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Are IG platoons counted as a single KP for the whole platoon? I believe Ive seen the question ehre before, but I asked the Ard boys Tournie runner at my local store whether or not he would deem plattons as a single KP, or an indivual KP for each unit in the Platoon, and he said he would think about it and look in the rules and make a decision.

I cant seem to find anything STATING RAW IG platoons squad members are separate units( and thus 1KP per unit). What do you guys think?

Kill points are awarded for each enemy unit destroyed.

What have you found anywhere in your codex that specifically tells you that a platoon is one unit?

You get a KP point for reducing a unit bellow half strength too. but if the whole unit is wiped out thats a single KP. You dont get a Kill point for each model in the unit that was killed.

You do not get a kill point for reducing a unit to below half strength. The unit has to be completely destroyed. Check page 91 of the rule book.

If units are deployed together in a platoon they are counted as a single KP.

A single unit is worth only 1 KP. Look at the Force organisation page covering infantry platoons it states that they are counted as a single troop choice.

Sucks... the KP itself is not a good system.

It counts as a single troop choice for deployment, but this has nothing to do with kill points because it doesn't say that the platoon counts as one "unit".

Kill points specifically state that each "unit" destroyed gives one kill point.

Infantry squads however (not platoon command squads or special or heavy weapon squads) can use the special rule "combine" to group themselves into one unit which yes will then offer only one kill point when destroyed. Those combined forces must then act like a unit however (i.e. coherency, firing etc).

Codex IG doesn't explicitly state this because it assumes that you already know this, but every squad in an infantry platoon is a separate unit. The combined squad special rule doesn't make a lick of sense if they aren't. Kill points are by unit, not by slot. There is nothing odd whatsoever about there being multiple kill points in a single slot. Dedicated transports do that too, as do characters with retinues (explicitly stated within the rules for annihilation), Space Marine combat squads, drone squadrons detached from Tau vehicles, Death Cult Assassins, Daemonhosts, Tomb Spyders, and many other things.

A single choice does not mean a single unit.

Lets say you have a platoon with the following:

PCS

3x platoon infantry squads

3x heavy weapons squads.

By default this platoon is worth 7 kps. The rulebook definition for "unit" is pretty vague, but as the heavy weapons squads and PCS are individual entities, they are individual units. The same way that a tac squad and its rhino are two separate units, despite being purchased from the same FOC.

However, the guard codex gives you a tool to combine infantry squads. This is beneficial in multiple ways, but for the purposes of this discussion it has one major role to play: it reduces the number of KPs that can be earned from your infantry squads from 3 to 1.

Ealiom wrote:If units are deployed together in a platoon they are counted as a single KP.

A single unit is worth only 1 KP. Look at the Force organisation page covering infantry platoons it states that they are counted as a single troop choice.

Sucks... the KP itself is not a good system.

Wrong, please check the rules more carefully before posting., *especally* when others have posted the correct ruels before you.

1 Unit = 1 KP
1 Choice /= 1 KP, unless they *also* consist of a single unit.

IG Platoons are the latter. So are dedicated transports.

A Combined Squad only gives up a single kill point. The Combined Squads special rule in the Infantry Squad entry on page 37 of the Imperial Guard Codex states:

"If you decide to form any squads into larger units, then they are of course treated as a single unit from that point."

It's not about troop choices or 'slots' or anything else, it's all about units. A destroyed unit surrenders a single kill point. The Combined Squad is explicitly defined as being a single unit for the rest of the game, therefore the Combined Squad only surrenders a single kill point.

UNITS give KPs. You can have multiple units in a single FOC slot. All good.

So, since this question has been resolved, I'm gonna ask another.

What about upgrade Special Characters? A Veteran squad with Harker is two different selections from the army list in one FOC slot. Is it two different units, just like a Tac squad and Rhino?

Harker is not a unit and thus does not give up a kill point. He is an simply an upgrade for a unit, replacing the unit's normal Sergeant. The fact that he is a seperate 'selection' with his own entry has no bearing on the rules at all. If he was an Independant Character it would be different, but he ain't.

Transports give up a kill point because the rules explicilty state that they do. AFAIK nowhere do the rules state that characters bought to replace a normal squad member/leader give up a kill point.

----

My own question is, how many kill points does a Platoon Command or Company Command squad give up? I always assumed it would only be 1, as they are a single unit, but I'm sure I read in an IG FAQ somewhere that they give up 2 kill points (1 for the Independant Character and 1 for his retinue). I'll be damned if I can find it now though.

