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Hi now most of us know that in the fluff marines are a good deal more ownage than in the game. This is of course to make the game balanced, and make marines sell better. It is fine when marines are against other marines or CSM because they are so equal anyway. But the fluff describes only a few marines fighting off hoards of orks, tyranids ect and hardly loosing any men. This does not happen in the normal game system. I looked at the "movie marines" rules and think that they are going a bit OTT, even for ones such as marines. So I have tried to find a "midpoint" in the rules to have a good, fluffy game but not make marines so OTT. (I don't know what would be fair point costings)

Stat Lines:

Scout WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Marine WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+/6+
Veteran WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Sergeant WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Captain/Master WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv3+/6+ (+eternal warrior)

Other changes:

Power Armour: 3+ AS, 6+ Inv Save
Artificer Armour: 2+ AS, 5+ Inv Save
TDA: 2+ As, 4+ Inv Save, +1T (like a bike)
Iron Halo: 3+ Inv Save
Storm Shield: 3+ Inv Save, +1A
Combat Shield: 5+ Inv Save, +1A
Chainsword: power weapon
Power weapon: power weapon, +1WS
Lightning Claws: power weapon, re-roll all failed to hits and to wounds
Bolter: Str5 Ap5 Range24" Type Assault 2
Storm Bolter: Str5 Ap5 Range24" Type Assault 4
Bolt pistol: Str5 Ap5 Range12" Type pistol
Heavy Bolter: Str6 Ap4 Range36"/18" Type Heavy 5/ Assault 5 (2 modes)
Assault Cannon: Str6 Ap4 Range24" Type Heavy 8, Rending

Bell of Lost Soul has an article on this very subject. You may be interested. I cannot get to their site to get you the link at the moment due to webfiltering, otherwise I would post the link for you.

vodo40k wrote:Stat Lines:

Scout WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Marine WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+/6+
Veteran WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Sergeant WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Captain/Master WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv3+/6+ (+eternal warrior)
[these sound alot like my choices. why would we give marines S/T 5? A1, they're excelent in close, but not that good!. power armour giving a 6+ invulnerable save?! Whoa.]

Other changes:

Power Armour: 3+ AS, 6+ Inv Save
[no.]
Artificer Armour: 2+ AS, 5+ Inv Save
[no.]
TDA: 2+ As, 4+ Inv Save, +1T (like a bike)
[I like this. maybe just 5+ inv. though.]
Iron Halo: 3+ Inv Save
[4+]
Storm Shield: 3+ Inv Save, +1A
[3+ invul no A]
Combat Shield: 5+ Inv Save, +1A
[sounds nice]
Chainsword: power weapon
[no]
Power weapon: power weapon, +1WS
[no]
Lightning Claws: power weapon, re-roll all failed to hits and to wounds
[stop.]
Bolter: Str5 Ap5 Range24" Type Assault 2
S4 AP5 Rapid is fine .
Storm Bolter: Str5 Ap5 Range24" Type Assault 4
[assault 2, S4 AP5. bolters are already awesome.]
Bolt pistol: Str5 Ap5 Range12" Type pistol
[S4 AP5]
Heavy Bolter: Str6 Ap4 Range36"/18" Type Heavy 5/ Assault 5 (2 modes)
[I could see this working. Never 2 models, noone would do that.Heavy 3]
Assault Cannon: Str6 Ap4 Range24" Type Heavy 8, Rending
[Heavy 5 maybe]

I like your enthusiasm, but some of these are... waaay OP.

Even by my standards.

yeah this is a pretty neat idea, it would need alot of play testing to get it to a workable system. Keep at it

Captain Solon wrote:
I like your enthusiasm, but some of these are... waaay OP.

Even by my standards.

That's saying something, isn't it?

That's like Abaddon going up to Kharn and saying, "Dude, all those people you killed, that was way over the top. You need to cool it down"

Did you look at my oft-decried movie marines project? Or the old White Dwarf article?

vodo40k wrote:Hi now most of us know that in the fluff marines are a good deal more ownage than in the game. This is of course to make the game balanced, and make marines sell better. It is fine when marines are against other marines or CSM because they are so equal anyway. But the fluff describes only a few marines fighting off hoards of orks, tyranids ect and hardly loosing any men. This does not happen in the normal game system. I looked at the "movie marines" rules and think that they are going a bit OTT, even for ones such as marines. So I have tried to find a "midpoint" in the rules to have a good, fluffy game but not make marines so OTT. (I don't know what would be fair point costings)

You know i have had this same idea rattling around my head for the past few weeks, and i hate to post a new thread to show what i came up with, so im gonna just drop it into your pool of ideas...

Space Marine 40 points a piece
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+/6+
Special abilities: Feel no pain, chainswords gain rending.

Veteran Space Marine 66 points a piece
WS4 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Special Abilities: Feel no Pain, chainsword gain rending(power sword upgrade available for half the current price) special ammunition and free storm bolter swap out option.

