Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, I just picked up 20 grey knight marines at a great price and have made up a horribly vanilla list though you might be able to help me put a bit more excitement in it.

here it is

GREY KNIGHT HERO

BROTHER CAPTAIN APOPHIS W/ PSYCHIC HOOD & PSYCANNON

ELITES

BROTHER CAPTAIN PHAEDON W/ PSYCANNON
TERMINATOR X 4
PSYCANNON X 1
LAND RAIDER CRUSADER W/ MULTIMELTA

INQUISITOR FROST W/ BOLTGUN
HEAVY BOLTER SERVITOR X2

TROOPS

GREY KNIGHT JUSTICAR
GREY KNIGHT MARINE X 9
INCINIRATOR X 2

GREY KNIGHT JUSTICAR
GREY KNIGHT MARINE X 9
PSYCANNON X 2

INQUISITORIAL STORMTROOPERS X 6
FLAMER X 2
RHINO W/ STORM BOLTER & SMOKE LAUNCHERS

INQUISITORIAL STORMTROOPERS X 6
PLASMA GUN X 1
MELTA GUN X 1
RHINO W/ STORM BOLTER & SMOKE LAUNCHERS

HEAVY SUPPORT

LAND RAIDER

I have Dreadnaught with t/l lascannon and missile launcher , a bunch more IST and a chimera plus a cadian battleforce all painted up but I feel the marines will give my army a lot more durability ( so sick of seeing my IG allies getting massacred!)

Thanks for any C&C!

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Well in the absence of any feedback I thought I might add a post about how this list played in the two games I managed to squeeze in on the last gaming club day...

...and abysmally is how it played, in both games the marines were cut to pieces. Whether it was my tactics ( highly likely) or my opponents skills ( definitely in one case , not so much in the other) or ultimately the fact that I was only able to field half as much troops as my opponents (most definitely!!!) the GK marines did not go well and I kind of missed my IG allies as they at least had a lot of flavour.
At this point I may cut down on the Marines as if I drop even 1 10 man unit I can put an entire Ig platoon in so I may run the list that way for a while if only till the new Inquisitor codex is released ( yes I live in hope)

C&C is welcome as always

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Just started up a GK army myselfand still in the process of getting them all painted, i think im sticking to an army with GK only without allies and see how i get on. I dont think i'll be adding any storm troopers either.

let me know how it goes thamor, my advice is to run a couple of land raiders for anti tank and troop protection or at least a dread with lascannons and missiles, just to poop enemie armour, its probably a straight GK armies biggest weakness

i love the fluff for grey knights but imho they work better for being allied into other armies then as a whole army themselves they are overcosted for what they do and other armies do it better plus most of there rules work only against demons.

The GK modus operandi is to fall back constantly while delivering a withering hail of storm-bolter fire, so when that horde finally arrives, it is 1/3 it's size.

This is problematic because you can't really use transports, and you have weak choices for anti-tank. Worse, you can't get enough large blast templates.

Allied SoB can bring meltas into the mix, and at a reasonable price. IG with allied GK can get every darn thing.

I agree that at the moment allied guard are the way to go, my list at the moment is basically and entire IG army with a squad of Deepstriking GK Termies.
My only hope is that a new inquisition codex will arrive by the end of the year and it will clear up a lot of the inconsistincies in the GK list, namely the lack of anti tank, lack of troop carriers, the cost of units and the fact that the best way to kill daemons is not to have fancy psyker powers that are incredibly conditional but to simply be hard arsed motherf@$kers who can stand up to raging demon princes and smack them upside the head. At the moment it's pretty sad to see nurgle termies stand up to, and beat, the supposed emporer's finest, the GK terminator.

Or maybe thats just me

I think if you're going to a Grey Knights only army make sure it's VERY well equipped. Grey Knights are costly on their own, so it's better to take a Terminator Squad and Land Raider, and be safe in the knowledge not much is gonna get to you, than take 2 squads of "nomal" Grey Knights and watch the wounds mount up.

Also if you're going to do Grey Knights you have to expect to be VERY outnumbered, so again the point stands. GREY KNIGHT TERMINATORS ONLY.

