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I have been under the impression that 2000 points was standard so I have posted a few topics of some army lists of that size. However, some of my friends have corrected me and now I am making an 1850 point list. Please post any suggestions or comments.

Captain - 165
relic blade
bike

Command Squad - 310
company standard
company champion
bikes
3 meltaguns
3 storm shields

x3 Tactical Squads - 215 each
plasma gun
heavy bolter
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 490
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi-melta

x2 Predators - 120 each
side sponson lascannons

Looks good to me - get a game with it and tell us how it went. Id go with flamers and missile launchers in the Tacticals - or at least missile launchers.

Pretty basic isn't it? The only problem is that you don't really need the command squad.

Drop the Comand Squad and take a full unit of Bikes with 2 Meltas and a MM attack Bike, Power fist on the sgt:310 points: scoring unit.

Drop the Chainsword on your Sgts; your tac squads are kitted for firing don't lose the extra bolter

Do you have 6 Terminators? the points suggest this but you failed to indicate it.

Yes, there are 6 terminators. How is this?

Captain - 165
relic blade
bike

x3 Tactical Squads - 215 each
plasma gun
heavy bolter
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 490
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad - 310
powerfist (sergeant)
2 meltaguns
Attack Bike w/ multi-melta

x2 Predators - 120 each
side sponson lascannons

I think with the changes it's a pretty good list. I second the idea you go out and give it a try. I think it's got a good mix of quick moving vehicle pen, roving firebases, decent wound count, a land raider with termies for assault, preds for fire support.

Definitely speaks an Ultramarines chapter 1850 as it has most of the elements the codex can bring cohesively. I think smurfs, I think balance.

When I first started making lists, I was drawn to the librarian and the sternguard but eventually phased them out. However, I've made yet another list that I feel I must post to compare to the other.

Librarian - 190
Epistolary
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 215 each
plasma gun
heavy bolter
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 450
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi-melta

Sternguard Veteran Squad - 325
8 combi-weapons
Rhino

x2 Predators - 120 each
side sponson lascannons

The Lib doesn't really need all that stuff. But he is a better HQ, make sure you take null zone.

He has the terminator armor and storm shield because he is going to be with the assault terminators. I will absolutely be taking null zone and I was thinking of might of the ancients. Any suggestions?

Avenger is also very good. Use him with the Terminators if you want, but I'm afraid he might be in too much danger if you do that. At least keep in away from base to base with PFs.

Heavy Bolters aren't as good as missile launchers.

Make sure to take Null Zone on your Libby

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, The Avenger)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 230 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
power sword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 450
2 thunder hammers and storm shields
3 pairs of lightning claws
Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi-melta

x3 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

Predator - 120
side sponson lascannons

x2 Vindicators - 125 each
siege shield

Drop the Heavy bolters on the tac squads for missile launchers otherwise that is a very strong start off list. Could do with more melta, but other than that the 2nd list posted looks pertty strong.

Actually the final list looks pretty solid too. The only issue is for some reason you've given some of your Terminators LCs which is a total waste. Why have you done that when you got it so right before going all TH/SS?

LCs will hurt your Terminators twice firstly they'll not do enough damage against the targets your Termmie should be facing (MCs, Nob bikers, Deathstar units) and 2nd they'll die nice an quick to power weapon attacks and low AP shots. LCs only help you against Hordes which given the high points cost to attacks ratio and lack of sweeping advance your Terminators wikll still suck against. hordes are the one thing you want to keep your termmie away from so why kit them out to fight them?

And the final thing is PW are pretty useless on Tac squads. PFs are good they can ID ICs and give your squad real pnch in CC which can deter attackers. The power weapon will fail to wound far too often and is not worth the points. Either go with the PFs (I always would) or don't bother and keep him with a bolter or give him a storm bolter/combi weapon.

In the last list you don't nee dthe plasmas in the squads as you have the Vindicators for TEQ/MEQ a flamers or two and melta guns would be better used. Melta would be my advice as at the moment you only have 1 unit that is a threat to AV13-14 (those Preds should be firing at AV10-12 and MCs).

The reduced initiative was worrying me about the th/ss terminators. That is why I considered lightning claws. How is this?

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Might of the Ancients)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 240 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
power fist (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 440
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider Redeemer

x3 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

Thunderfire Cannon - 100

x2 Vindicators - 125 each
siege shield

The reduced initiative was worrying me about the th/ss terminators. That is why I considered lightning claws. How is this?

Yeah you strike last but with a 2+/3++ save is that a huge loss? As I said you want them fighting Nob bikers MCs and other suopper tough elites where causing ID or wounding T6 on a 2+ is far more important than going first likewise the 3++ save is far more useful than striking first too.

Not sure the libby really requires might as you should have enough strength from the rest of the squad Avenger or smite or Vortex would be a powers, giving the squad some ranged attacks.

The last list now has no where near enough AT fire power. Those 3 ABs can get nailed by just 3 krak missiles.

Go back to the previous list but change the Tac squad plasmas for meltaguns (for at least 1 squad if not all). Keep the MM on the Redeemer and give all the Terminators Hammers.

That list would be balanced and competitive.

