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A nob uses a boarding plank to assault a flechette-equipped Tau skimmer. I believe (don't have the Tau codex handy) that the flechette launcher only works on 'engaged' models? If this is the case then it would have no effect on a boarding plank attack, correct?

olympia wrote:A nob uses a boarding plank to assault a flechette-equipped Tau skimmer. I believe (don't have the Tau codex handy) that the flechette launcher only works on 'engaged' models? If this is the case then it would have no effect on a boarding plank attack, correct?

Correct.

I would disagree.

Boarding Plank allows you to make close combat attacks against a vehicle within 2" (presumably in the assault phase)

Flechette dischargers wounds any model making a close combat attack. Nothing about 'engaged models' If you make a close combat attack you're wounded on 4+

So the Nob would risk a wound to attack.

Cheers

Andrew

Hmm...it says, "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." The nob is not IN close combat with the vehicle in question since that would require being in base to base contact with the vehicle.

I have come across this situation in a game and back then we ruled that the flechette had no effect on the model making the attack via boarding plank.

Bah, GW and their lack of clarification of terms.

Simply defining close combat would solve this.

olympia wrote:Hmm...it says, "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." The nob is not IN close combat with the vehicle in question since that would require being in base to base contact with the vehicle.

But he is still attacking. Weather he is in B2B or not does not matter.

But then again, there are many many in inconsistencies because the codex is rather dated its kinda up to what you and your group determine.

olympia wrote:Hmm...it says, "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." The nob is not IN close combat with the vehicle in question since that would require being in base to base contact with the vehicle.

If he's not in close combat then his close combat weapon doesn't work and he can't hit the vehicle. If you allow him to hit the vehicle with your weapon, you're in close combat. That'd be my thought.

It does state the unit using the boarding plank attacks "exactly as if it were disembarked and charging" and as stated the flechettes stated "any model attacking the vehicle in close combat"

So... the flechette launcher gets it's one roll to wound the attacking model.

agnosto wrote:

olympia wrote:Hmm...it says, "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." The nob is not IN close combat with the vehicle in question since that would require being in base to base contact with the vehicle.

If he's not in close combat then his close combat weapon doesn't work and he can't hit the vehicle. If you allow him to hit the vehicle with your weapon, you're in close combat. That'd be my thought.

A good point agnosto. However, the boarding plank specifies that the boarding plank attack is made "as if" the nob was charging. So he's not "in" close combat. I can see it going either way.

olympia wrote:

agnosto wrote:

olympia wrote:Hmm...it says, "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." The nob is not IN close combat with the vehicle in question since that would require being in base to base contact with the vehicle.

If he's not in close combat then his close combat weapon doesn't work and he can't hit the vehicle. If you allow him to hit the vehicle with your weapon, you're in close combat. That'd be my thought.

A good point agnosto. However, the boarding plank specifies that the boarding plank attack is made "as if" the nob was charging. So he's not "in" close combat. I can see it going either way.

Well if you and your opponent can't agree, let the dice gods decide.

There's an argument either way... I'd go with allowing the Flechettes, personally. Sort it out with your opponent.

if you allow the flechettes then doesnt that allow furious charge and counter attack? "exactly as if" if its not good enough to trigger furious charge why is it good enough to trigger the flechettes?

On a slightly related note, the FD targets/wounds models not units, so does that mean the wounds cannot be allocated elsewhere?

Andrew

I would say no off-hand as it affects each model that is in close combat which with the new rules is probably the whole unit so you'd have to roll any saves on specials separately.

mon-keigh slayer wrote:if you allow the flechettes then doesnt that allow furious charge and counter attack? "exactly as if" if its not good enough to trigger furious charge why is it good enough to trigger the flechettes?

Wait. . . boarding planks don't allow Furious Charge? This is news to me. . . Counter-Attack is utterly irrelevant, as nobody is counter-attacking anything.

The boarding plank allows the Ork model to make it's attacks "exactly as if disembarked and charging". When you use a boarding plank, that's all that happens, so I am personally inclined to say that RAW, no, the flechette launchers don't come into play. That said, I can see the arguments, and I'd be willing to 4+ it before the game.

Seems to me either the Nob gets the Furious Charge bonus and risks getting perforated by Flechette (fortunately, he comes with 2 wounds), or he doesn't get FC and doesn't worry about getting hit.