Seems good. Storm troopers are meh to me though.

@corennus - I go for termies too, but another point would be too keep them mobile and get them into every firefight you can, every shot counts and while they may be safe in their landraider they are also not taking down units. So don't be afraid to pop them out and get them boltin'.

@Samus - A) stormtroopers look cool and A) at the moment yes, for 10 points the are not exceptional but hopefully the new codex will give them the AP3 hot shot lasgun as opposed to the crap hellgun and they will be on par with the IG Stormtroopers. (I know, I am an eternal optimist when it comes to the new codex )

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Yeah my view exactly Blackhand. Get the Landraider as close to the enemy as you can, then have your Terminators spill out and destroy everything in sight.
Also, use them much more as CC than a simple gunline. They have Nemesis force weapons, use them.

My own take on your army list:

GREY KNIGHT HERO
Brother-Captain Apophis w/ psychic hood, Nemesis Sword and Psycannon.

ELITES

GREY KNIGHT TERMINATOR SQUAD PHAEDON
x 5 Terminators
x1 Psycannon

GREY KNIGHT TERMINATOR SQUAD COLCHIS
x 5 Terminators
x 1 Incinerator

TRANSPORT:

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER "RETRIBUTION"
Multi Melta
Storm Bolter

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER "EMPEROR'S WRATH"
Storm Bolter
Multi Melta

TROOPS

GREY KNIGHT SQUAD ANVILION
Justicar
x 9 Grey Knights

GREY KNIGHT SQUAD TORVILUS
Justicar
x 9 Grey Knights

GREY KNIGHT PURGATION SQUAD HONORUS
Justicar
x 4 Grey Knights
x 2 Incinerators
x 2 Psycannona


I don't have my Daemonhunters Codex to hand so i'm going to have to guesstimate the points cost:

Captain: 200

Terminator Squads: 230 x 2 460

Land Raider Redeemers: 260 x 2 520

Troops: 220 x 2 440
180x 1 180

TOTAL COST: 1800


Like to see that army tear into some daemons! Yes I KNOW the points are prob out!!!

Dude, Corennus... you rock! even if I don't use the list I'm taking the squad names!
Happily I've picked up enough PAGK anc GK termies lately that I could probably put the list together (cept for the redeemers)

Soon as I've played my IG in an upcoming tournament I'll start playtesting the GK list or something very close to it.

Cheers

BLACKHAND

Just to let you know, grey knights can't take redeemers as they're not in the codex. You shouldn't take them if you could anyway as you really don't want your knights getting up close and personal with anything really unless your sure you'll smash them.

Grey knights are not a close combat army! They're a shooting army with some counterattack potential. If I were you I'd take godhammer pattern raiders and use them for anti-tank fire, and to keep the knights safe. Only assault if you have to.

Check out some of the tactica here on dakka for better info, there's a very good one from bolter and chainsword that I used and found it very helpful.

Best of luck with them, you'll need it.

Mookie.

Shouldn't be much that can stand against 2 Land Raiders, and 2 Terminator squads with 3 Grey Knight squads backing them up.

I can jsut hear the "OH YES THERE IS" reply brewing....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. If we can't take the Redeemers let's take the normal landraiders!.

You'd have to probably lose the Heavy Support squad since the normal LR is 250 points whereas the Redeemer is 240.

Or just lose some of the psycannons.

Never take out psycannons!

Sorry I just hate losing 1 of the 2 (fricken 2!) special weapons that the GK can take, I mean they are only the emporer's most highly trained, psykickly gifted and deadliest warriors. lets restrict them to two special weapons that are only a heavy bolter aqnd flamer with no invun saves.. oh and only let them have 1 type of transport (admittadly the biggest) and none of the flavour and variety that even the most vanilla space marines have.... oh do I sound a little bitter?