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Smite)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 240 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
power fist (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 460
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta

x3 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

Thunderfire Cannon - 100

x2 Vindicators - 115 each

Bump. I was also thinking I could drop the two vindicators for two more thunderfire cannons and give all of my tactical squads lascannons.

I might be wrong, but how are thunderfires good? I mean, if you really need a infantry unit dead, can't you just focus fire on it with more reliable units like preds or whatever instead of taking a excessively fragile pseudo-infantry target? it just seems like a one trick pony that isn't even really necessary in a well-built list.

also, in that last list, utopia, do you plan to combat squad the marines? I personally think if you're going to use rhinos, you really ought to be using melta, but that's just me.

The thunderfire cannons seem pretty good. 60" inch range. Heavy 4, Blast. Varying ammunition from ignores cover saves to tremor. I will combat squad based on my opponent and their force.

What would you suggest I replace the thunderfire cannon with?

I suggest land speeders with a heavy flamer, or heavy bolter and heavy flamer.

My fast attack is already maxed out with the attack bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is this?

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Smite)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 240 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
power fist (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 475
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta and extra armor

x3 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

Whirlwind - 85

x2 Vindicators - 115 each

Any other suggestions or comments? I noticed that for the 85 points a whirlwind costs, I could get a predator with side sponson heavy bolters.

Take the predator over the whirlwind every time. Do the math, and even if you get a good hit with the whirlwind, you're going to do the same amount of wounds. The pred can do this with just straight shots, and you don't have to rely on the finicky scatter die. It's also amour 13 in the front. I would actually take them over the vindicators as well. With cover being so ubiquitous, the predators will again do about the same amount of damage consistently, and they are cheaper, and have longer range.

I really really don't like the tactical squad's setup. I think powerfists are a waste on tactical marines that can just use combat tactics to get out of combat and shoot again. Tacticals suck in close combat, and paying 25 points for your sarge to do .86 wounds (statistically) isn't going to save your butt anyway.

And because you took powerfists I'm guessing you wanted them to be pushing into midfield. If you're doing this, take a multimelta. If you take 3 tac squads with multimeltas in rhinos, you can drive up 12" into midfield first turn, and then have a lot of board control every turn after that. Nobody wants to come within 12" of a multimelta. lol. The ap1 does a lot more than you'd think.

With the points you save I would take MM/HF speeders over the attack bikes. They can threaten both infantry and tanks very well, and they can movement block your opponent much more effectively.

I really don't like the idea of just one land raider in 1850-2000 point games because its just too easy for your opponent to immobilize, outmanuever, or just generally make it ineffective. But at 1850, dual raider is going to be very very tight... Are you completely married to the idea of the land raider? I know its fun to have your unit of smashy smashyness.. but most people at least have a few meltas to deal with it. I just think that for the points... MM/HF dreads get you almost the same amount of combat effectiveness, and you have more targets. Two twin linked autocannon dreads are also nice if you prefer more long ranged support. But again.. this is if you aren't completely married to the land raider. (I just think the dreads are a better option, unless you can drop enough to fit 2 land raiders full of termies in)

How is this?

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Smite)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 230 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino w/ extra armor

Terminator Assault Squad - 475
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta and extra armor

x3 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

x3 Vindicators - 115 each


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or...

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Smite)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 215 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 460
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta

x6 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

x3 Predators - 85 each
side sponson heavy bolters

Ugh, I had a nice response but my internet went out so here is the abbreviated version with the flashy rhetoric.

1) I like the second list better; the higher rate of fire and 6 attack bikes to guarantee you kill AV.

2)Stop giving the sergeant useless CC weapons. the bolter is most effective.

3) That LR is a crusader pattern, right? It better be. Which one? I'm not sure cause I don't run them but I like the redeemer on paper.

Redeemers are very good, but if they get immobilized they are horrible. It's a trade off thing, also you can move and fire all your weaponry on a Crusader

I understand your point about the sergeants. Honestly, I took the chainswords primarily to distinguish the sergeant model from regular space marines. When I was considering powerfists, they would still have had the bolter, not the bolt pistol. As far as the LR is concerned, it is the regular pattern with tl lascannons.

Utopias Astartes wrote:
Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Smite)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 215 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
chainsword (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 460
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta

x6 Attack Bikes - 50 each
multi-melta

x3 Predators - 85 each
side sponson heavy bolters

A solid list.

Unnecessary invest on libby. He is as twice cost of normal one. Could he more survivable than 2 libbys? No.

Drop some upgrades for him and you can upgrade some AB to speeders, they could help you dealing with hordes better.

Of the last two lists and the one below, which one do you guys like the most?

Librarian - 190
Epistolary (Null Zone, Gate of Infinity)
terminator armor
storm shield

x3 Tactical Squads - 240 each
plasma gun
missile launcher
power fist (sergeant)
Rhino

Terminator Assault Squad - 460
thunder hammers and storm shields
Land Raider w/ multi-melta

x3 Land Speeders - 70 each
multi-melta
heavy flamer

x3 Predators - 85 each
side sponson heavy bolters

I was thinking I could replace one of the Predators with a Whirlwind for the barrage. Also, I have 15 points left. I could make the Rhinos into Razorbacks. What do you think?