This always seemed strange to me because neither the Company Commander or Platoon Commander have the Independent Character special rule, and thus are not Independant Characters. So why shuold they cough up Indy KP's?

I hope I imagined that FAQ and they do only give up a single KP, because I'm rather sick of my PC squads being kill point factories.

edit - I found a thread on it and worked it out. 1 kp only, I was looking at the old faq. yay.

As for the intial poll, I didn't notice it before and got the jist of this thread kinda wrong. The overall answer is that platoons do give up multiple kps, you do not not have to wipe out the entireplatoon do get the kps, only the individual units. the only exception is that infantry squads that are formed into a combined squad are only worth 1 kp total.

ArbitorIan wrote:UNITS give KPs. You can have multiple units in a single FOC slot. All good.

So, since this question has been resolved, I'm gonna ask another.

What about upgrade Special Characters? A Veteran squad with Harker is two different selections from the army list in one FOC slot. Is it two different units, just like a Tac squad and Rhino?

I don't see how it's two different selections, Harker is purchased as an upgrade that replaces the unit's normal sergeant. He does have a funny little box that might imply he's a bit separate from the unit, but I don't think he really is.

Why is this a poll? A Platoon is worth multiple KP. Anyone saying otherwise is Wrong.

A combined squad in the platoon is only worth 1 kp though, right? 5 inf. squads combined = 1 kp?

Jimole wrote:A combined squad in the platoon is only worth 1 kp though, right? 5 inf. squads combined = 1 kp?

Correct.

Jimole- that was the old guard codex, where the Junior officer etc were Independent characters with retinues, and as such were worth 2KP.

They are no longer ICs so only 1KP

nosferatu1001 wrote:Jimole- that was the old guard codex, where the Junior officer etc were Independent characters with retinues, and as such were worth 2KP.

They are no longer ICs so only 1KP

While that is the RAW nosferatu... the GW rulebook FAQ implies differently.

40k rulebook FAQ wrote:A command squad is an independent character and his retinue, as defined on page 48 of the rulebook. The rulebook clearly states on page 91 that a character and his retinue are worth 1 kill point each. Therefore the enemy gains 1 kill point for killing the junior officer, and 1 kill point for killing the accompanying guardsmen.

Of course, the RAW is that the officer is not an independent character, but for people who like to play "all FAQ all the time" this actually establishes the officer as an independent character, and thus makes the units worth two KPs. I'd like to note that this FAQ is dated February 2010 on the website.

The FAQ was updated but did not remove this incorrect answer.

In order to apply this FAQ you have to create an independent character where none existed before. this is an idiotic solution and ignores the rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The FAQ was updated but did not remove this incorrect answer.

In order to apply this FAQ you have to create an independent character where none existed before. this is an idiotic solution and ignores the rules.

I agree with you, but wanted to point out why there could still be some confusion, despite the fact that officers are no longer ICs.

nosferatu1001 wrote: this is an idiotic solution and ignores the rules.

And yet 90% of the FAQs ignore the rules but all I get is abuse when I bring this up.

So it's still rather up in the air whether the command squad is worth one or two kp?

Personally, I wouldn't mind the CCs giving up two command points, the officer is after all a 3 attack 3 wound model, but I hate the PCS being a 30pt kp factory.

It is not at all up in the air, as the FAQ is from the 4th ed guard codex, not the 5th ed one. In 4th ed the junior officers were ICs with retinues, and therefore count as 2KPs. In the new codex they are not an IC and therefore the question never arises.

Realize that I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but some people think that the FAQs are the inerrant word of GW handed out from on-high. For these people, whose grasp of the rules is not good enough to interpret rulings on their own, I could see how the FAQ makes things quite confusing.

willydstyle wrote:Realize that I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but some people think that the FAQs are the inerrant word of GW handed out from on-high. For these people, whose grasp of the rules is not good enough to interpret rulings on their own, I could see how the FAQ makes things quite confusing.

Those people have no business handling anything sharper than a spoon or stickier than Pritt Stick, let alone Craft Knives and Superglue.

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Realize that I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but some people think that the FAQs are the inerrant word of GW handed out from on-high. For these people, whose grasp of the rules is not good enough to interpret rulings on their own, I could see how the FAQ makes things quite confusing.

Those people have no business handling anything sharper than a spoon or stickier than Pritt Stick, let alone Craft Knives and Superglue.

And yet it seems like those people are the majority of 40k players...