I guess the fact that GW gave the coolest SM figures ( GK termies FTW!) some of the weakest rules still gets to me, sorry again, rant over

My only hope, and I know I've said this before, is that the new inquisition codex will have even a fraction of the cool toys and rules that the new SW and BA codexs got, but we will have to wait till the end of the year...or next year...or the year after


Oh yeah Corennus, not much could stand up to 2 LRs but often the sight of a couple on the table is so intimidating that they become instant fire magnets, getting nailed before they can knock out any enemy armour. Ive found that a dread with some long range gear can sneak under my opponent's radar and have a chance at closiing down some armour.. a chance .

Sorry for the wall of text guys, its just cool to get some feedback on the army lists forums for once!

Well hopefully when Codex: Inquisition comes out the Grey Knights will become what they are in the fiction. MONSTERS of Holy Inquisition Wrath!

Hmm well try taking Extra Armour for your Land Raiders, that may help stop them being shaken or stunned so easily.

The only other alternative is to ditch the Terminators and rely on more Grey Knight squads to try and bring more numbers to the table.

I only have a SM:Codex army and i'm REALLY loath to include tanks, cause I see them as magnets for the big guns, and not worth it.

Corennus wrote:Well hopefully when Codex: Inquisition comes out the Grey Knights will become what they are in the fiction. MONSTERS of Holy Inquisition Wrath!

Hmm well try taking Extra Armour for your Land Raiders, that may help stop them being shaken or stunned so easily.

The only other alternative is to ditch the Terminators and rely on more Grey Knight squads to try and bring more numbers to the table.

I only have a SM:Codex army and i'm REALLY loath to include tanks, cause I see them as magnets for the big guns, and not worth it.

gk landraiders have power of the machine spirit (the same one as vanilla marines ) so extra armour is a waste of points.speaking of landraiders , while they are good and hard to kill they can only bring so much fire to bearer and more than likely be destroyed by the end of the game so i wouldnt put all your hopes and dreams on them use them of what they are for smashing through enemy lines and delivering devestating assaults. with gk and gk termies being so horrendously overpriced points wise you almost have to run either stormtroopers or inducted guard with them just to midigate points

Well if I were using the army i'd listed i'd use the Land Raiders to smash into the enemy lines, then deploy the Terminators to fight right into the heart of the enemy as the Land Raiders provide heavy fire support.

The LRs probably woulnd't survive, but with Grey Knight squads backing them up they'd probably get a few good turns in before the dice overwhelm them. Hopefully.

I'll say it again, GREY KNIGHTS ARE NOT A CLOSE COMBAT ARMY! They really can't take on much in close combat. Initiative 4 is not enough to kill enemies effectively, most of the time you're going at the same time and will lose models as you can't kill the enemy fast enough. Fair enough you may win the combat overall but the knights are now under strength and going to struggle to perform well for the rest of the game.

I suggest standing back, with your squads sitting in land raiders while you take out enemy transports and long range anti-tank threats with the lascannons. Force the enemy to come to you to try and crack you with melta, then counter charge with the grey knights (making sure to shoot up the target squad first to maximise chances of success).

Thats why you need the godhammer pattern raiders, to bring much needed anti-tank to a list with very few at options.

I recently played in a tournament using 1500pts of grey knights. I took 3 Land raiders, as this was the only way to bring enough anti-tank and protect my far too squishy grey knights at the same time. Use inducted guard with chimeras to capture objectives and provide anti-personel fire.

I'll post the list I used on request.

Mookie

Don't worry Mookie Blaylock, Corennus is just channelling the Grey Knight lovin'.

But I will second your claim.

Grey Knights were the original 'Water Warriors'. They have both shooting skill and combat prowess, but expensive and still 'just' MEQ or TEQs. So there is much finesse that goes with running with a heavy Grey Knight list.
You need to apply them appropriately and in most cases it's to shoot as much as you can, then charge in when you have no choice or (as Mookie has said) are likely to win that combat on your own terms.

Godhammer Equipped Land Raiders are the staple...while Purgation Squads are full of poop if you do not run with Inducted troop choices or Inq Storm Troopers.

Let's hope that they become more Close Combat oriented.

After all what's the point of having Nemesis Force Weapons if you're just going to stand around shooting your storm bolters.

