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Hi guys,

Putting together an ork army and wondered if I can use snikrot in the way I hope to. He can outflank from any board edge when he enters from reserve along with his squad. Can I put an IC in with the komando's (like Gazzy)? Or is there something I have missed in the rules that says you cant confer this rule to an IC?

Thanks

You have given me the image of ghazgkull (Effectively a tank) sneaking up on a group of Space marines.

And then stating: GentleGitz?

Infiltrate USR in rulebook has an asterisk next to it saying that ability is lost by a unit when an IC joins it who doesnt have the special rule so I doubt it would work.

Sniktrot doesn't use infiltrate he uses Ambush! His own rule, and iirc yes it does work RAW, but it's an unsporting move and just not done, like seriously man we've just had to stop fighting about the whole DR thing, don't bring this one up, it works RAW we do not do it.

Or you can go with the INAT answer,

ORK.62C.01 – Q: Can an Independent Character (such as a Warboss on a bike) join Snikrot‟s unit before the game and arrive with them via „Ambush‟?
A: No, as Snikrot‟s ability is a special rule that does not specify it affects other ICs joined to his unit, it does not

Yeah I think its a bit beardy and not how it was meant to be used. I think I'll just not go there. thanks

However it's worth pointing out the INAT ruling contradicts their oterh ruling on "Pain boyz", which have the exact same "his unit.." wording, where ICs *do* benefit from FNP.

RAW - yes, as Ambush! specifies "his unit" and an IC joined to a unit IS part of the unit, as all rules around ICs state.

RAI - who knows.

~! They could fix that by changing the wording to 'unique rule'.

RaW = Yes
RaI = Yes (If they didn't intend it, they would not have written it)
RaPlayedViaTheINATFAQ = No.

Gwar! wrote:RaW = Yes
RaI = Yes (If they didn't intend it, they would not have written it)
RaPlayedViaTheINATFAQ = No.

Yep. But the INAT FAQ is so fun to hate for a plethora of reasons.

If you're playing in a friendly game, don't do it. If you're playing in a competitive tournament - do it if you want to.

Jakkara - a squadron of leman russ tanks outflanking makes more sense than Gaz fluff wize?

Clay Williams wrote:Jakkara - a squadron of leman russ tanks outflanking makes more sense than Gaz fluff wize?

Indeed. For Leman Russ to Outflank it would have to take some kind of Tactical Gen...

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

What Gwar said.

But this has been brought up before I wouldn't let an opponent do it it is the most dick slowed rule breaking idea I've ever heard and regardless of your arguement you'd get a punch in the throat and know one I know would ever wanna play you.

HEEEEEEEEERRRE'S GHAZZY!

I just wanna see the Kommandos try to tell the boss he needs to be quite and quit Reving his bike.

Cajun - on the contrary, it is NOT "rule breaking" - breaking the rules is denying the ability, when you have been given permission t odo it.

In your opinion it is a dick move, that is all.

It is rule breaking every other ability of this nature is lost should an IC join the squad. Sorry that you have no common sense which is what is suppose to link the rules together. Yay to get flamed right after this post for posting the truth. "NO I REFUSE THE TRUTH I WILL HOLD ON TO THIS LIE BECAUSE U SAID USE BRAIN IN HEAZD DUZ I HAZ?!?!"

Every other *USR* is lost *ONLY BECAUSE THE USR SECTION STATES SO*

See, other people can shout as well. Doesnt make your argument any more valid.

Post reported for violation of many, many tenets

What you just said is that if it wasn't listed squads would lose FNP if an IC joined them them. Which makes perfect sense to me. Obviously your cheating.

Punch in the throat, really? ... I have still yet to see any physical violence over 40k. But I would be betting you would bitch quietly in a corner of the room to your friends ... or update your twitter with a heated comment about the game.

I usually follow the inat FAQ, but I wouldn't have any problem playing someone who wanted to play it either way.

Wouldn't the discrepancy between the painboy and the IC be covered as such:

IC's become attached to a mob based on distance

IC with a mob under painboy protection becomes part of protected mob

IC in reserves is not attached to Snikrot's mob because they are not considered to have a distance or coherency

IC has to enter as reserve based on standard reserve rules. Snik uses his. By the time any distance based coherency can be measured, it is too late to apply Snikrot's ability to the IC.

ChrisCP wrote:Sniktrot doesn't use infiltrate he uses Ambush! His own rule, and iirc yes it does work RAW, but it's a dick move and just not done, like seriously man we've just had to stop fighting about the whole DR thing, don't bring this one up, it works RAW we do not do it.

CajunMan550 wrote:What Gwar said.

But this has been brought up before I wouldn't let an opponent do it it is the most dick slowed rule breaking idea I've ever heard and regardless of your arguement you'd get a punch in the throat and know one I know would ever wanna play you.

