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I was updating Army Builder to V3.2D and just noticed they are putting Ads in the update screen as seen below:



Why are they expecting us to pay a yearly fee for using their products but still give us ads? Has anyone else noticed these ads?

Thanks,
BuZzZzJaY

I saw them too. My reaction wasn't "why are they sticking ads in there?" It was more "Man, Battlefoam is everywhere."

Interesting choice....

I am not concerned. If they start dumping ads in my list (especially the print-outs) then they are toast but if the ads are in things like the set-up wizard or the update list it isn't horrible. Especially if they are for products or things that have to do with the hobby. If it wasn't for Battle Foam ads I wouldn't have any and there are a lot of mini's, tools, paints, etc. that I would never have been exposed to if not for ads on the web or in gaming magazines.

I would rather see them add a few ads and keep the price down. I am pretty sure they are not getting rich off of Army Builder (I haven't seen them on Cribs ). And, even if they were making gold, more power to them. I like the product and I think the price is within reason. Nobody made me buy it.

On the subject of army builder, how good/quick are they at fixing errors?

It was charging me 15pts to change a loota/burna boy to a mek when it should be free.

Army Builder doesn't have anything to do with the data files. The Warhammer 40k data files are maintained by a dedicated group of volunteers. You can file a bug report with them.

Are you sure it's just not adding an additional Loota? Sometimes it behaves like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: Yeah, it's just adding an additional body to the mob; I just tested it out.

I see the ad. Interestingly I've only seen it once out of the 5 or 6 times I've opened the updater. The rest of the time I get the tell a friend banner. I don't think it's bad, and that's coming from someone who won't browse the internet without a slew of ad-blocking utilities. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it to come up again, otherwise I'd wireshark it and find out where the banner is coming from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, looks like it's coming straight from the lonewolfdevel.com site. Direct link to it is http://www.lonewolfdevel.com/announcements/10_Battlefoam600x100.bmp . I was hoping they had a separate domain set up for the ads so that it could just be blocked via hostname, but no such luck. Long as they don't become overbearing or include ads anywhere else, I have no problems with it. I have no idea what their profit margins are for such things, but I know that multiple people I know would probably be interested in a fully ad-subsidized version of the software, long as they kept the paid version as it is.

Lorek wrote:Army Builder doesn't have anything to do with the data files. The Warhammer 40k data files are maintained by a dedicated group of volunteers. You can file a bug report with them.

Are you sure it's just not adding an additional Loota? Sometimes it behaves like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: Yeah, it's just adding an additional body to the mob; I just tested it out.

Ah, that'll teach me to look more closely. :embarrarsed face goes here:

Cheers.

if everything else that has happened on the internet is an indication, the ads will get more prevalent over time and worse... perhaps popup or animated. if they're charging for a yearly service, there should be NO ads. period. if they want to throw in some ads, then they should offer you an opt out or a discount to your yearly fee.

I don't pay an annual fee.
Know what that means?
It means my AB software doesn't notify me that there are updates. I have to go look for them manually.

That's all that annual fee gets you.

Eric

Magickal:

I thought the same thing, until I saw the 3.2 upgrade. Had to buy LOL.

yeah, i thought the program shuts down to demo mode if you don't have a current subscription.

edit: unless you're using the old 2.x version of the program from way back when. then you're fine.

Yearly subscription?? I would never pay for an annual fee unless it's a web-based software and hosting the lists for me online.

First, if it is an ad just in the update window, that's no big deal to me. I look at that window maybe 1% of the times I use the program? To me it is very similar to seeing banner ads for a server when you connect to Team Fortress or Counter-strike online servers.

As for the subscription topic...

Ozymandias wrote:Yearly subscription?? I would never pay for an annual fee unless it's a web-based software and hosting the lists for me online.

My understanding is that the "subscription" just gets you access to updates of the Army builder program itself. This is actually a fairly common model in commercial software. You buy a license and you get hotfixes and patches for free indefinitely and you get major updates free for one year. After that if you want major updates you pay again. If you don't want to pay, then you just keep the full version that you already have. The actual army data files, as mentioned earlier, are free and maintained by a dedicated group of 40k players.

