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Drunkspleen wrote:But if you are going to claim it's because deep striking is movement, I would expect some consistency.

I figured I'd put it out there...

"Is Deep Strike Movement"...
BRB p95
If a scatter occurs, roll 2D6 to see how many inches the model moves away from the intended position
In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further.
In that turn's Shooting phase, these units can fire(or run) as normal, and obviously count as having moved in the previous Movement phase.

What's the general consensus? Is Deep Strike Movement?

No.

It is a set of special rules used for a particular way to deploy units out of reserve.

Deep Strike replaces the normal movement rules for the unit being deployed during the movement phase it is brought on to the table.

Are you asking can a unit already on the field can DS to somewhere else?

Then no.

or are you asking that when you DS, does it count for movement for firing weapons and assaulting?

I apologize if it's confusing. It's not really a complex question.

Not picking it back up or something tricky.

I have a unit in Reserve that is available to enter play via Deep Strike. When the unit Deep Strikes, is this considered to be movement.

paidinfull wrote:I apologize if it's confusing. It's not really a complex question.

Not picking it back up or something tricky.

I have a unit in Reserve that is available to enter play via Deep Strike. When the unit Deep Strikes, is this considered to be movement.

I say yes because it wasn't on the board in say spot A. Now it's in spot A so it moved there. To get there it had to move there, be it moving how it normally would, eg, move 6" or 12" or Deep Striking into it. Also why whould GW say that they can fire weapons but count as if they have moved. So this way the unit DS in fact moved so it can't fire any missle launchers or weapons like that.

Ignore This:
Wrong interpretation.

n3roman wrote:Entering from reserves in DS, Outflank, DP counts as moving 6 inches.

No it doesn't.

Moving on from Reserves, either normally or by Outflanking is movement because it requires the models to actually move on from the table edge. It only counts as moving 6 inches if they models actually move 6 inches.


Deep Striking is movement because the Deep Strike rules refer to it as such:
Page 95:
5th paragraph: "... may not move any further..."
6th paragraph: "... count as having moved... Vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed."
7th paragraph: "... too disrupted by their deep strike move."
And the Jump Infantry rules list Deep Striking under JI Movement rules.

Yes, Deep Striking is also a mode of deployment. So is moving on from Reserves. That doesn't make it not movement.

I think the OP was hinting at the argument, can a hive tyrant deep strike. I would say yes as deepstriking is a type of movement in my opinion. Anyone who says a Hive tyrant can't deep strike is because they're super mega rules lawyering, they themselves don't have an awesome monstrous creature that can deep strike, or they don't think it's fair.

The tyrant can still mishap btw, its not overpowered to have it deep strike. It also has to upgrade to have Wings which costs 60, SIX-TEEEEEE points and I would think that they were intending it to be able to deep strike for that amount of points instead of JUST allowing it to gain 6 more inches in the movement phase. If it couldn't deep strike it would probably only cost 30-40 points in my opinion.

If DS is movement, then it is impossible to trigger a mishap as you will stop scattering 1 inch away from enemy models, impassible terrain, or the edge of the table.

RobPro wrote:If DS is movement, then it is impossible to trigger a mishap as you will stop scattering 1 inch away from enemy models, impassible terrain, or the edge of the table.

It's only voluntary movement that stops you from moving into any of those things. The Deep Strike scatter rules over-ride that.

I would say that Deep Striking would not count as movement for anything that isn't addressed in the rule itself. For example it specifically says they count as moving for shooting but if you had a special rule (i don't know that this exists) that says "if you move such and such or move at all" then this happens I would say that no you don't get that benefit.

It specifically states they "cannot move any further" and that it is a "Deep Trike move" - therefore it is a) movement and b) definitely still movement.

So Nos, since it is movement, what happens if a Unit Scatters over and past another unit, or starts it's DS in Terrain but scatters out of it?

Do you play as the unit Mishaping and taking DT even if in clear terrain?

So your argument against the *rules* stating it is movement is that you think it causes issues?

That's nto a rules argument, thats a "i think it causes problems" - which is similar to the "i dont like it" argument in valdiity.