Scout (havent thought about yet)

Sergeant is a veteran

Veteran in Tactical Dreadnought Armor 100 points a piece
WS4 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv2+/5+
special abilities: The sargeant comes with power fist, because TDA keep power fist from dropping the users Initiative. They also have a rule i call "The Terminator Spirit" which is a feel no pain roll of 3+ that is only negated by ap1 weapons, they are also negated by weapons that are strength double the users toughness.
Captain/Master 250 points for either
WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3++ (+eternal warrior)
Special abilities: has feel no pain, and may upgrade to a terminator suit for 50 points gaining The Terminator Spirit and a chainfist, or thunderhammer for free. blah blah fill in the gaps i guess.

This is just a thought, but if it sounds off, than by how much, I think that the points balance but i havent tested it or anything. I want to make a art scale army to play these guys as. if anyone played space marines back during the second edition rules than the termies might look a little familiar, they basically have a 3+ save on 2d6 which is what they were back than.

Braden wrote:

vodo40k wrote:Hi now most of us know that in the fluff marines are a good deal more ownage than in the game. This is of course to make the game balanced, and make marines sell better. It is fine when marines are against other marines or CSM because they are so equal anyway. But the fluff describes only a few marines fighting off hoards of orks, tyranids ect and hardly loosing any men. This does not happen in the normal game system. I looked at the "movie marines" rules and think that they are going a bit OTT, even for ones such as marines. So I have tried to find a "midpoint" in the rules to have a good, fluffy game but not make marines so OTT. (I don't know what would be fair point costings)

You know i have had this same idea rattling around my head for the past few weeks, and i hate to post a new thread to show what i came up with, so im gonna just drop it into your pool of ideas...

Space Marine 40 points a piece
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+/6+
Special abilities: Feel no pain, chainswords gain rending.

Veteran Space Marine 66 points a piece
WS4 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv3+/6+
Special Abilities: Feel no Pain, chainsword gain rending(power sword upgrade available for half the current price) special ammunition and free storm bolter swap out option.

Scout (havent thought about yet)

Sergeant is a veteran

Veteran in Tactical Dreadnought Armor 100 points a piece
WS4 BS5 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv2+/5+
special abilities: The sargeant comes with power fist, because TDA keep power fist from dropping the users Initiative. They also have a rule i call "The Terminator Spirit" which is a feel no pain roll of 3+ that is only negated by ap1 weapons, they are also negated by weapons that are strength double the users toughness.
Captain/Master 250 points for either
WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3++ (+eternal warrior)
Special abilities: has feel no pain, and may upgrade to a terminator suit for 50 points gaining The Terminator Spirit and a chainfist, or thunderhammer for free. blah blah fill in the gaps i guess.

This is just a thought, but if it sounds off, than by how much, I think that the points balance but i havent tested it or anything. I want to make a art scale army to play these guys as. if anyone played space marines back during the second edition rules than the termies might look a little familiar, they basically have a 3+ save on 2d6 which is what they were back than.

are you fecking serious?!

40 points would mean you could take like 5 marines against 90 orks.

Space marines DON'T need an invulnerable save. their 3+ armour is AWESOME.

how about this:

tactical marine:
20 points (squad is 90 for 5.)
WS4 BS5 S4 T4(5) W1 I5 A2 Ld8 Sv3+
Scout marine:
17 points (85 is 5.)
WS3 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Terminator marine
50 points, 200 for 5.
WS4 BS6 S4 T4(6) W2(?) I3 A2 Ld9 Sv2+5+
SM in artificer armour 35 points/28 points
WS5 BS6 S4 T4(6) W2(?) I3 A2 Ld9 Sv2+
Biker marine
See: Tactical marine, T4(6)
Scout biker marine
See: scout marine T4(5)
Biker marine, arti. armour
See: Artificer armour SM T4(7)

The bracketed toughness would work like bikes, in the fact that they count as T5 (as a tactical marine) with T4 as instant kill.

Mmm, yea im fecking serious, but i see you think they need a toughness 5, is it my turn to say that a toughness 4 is awsome? if your going to raise multiple stats than raise the points more than what you suggest. and if 3+ armour saves are so awsome than why are you trying to offer up a cheap 2+ save with artificer armour, and if 3+ is so good, than why should 2+ marines need another wound?

no, your OP and to cheap.

I like these way more than the OTT depictions people usually come up with.

Captain Solon wrote:

are you fecking serious?!

40 points would mean you could take like 5 marines against 90 orks.

Space marines DON'T need an invulnerable save. their 3+ armour is AWESOME.

how about this:

tactical marine:
20 points (squad is 90 for 5.)
WS4 BS5 S4 T4(5) W1 I5 A2 Ld8 Sv3+

Are you fecking serious?!?!?!

5 for 90p is the exact same price they go for now.
And your throwing them a BS bonus?
And your throwing them a T bonus?
And your throwing them an I bonus?
And your throwing them an A bonus?

Yeah, great way to stay UNDER the top...
I won't even get started at the rest of the ideas...

Ignore the haters, OP. Many here don't really like the idea of scaling upward marines as a variant rule set.

My old attempt is here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/241397.page

I was going for a 'Marine-zilla' sort of feel, on par with nidzilla. Good luck with your rules!

Captain Solon wrote:
I like your enthusiasm, but some of these are... waaay OP.

Even by my standards.

OP, once you're here for a bit more, you'll realize that some posters postings need to be taken with a grain of salt, or in some cases...might as well just throw a whole bag of salt in.

I like your ideas, if you can throw out some pricings for everyone to hash over, I'll give it a test-game for you.