EDIT: to clarify, the small releases (3.2b, 3.2c, 3.2d, etc.) are free. When they come out with version 3.3, you will either need to have paid in the last year or pay again (is my understanding).

Spacemanvic wrote:Magickal:

I thought the same thing, until I saw the 3.2 upgrade. Had to buy LOL.

Okay.
The version prior, though, is still valid with current files (it's the version I run)

warboss wrote:yeah, i thought the program shuts down to demo mode if you don't have a current subscription.

edit: unless you're using the old 2.x version of the program from way back when. then you're fine.

Not at all.

Eric

warboss wrote:if they're charging for a yearly service, there should be NO ads. period. if they want to throw in some ads, then they should offer you an opt out or a discount to your yearly fee.

I agree 100%. If you pay for a service then you're paying to get rid of those ads.

Ads on a free site (like Dakka) make sense, that's fine. But they need to either ditch the ads or make Army Builder free.

Sidstyler wrote:

warboss wrote:if they're charging for a yearly service, there should be NO ads. period. if they want to throw in some ads, then they should offer you an opt out or a discount to your yearly fee.

I agree 100%. If you pay for a service then you're paying to get rid of those ads.

Ads on a free site (like Dakka) make sense, that's fine. But they need to either ditch the ads or make Army Builder free.

They can't make it free, they needs that revenue to pay the lawyers that advise them how to best threaten internet communities that allow people to use the words "army" and "builder" together sequentially in the same sentence...

Jeez, they have a legal requirement to defend the registered trademark they own, can't we just let that go?

and yes, if you're going to charge for a product it should be 100% ad free.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Jeez, they have a legal requirement to defend the registered trademark they own, can't we just let that go?

and yes, if you're going to charge for a product it should be 100% ad free.

I thought the same thing. Then I got cable TV.

But yeah, I also agree, since I paid for AB, I dont wanna see no stinkin' ads. They are now getting a revenue stream from 2 sources. Not that thats illegal, just seems like bad form, unless this is the direction that software is going to (much like the aforementioned cable TV subscription).

For goodness sake, does it really freaking matter? Does it slow the app? Do the ads prevent the normal functionality or the application? If no, then just ignore them. Do you really care that LWD has decided to put a, what I can only assume, relatively minor revenue screen on a window that is looked at only a few times year?

The internet, the best place to make mountains outa molehills.

SPARKEYG wrote:For goodness sake, does it really freaking matter? Does it slow the app? Do the ads prevent the normal functionality or the application? If no, then just ignore them. Do you really care that LWD has decided to put a, what I can only assume, relatively minor revenue screen on a window that is looked at only a few times year?

it's kind of a 'slippery slope' thing. A lot of people really don't want their computing experience to look like a NASCAR car, covered with sponsor decals. The Mac OS community, for example, tends to be really sensitive about this kind of thing. A lot of developers are even against the old concept of the 'splash screen' in applications, as it's a kind of unwanted ostentatious display. An application is a tool, not an advertising platform. Of course, there's no Mac Army Builder, so those communities probably don't have a massive overlap.

Personally I could deal with it. It's less annoying, to me, than Army Builder's use of non-standard widgets for no real gain. But again, that's just me.

SPARKEYG wrote:For goodness sake, does it really freaking matter? Does it slow the app? Do the ads prevent the normal functionality or the application? If no, then just ignore them. Do you really care that LWD has decided to put a, what I can only assume, relatively minor revenue screen on a window that is looked at only a few times year?

The internet, the best place to make mountains outa molehills.

Well since you put it like that , DO you want to pay to see adverts ? or would you make a payment to not see adverts ?

I find it repugnant that they charge as much as they do for a simple program that doesn't look that clean or streamlined AND uses data files created for free. For $50 I can enjoy a top notch game with fantastic graphics for for $30+ I can buy this shoddy little program that is still buggy well into its 3rd generation. Compound that with ads and I'm even more happy I use an excel spreadsheet or just pen and paper.

FYI, the Alice 40k spreadsheets create much snazzier looking printed listst than AB does while having the units separated by unit type. I use the Tau sheet and have no problems at all.