@HiveFleetGoliath
No, I just really wanted to know. It's not a complicated or trick question... just "Is Deep Strike Movement"

@Gwar
BRB p95
Some units' special rules allow them to enter play via tunneling, teleportation, flying or some other extraordinary means...
This describes how the move is performed "via tunneling[which would be under the terrain], teleportation[effectively ignoring the terrain], flying[flying over the terrain] or some other extraordinary means".

BRB p95
If any of the models (or a single model in our case) cannot be deployed because:

they would land off the table,

in impassable terrain,

on top of a friendly model,

or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model,

something has gone wrong.

This quote, "because they would land", further supports that the 2D6 movement is ignoring the terrain by moving over it, hence "land"

Please don't derail the thread @Gwar, if you do not feel that Deep Strike is movement please say so and explain why.

After you scatter it and it lands within 1" of a unit etc. Then you roll the mishap chart after you move the minimum distance away from the obstacle.

I don't consider it movement, not unless you consider deploying movement.

I do, given that you deploy by moving on from resevres.

Or do you mean Deployment, which is a specific action?

Deep strike MOVE. Kind of obvious...

I personally would say no. Becuase the rulebook doesnt say it specifically that it is (im not into guessing). It only says when it takes place, and what you can do with it. Its also not listed in the movement section of the book. (please correct me if there is a deep strike reference in there, as I dont know where it is)

Why does it matter?

insaniak wrote:

RobPro wrote:If DS is movement, then it is impossible to trigger a mishap as you will stop scattering 1 inch away from enemy models, impassible terrain, or the edge of the table.

It's only voluntary movement that stops you from moving into any of those things. The Deep Strike scatter rules over-ride that.

Where do you get this voluntary movement bit? Even units falling back, which is not voluntary, must stay an inch away from enemy models.

This looks like a push-poll for the subject of Deepstriking on top of enemy models.

the model is moved, it is not moving itself, yes it is a form of movement, however deep strike allows the model to be placed "anywhere" blah blah blah, same old argument, etc...

they even clarify that the model may not move further, because the model is not moving itself, and they further clarify that they count as having moved themselves, even though they were moved and not in fact, moved themselves.

Yes and no.

Deep Striking, ie placing the model and scattering, is not movement, because movement is a clearly defined thing that does not include any of said actions. However, after the Deep Strike is completed, the unit counts as having moved.

RobPro wrote:Where do you get this voluntary movement bit? Even units falling back, which is not voluntary, must stay an inch away from enemy models.

By 'voluntary' I was referring to movement in which the player moves the models, as opposed to things like Deep Strike scattering, where the movement is entirely determined by the scatter dice.

Where does it define this "voluntary" vs. "involuntary" thing in the rulebook?

Most of us use a dictionary. It's not in the index at the back.

RobPro wrote:Where does it define this "voluntary" vs. "involuntary" thing in the rulebook?

It doesn't. I'm not sure what you're looking for, to be honest.

My point was simply that when moving models yourself, the 1" rule applies. When scattering models, it doesn't... because you're simply told to move models the distance shown in the scatter die and wear the consequences.

You are making distinctions which are not in the rulebook is the point I am trying to make.

It is in the rulebook, though. The normal movement rules forbid you from moving within 1" of an enemy model. The Deep Strike rules force you to move the full distance scattered, and detail the consequences of this movement taking you within 1" of an enemy model.

I realize I voted too swiftly in the poll. Sorry for messing with the results. I voted no, but that doesn't really reflect my position. To clarify:

I feel that Deep Striking is movement, essentially movement from some imaginary object to the table. To this end, "counted as moving", "may not move further", makes sense to me.

However, I do not interpret the act of placing a model (before scatter) as movement. The model is placed "where you want the unit to arrive". The unit has not actually moved there yet, you just mark where you want them, then roll for scatter. Once the rest of the unit is on the table, I would then consider the Deep Strike action completed, and therefore, the unit has moved. Basically I don't see anything before the final placement of the unit as movement.