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So, I feel it's unfair for units with very low I to face units, like SM with very high I.

So, I thought, what if it was I+D6+modifiers.

Some things that could affect Initiative:
Charging gives 1+ to I
Furious charge gives +2
Assault grenades give +1
Defencive grenades (for the defender) gives -1 to Initiative.

Then, obviously things like powerfists would reduce initiative to one, making this uneeded.

Defender would get I+D6+modifiers

Counter charge gives 1+
Defencive grenades would give 1+
Stealth USP would give 1+?

Stealth maybe if they're in cover they could be able to make a suprise attack.

Example:
A Space marine charges at an ork.

The space marine had Initiative 4, and assault grenades. he is also charging.

So, the end result would be I6+D6 (to a maximum of 10.)

The ork would get I2+D6
Because he has the D6, he has a chance of striking first.

While this will make everything a little more complicated, I thought it might null overhigh initiative values.

I think it's a nice idea but its an additional sum to slow the game down. Initiative does concern me though for some unit choices but i genreally enhance the combat squads giving them furious charge and such so I can hit first or at least at the same time.

I don't think we need anything additional to slow the game down although I think your idea is a good one.

LotR's mechanic of fight values and one-sided wounds wouldn't work, but in terms of initiative - I think
I+D6 isn't a bad idea, it just slows the game. Initiative used to be a broken concept. Defenders react
fixed much of what's wrong with it. You're still correct it could be much better, but I used to be able to
charge a unit with something like a 6-7 attack daemon prince and never get hit back, break the unit, then get
right into combat with another unit. Now, that same daemon prince has to pick his targets wisely or get mauled
by squads that can take the hits or absorb the wounds and pile in to kill him. Or.. overkill a small squad
and get stuffed by rapid firing lasguns or bolters or something really weak.

As stated in other threads, i see no problem with Int the way it is currently. I see two problems with your idea

1. It will slow the game down a little and with games already taking 2+ hours to play, adding 10secs to each close combat per player turn could add a decent amount of time to the game.

2. Dice already plays a huge factor in the game. Adding more pure luck does not sit well with me.

NEEDLESS once again...

Solon,

Please find a copy of 2nd ed 40k rules and read them then compare them to current editions.

The majority of modifiers were scrapped from 3rd ed onwards to make the game faster and more playable, taking it away from its rpg routes and into an actual wargame.

besides why should stupid or slow or ill trained troops get a bonus when facing the angels of death?

Just look at other races base stats and keep SM separate and you wont see much of a difference between them.

Mr. Burning wrote:
Just look at other races base stats and keep SM separate and you wont see much of a difference between them.

QFT, MEQ's are not the standard soldier in 40k. They may be the most played but they are (probably) the least numerous. If you want to look at baseline stats take a standard Imperial Guardsmen, who represents a (supposedly) well trained, physically fit, decently equipped human soldier.

Mr. Burning wrote:

besides why should stupid or slow or ill trained troops get a bonus when facing the angels of death?

Why should anyone ever be better than SPESS MEHRENS anyway? If you ask me, GW went in the right direction with Mephiston, except that all MEHRENS should be like him.

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Why should anyone ever be better than SPESS MEHRENS anyway? If you ask me, GW went in the right direction with Mephiston, except that all MEHRENS should be like him.

You mean ridiculously expensive, reliant on psychic tests, and unable to join units? Hells yeah!

Mekniakal wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Why should anyone ever be better than SPESS MEHRENS anyway? If you ask me, GW went in the right direction with Mephiston, except that all MEHRENS should be like him.

You mean ridiculously expensive, reliant on psychic tests, and unable to join units? Hells yeah!

I was being a bit sarcastic, haha.

It just annoys me when people think that Imperial Space Marines are the end-all be-all when they're really not.

Captain Solon wrote:So, I feel it's unfair for units with very low I to face units, like SM with very high I.

SM, very high I ? Wait wait... I mean sure they have decent, above average I.... but very high?
I often find I:4 lacking against many armies, like Eldar or Tyranids.
When you have I:7+ steamrollers running towards you, that I:4 is as useful as I:1

I must say that this idea isn't the wost I've heard, but theres just something about putting more things on luck (yeah yeah I'm the king of snake eyes), and I'd rather not having to rely on 6s so often.
Guess I'm playing the wrong game huh

HI all.
I have always seen the Initiative values , as the results of a straight toe to toe combat.
But the assaulting unit might get the drop on a enemy unit if it is lucky enough?

So how about the assaulting unit has to roll over the target units highest I score to strike first?(Natural 6 always passes, natural 1 always fails.)
(Slow weapons like Power fist etc ,still strike in intitiative order.)

So an ork mob has to roll over 4 to get the drop on a SM squad.
Where as the Sm squad has to roll over 2 to get the drop on the ork mob.

After this initial assault everything reverts back to straight initiative values.

Just one dice roll at the start of an assault,not too much of a slow down, and gives more variety.

What do you think?

TTFN
Lanrak

Lanrak wrote:HI all.
I have always seen the Initiative values , as the results of a straight toe to toe combat.
But the assaulting unit might get the drop on a enemy unit if it is lucky enough?

So how about the assaulting unit has to roll over the target units highest I score to strike first?(Natural 6 always passes, natural 1 always fails.)
(Slow weapons like Power fist etc ,still strike in intitiative order.)

So an ork mob has to roll over 4 to get the drop on a SM squad.
Where as the Sm squad has to roll over 2 to get the drop on the ork mob.

After this initial assault everything reverts back to straight initiative values.

Just one dice roll at the start of an assault,not too much of a slow down, and gives more variety.

What do you think?

TTFN
Lanrak

I'm going to try this, seems fairly fluid and natural to use.