direction with where you intended to fire. Subsequent hits must touch/overlap. If using as a direct hit, then you fire each separately.

EDIT: Here is the rule book quote:

"If a unit has more than one barrage weapon, they are fired all together in a salvo... "

Battlecannons aren't barage weapons, they are resolved separately

From my interpretation. If you're firing directly, they resolve separately.
If they're firing as a barrage they follow the multiple barrage rules of scattering.

sorry my bad. What i was getting at is barrage fires salvo, direct fires separately