CajunMan550 wrote:It is rule breaking every other ability of this nature is lost should an IC join the squad. Sorry that you have no common sense which is what is suppose to link the rules together. Yay to get flamed right after this post for posting the truth. "NO I REFUSE THE TRUTH I WILL HOLD ON TO THIS LIE BECAUSE U SAID USE BRAIN IN HEAZD DUZ I HAZ?!?!"

CajunMan550 wrote:What you just said is that if it wasn't listed squads would lose FNP if an IC joined them them. Which makes perfect sense to me. Obviously your cheating.

Moderator note: Chill out, folks,

Arguments like the above are not acceptable interactions with other posters. Calling a play decision based on a given interpretation “a dick move” or accusing another poster of cheating are not generally constructive ways to discuss the rules. They throw more heat than light, as the saying goes. Talking about physical violence is also a poor idea, as it makes your argument look irrational and emotionally-based.

Remember that the way people discuss rules on a forum is NOT always the way they choose to play it. Sometimes people advocate a given position because they want to understand the rules or because they enjoy debating, regardless of whether that’s how they’d actually play it in game. If you find yourself getting angry with another poster, take a deep breath, remember that we’re talking about toy soldiers, and relax. If you really feel that someone else is being rude or flaming, hit that “alert moderator” button on the upper right of the post. We’ll check it out and enact disciplinary action if needed.

Thank you!

-The Mgmt.

Regardless of the perceived value of the move, I would have to question throwing a 250 pt model into reserves and not being able to use unique abilities until they hit the table.

what if he doesnt show up until turn 4?

NaZ

While I don't see anything in the rules that disallow it, this is actually one of the few contentious INAT rulings I agree wtih and I win many an RTT without having to resort to that tactic.

Granted fluff is by no means a substitute or addendum for the rules but I can see that conversation;
Snikrot "hey boss mind shutting the hell up so we can sneak up on these gitz"
Warboss "I have a better idea, say hello to my powerKlaw."
Kommando #1 "thanks boss always wanted to be the leader of this mob."

Gwar! wrote:RaW = Yes
RaI = Yes (If they didn't intend it, they would not have written it)
RaPlayedViaTheINATFAQ = No.

I can get on board with all but that middle part. It assumes that the author made no grammatical or logic mistakes... and as we all know this can be proven untrue. If the authors never made mistakes there would be no need for Errata.

We can guess at intent by taking a given rule in context and by using precedent, but without interviewing the author we cannot *know* intent.

No one knows for certain.

Ambush! isn't a USR, and the BRB doesn't address what happens if an IC joins a unit with a special rule. It addresses what happens if an IC joins a unit with a USR.

The Kommandoes would lose Infiltrate, but they don't need that to use Ambush! They can be put in reserve, because this is fifth edition. And they don't arrive by Outflanking. They arrive by Ambush!

INAT FAQ separates special rules and wargear that grants special rules/USR's. INAT FAQ consistently states that special unit rules don't get conferred onto an IC that joins the unit (like Ambush!). INAT FAQ consistently states that wargear which grants an USR or special rule 'to the unit' does get conferred to an IC (like a Painboy's Dok Tools granting an IC FNP).

Either that or when the DEX was playtested it never occurred to the guys at GW that someone would actually try this.

On the flip side maybe it did occur to them and they have no issues with an IC joining Snikrot.

This one will only truely be resolved if it is ever FAQd. Until then you just have to go with the local houserule on the issue.

Keep in mind that the Ork Codex was released in Fourth Edition. While it was allegedly developed with fifth edition in mind, somethings may have changed in the core rules that they didn't account for.

iirc, in fourth edition, an IC couldn't join Snikrot's unit before deployment because they were off the board in reserves. As a result, it was a non-issue. But, in fourth, an IC could join a unit with a Painboy with Dok's Tools and benefit from FNP.

ChrisCP wrote:Sniktrot doesn't use infiltrate he uses Ambush! His own rule, and iirc yes it does work RAW, but it's an unsporting move and just not done, like seriously man we've just had to stop fighting about the whole DR thing, don't bring this one up, it works RAW we do not do it.

Better mod? Sorry

It is a RAW situation. p 46 in AOBR Rulebook, it says "Unless specified in the rule itself the units special rules are not conferred upon the character....", it also says characters rules are not conferred onto the unit. Ambush doesn't mention IC at all. Read it and see what you think.
Also I want to mention something about fnp and IC's, on p75 there is NOT an asterisk next to FNP, which means that is is not lost when and IC joins the unit. This is not a contradiction in the INAT it is clear RAW.
Last I never play RAI, as stated above there is no way to really know. I play only RAW, or rules clearly specified in a tourney. It makes no sense to go and change rules based on some vague sense that GW meant it to be that way. If the RAW said Ghazz could use ambush I would accept that.