My 2 cents.

Agnosto:

Have you actually tried it? I have it, and it looks clean, streamlined and works way better than any of the wrecks of free "spread sheet" lists Ive seen thus far on the internet. But please, if you know of a free spreadsheet that is better, feel free to post the link.

@Spacemanvic,
I've tried it at my FLGS and wasn't too impressed. I especially didn't like the printed product that wastes a great deal of paper.

I know AB does all your thinking for you but the spreadsheets do the job as long as you know your army well enough.

So by that logic, when you guys go to a movie and pay $10 admission but then see ads for Mountain Dew or whatever before the movie starts, do you leave and demand a refund?

If ads, especially unobtrusive ads, keep the license fee from increasing, then gimmie ads.

ubermosher wrote:So by that logic, when you guys go to a movie and pay $10 admission but then see ads for Mountain Dew or whatever before the movie starts, do you leave and demand a refund?

If ads, especially unobtrusive ads, keep the license fee from increasing, then gimmie ads.

Apples and oranges. I'm not paying $30 for a movie and if I want, I can watch the movie on DVD and have 0 ads. If they're going to advertise, they should charge less. Now they've just joined the ranks of adware.

Agnosto:
Its not so much doing all the "thinking" for you, but I find it's presentation value appealing as well as its ability to keep you honest (in so far as the data file is correct). Im tired of the pen and paper lists that "forget" to take into account the cost of things. Also, you can manipulate the printout to not waste paper (since I pay for the paper in my house, it's something Im very frugal about).

Also if you really want to save paper, there is a feature in the new AB that allows you to send the results to your iPhone for games on the road.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ubermosher:
If adds keep the cost of the software down, then Im all for it. My update subscription only cost me $27 or so, and I get to install it on two computers work (my main computer and the laptop I walk around with).

Now if they only made one for linux...

agnosto wrote:
Apples and oranges. I'm not paying $30 for a movie and if I want, I can watch the movie on DVD and have 0 ads. If they're going to advertise, they should charge less. Now they've just joined the ranks of adware.

I understand what you're saying. My point is that ads before movies keep that $10 ticket from being a $15 ticket (at least that's what the industry says). I'm saying that if an unobtrusive ad keeps a product I enjoy (YMMV) $30 and not $40, then I'm all for it. I'm arguing that because of the ad, you are likely paying less.

Key term is unobtrusive. A banner on the update screen doesn't bother me. For a product I paid for, if an ad pops up when I try to add a unit to my roster that I have to manually close... then I too have a problem. But it's not the case, and I think vehemently crying foul over the banner ad is overreacting.

Balance wrote:

SPARKEYG wrote:For goodness sake, does it really freaking matter? Does it slow the app? Do the ads prevent the normal functionality or the application? If no, then just ignore them. Do you really care that LWD has decided to put a, what I can only assume, relatively minor revenue screen on a window that is looked at only a few times year?

it's kind of a 'slippery slope' thing. A lot of people really don't want their computing experience to look like a NASCAR car, covered with sponsor decals. The Mac OS community, for example, tends to be really sensitive about this kind of thing. A lot of developers are even against the old concept of the 'splash screen' in applications, as it's a kind of unwanted ostentatious display. An application is a tool, not an advertising platform. Of course, there's no Mac Army Builder, so those communities probably don't have a massive overlap.

Personally I could deal with it. It's less annoying, to me, than Army Builder's use of non-standard widgets for no real gain. But again, that's just me.

Slippery Slope is a fallacy. If they put more ads than this then maybe one would have reason to discuss it w/ the developers otherwise why waste the energy?

Tauzor wrote:

SPARKEYG wrote:For goodness sake, does it really freaking matter? Does it slow the app? Do the ads prevent the normal functionality or the application? If no, then just ignore them. Do you really care that LWD has decided to put a, what I can only assume, relatively minor revenue screen on a window that is looked at only a few times year?

The internet, the best place to make mountains outa molehills.

Well since you put it like that , DO you want to pay to see adverts ? or would you make a payment to not see adverts ?

Since I would only see the adverts in limited contexts, I really don't care.