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Would you rather field 6 Hive Guard and 3 Zoanthropes, or 3 Hive Guard and 6 Zoanthropes?

I think this is not army list thread because it lacks a armylist (ie its needed to tell you if hive guard or zoanthropes)

1000 pts: 2x2 hive guard + 2 zoanthropes
1500 pts: 3 hive guard + 2x2 zoanthropes + a little more antitank like one monster
2000 pts: 3 hive guard + 2x3 zoanthropes + some additional monsters for further anittank

Tactica?

Hive guard are good for taking out tough troops and light armour. Zoanthropes are better for tough armour and cracking power armour open.

Which would you choose for a list where you don't know who you're facing?

Depends how the metagame is in your area. Do people play with a lot of infantry or mech lists? Thoug, tbh, zoanthropes imo can deal with both better than a hive guard because they have the blast template and also have lance shot while the guard just are multiple s8 ap4 weapons.

I have to disagree. Hive guard are totally awesome.

I didn't say they wasn't "totally awesome" did I? If you read I said it depends on his local meta game and zoanthropes can deal with infantry better (ap3 blast) and vehicles (lance ap1).

Hive guard don't have any of that stuff.

mercer wrote:I didn't say they wasn't "totally awesome" did I? If you read I said it depends on his local meta game and zoanthropes can deal with infantry better (ap3 blast) and vehicles (lance ap1).

Hive guard don't have any of that stuff.

But they do rely on making psychic tests, so have effectively lower BS, have no useful range and get shut down by hoods and other psychic defense.

Regwon wrote:

mercer wrote:I didn't say they wasn't "totally awesome" did I? If you read I said it depends on his local meta game and zoanthropes can deal with infantry better (ap3 blast) and vehicles (lance ap1).

Hive guard don't have any of that stuff.

But they do rely on making psychic tests, so have effectively lower BS, have no useful range and get shut down by hoods and other psychic defense.

And that's what he means by the metagame, what kind of opponents he is facing most of the time.

Where Hoods do have an unfavorable effect against Nids, they're not a complete game stopper, rolls aren't always going to go his way. And why not aim for that unit/model in an attempt to clear that Hood off the table? *shrug* Just seems like way to much attention paid to the block and not that it's an attempt to foil the psychic attacks, it's not an all or nothing solution, he can fail. Not to mention it can be defeated and leave the table and then the rest of the game you get to wrap the Hive Mind powers around the opponent unhindered by the pesky anti-psyker elements.

Now if he's running SW with 4 Rune Priests...yeah you're probably boned. But if not and running a standard SM list, at most he'll have 2 and that's really at the higher point levels where you should be able to at least take 1 off the table before turn 6.

Just my thoughts.

I think 2x 3 hive guard and 1x 3 zoanthropes. The zoanthropes are only necessary to kill AV 14. They don't do it very reliable because of psychic tests, hoods / runes of warding and a short range. However, they are necessary as you need SOMETHING to crack AV 14.

2 units of zoanthropes are redundant, since their main purpose is killing AV 14. Hive guard are much better for other armor values due to reliability and toughness.

However, the hive guard absolutely rock at light armor killing have a great effective range and don't need line of sight. Additionally, they are reliable. They can also put the hurt on MC's pretty effectively even if they are getting an armor save.

I'm with leenus. Besides, if the opponent has an =I= psychic hood, it literally halves the effectiveness of the zoans. The hive guard put down their targets more reliably, and unless you are up against landraider-spam, you shouldn't need a bunch of AV14-defeating units.

I agree with lenus too. But i think you really need mix of both. It just depends which unit twice. Or you could always take doom of malahtai (but that is not that antitankinsh)

Regwon wrote:

mercer wrote:I didn't say they wasn't "totally awesome" did I? If you read I said it depends on his local meta game and zoanthropes can deal with infantry better (ap3 blast) and vehicles (lance ap1).

Hive guard don't have any of that stuff.

But they do rely on making psychic tests, so have effectively lower BS, have no useful range and get shut down by hoods and other psychic defense.

Eh? I said METAGAME. So depends if opponents take psykers, ones I play against don't so that's no worries and hoods aren't a game end for zoans anyway.

Eh? Zoanthropes and hive guard have the same ballistic skill, failing a psychic test doesn't affect the BS at all. Also have you ever heard of myceptic spores? Use them to close in the range, but doesn't a impaler cannon have 24" same as a warp lance any way......think about it