And can somebody explain Godhammer Land Raider to me? I haven't read my DH Codex in a while...

I know what he's up to Sanctjud, I tried to convince myself for ages that grey knights could be used as an assault army to stomp people and I had to find out the hard way that they're just not good enough. Hopefully they'll get a new codex someday that'll make them more playable.

I love playing with my knights though as you've really got to think about every decision. There is no "point and click" list with them and every game is a challenge, and therefore more rewarding when you win (or don't get absolutely smashed).

Again I suggest reading the grey knight tacticas on the net, there are some really great ones out there. The "Water Warriors" one you mentioned is fantastic but needs some changes for fifth Ed.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/SO_YOU_WANNA_PLAY_PURE_GREY_KNIGHTS:_a_tactica_for_the_masochistic

Heres one of the tacticas from dakka, not the same author as the water warrior, but its quite good. it should help to level out the normally steep learning curve with this army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Corennus

Godhammer pattern Land Raider is just the fancy name for the reagular land Raider with the twin linked lascannons. It is in my opinion the best land raider for the grey knights as it allows them some fairly good anti-tank fire from a solid distance.

Personally, I'd like to see grey knights remain as a more shooting orientated army but get a much better counter attack potential, or reducing the cost of the troops. (especially the justicars, 50pts is a joke for one wound).

Mookie.

Hmm interesting. I'm a very gun oriented army kinda guy. Reduce the enemy's numbers so much when shooting that by the time they get to you there's only a few to mop up.

Now against hordes like Orks / Tyranids / Daemons you just have to hold on and pray your shooting is good enough to whittle them down.

Only reason I didn't start doing Grey Knights army was they're not normally in stores, and being all metal were damned expensive!!

As far as I know the range has been removed from the shelves (including GW's site) hopefully this means that there getting an update soon and not getting squatted.

Try some of the internet stores to see if they've any in stock, but yeah, metals expensive but the models rock.

Mookie.

Hopefully they're going to be plastic models. SO much easier to do. And much more individual, if less detailed..

Plastic would'nt be bad, I'd like them to get a bit bigger too. The metal ones are actually slightly smaller than the plastic marines.

Hopefully the termies if done in plastic will look identical to the ones at present as they're some of the best models in that range.

They will be a rip off though.

Mookie.

The plastics will come eventually, if only because people want them as conversion fodder.

Take the BA sanguinary guard for example, the kit comes with so much extra peices its basically made for conversions.

Part of the reason the metals look smaller is that they don't have the cowling behind the head that normal termies have but they make up for it by being Fricken Cool.

About the LRs, I take a godhammer for its lascannons and a crusader for its hurricane bolters (termies love assualting after a hurricane barrage!) but I ALWAYS forget about it's machine spirit! I take the extra BS2 shots but I forhet about the self repair ( they do get self repair like marine rhinos right?)

Tactics wise I have been using allied guard to plug some of the gaps in the GK list but the hope of this thread was to find a way to make a useful list for a pure GK army, which seems to be to wait till the new codex!

Oh and thanks for the link Mookie I've seen the thread before and it helped a lot with my list building, I always like to get some input from the dakka brain trust too though

Dont forget that the grey knights get the good machine spirt, using there BS of 4. But they don't get the self-repair rule, only rhinos (not sure if inquisitorial ones get it though). You can check the FAQ,
here.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180153_Daemonhunters_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

If you're taking allied guard, I'd suggest giving them chimeras as it greatly increases their survivability, firepower and manouverability (Spell Check??) I found them a great help for my list.

No bother with the link, they're a tough enough army to play with it, not to mind without. Let us know how the list works out for ya.

Mookie.

This might be digging up a slightly stale thread but I have to do this.

If your considering playing Grey Knights, there is one thing you must do in my opinion. Read The way of the water warrior by silent requiem.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=101214

Also, on the redeemer thing, in imperial armour apocalypse 2, there is a datasheet for a grey knight redeemer with flamestorm incinorators and psycannons as well as psyk-out grenade launchers which give you I 10 on the charge. It might be worth looking at if your going into an apocalypse match.

Sounds awesome.