I would play it the first way, but be willing to d6 for it.

no, iw as referring to counterattack and furious charge, counterattack makes it as if you were assaulting the enemy, but you dont gain furious charge from it, but boarding plank makes you as if assaulting and in this instance it counts? seems biased ...

mon-keigh - except CA *doesnt* say that, at all.

It says you get the +1 Attack AS IF you were assaulting - biut that is all you count as assaulting for, the +1 Attack bonus. nothing else.

mon-keigh slayer wrote:if you allow the flechettes then doesnt that allow furious charge and counter attack?

Counter Attack would be triggered, but doesn't actually do anything, since it just allows the model to add +1 to its attack rolls that turn. Since the model doesn't actually get any attack rolls, that accomplishes nothing.

Furious Charge won't apply because the enemy vehicle isn't assaulting.

insaniak wrote:

Furious Charge won't apply because the enemy vehicle isn't assaulting.

Wait what? Assaulting a vehicle is conducted the same way as assaulting other enemy units, thus you get furious charge. What the target being assaulted is/is doing has nothing to do with it.

One thing which nobody has suggested which immediately jumps out at me is what I believe to be the RAI of flechettes.

I think "attacking the model in close combat" the term "in close combat" is being used to clarify that ranged attacks don't trigger it, more so than saying you must be literally locked into the close combat.

I would definitely play it as the Flechette launcher DOES trigger.

juraigamer wrote:Wait what? Assaulting a vehicle is conducted the same way as assaulting other enemy units, thus you get furious charge. What the target being assaulted is/is doing has nothing to do with it.

Yes, of course the Ork should get Furious Charge. I took mon-keigh slayer's post as referring to the vehicle being attacked getting the benefits of FC or CA.

I thought the pretty universal decision on Boarding planks is that if a vehicle is destroyed by the attacks from the boarding plank, the blast hits the armor of the vehicle, since the model is not actually disembarked.

By the same logic, the flechette discharger may trigger, but would also hit the vehicle since the model is still not disembarked. Vehicles do not have wounds, so the flechettes would ping harmlessly away.

There is quite a bit of difference in the mechanics behind a vehicle explosion and the flechettes...

The vehicle explosion just hits anything in the blast. Since the Ork has not disembarked from the vehicle, and passengers in a vehicle can not ordinarily be directly harmed, the blast will hit the vehicle rather than the Ork.

The flechette discharger, on the other hand, specifically affects the model that is attacking it.

Models in vehicles can not be targeted can they? It's not unprecedented, a walker attacking a vehicle with FD in CC takes no affect. So the real question would be is the model disembarked and attacking, or acting as essentially a DCCW for the vehicle.

either you're in close combat and the rules and perks apply or you're not. the tau flechette says models attacking it in close combat get hit on a 4+. is it attacking in close combat? if you say no, it's strange that the ork is using close combat attacks and bonuses it only gets in close combat.

warboss wrote:either you're in close combat and the rules and perks apply or you're not. the tau flechette says models attacking it in close combat get hit on a 4+. is it attacking in close combat? if you say no, it's strange that the ork is using close combat attacks and bonuses it only gets in close combat.

Except that it's a special rule for a piece of upgrade equipment, that allows a model to make attacks against an enemy vehicle as if disembarked and charging but without actually disembarking.

To me it has to go both ways. If the explosion doesn't harm the nob, neither to FD. If FD do, then explosions do.

insaniak wrote:There is quite a bit of difference in the mechanics behind a vehicle explosion and the flechettes...

The vehicle explosion just hits anything in the blast. Since the Ork has not disembarked from the vehicle, and passengers in a vehicle can not ordinarily be directly harmed, the blast will hit the vehicle rather than the Ork.

The flechette discharger, on the other hand, specifically affects the model that is attacking it.

Armour saves, not wounds, are allocated, and by the controlling character.

So no, the flechette discharger doesn't target the Nob specifically.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Whoa whoa whoa there - the boarding plank makes it quite obvious one has the perks for this 'close combat' your speaking of, without actually being in combat.

Same with FD if this quote is accurate "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat..." quite clear it must be in close combat.

Treated 'As If' is in no way the same as being in close combat. Otherwise that language would have been used.

Not to mention this stinks of the while "Doesn't my walker get to strike back at the nob" episode.