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Hey all, I bought a Devastator squad a few weeks back with the idea that I was investing in a long-range, specialised Tactical squad similar to my excellent Ork Lootas. Instead, I got 35 point lascannons . Could anyone explain why a lascannon costs 10 points in a Tactical squad but 35 in a Devatator team? All the heavy weapons in a Devastator team seem to be at least 20 points more than their counterparts in a Tac squad.

Is it because GW are trying to limit the amount of heavy weapons Space Marines can take? Devastators can already only take 4 heavy weapons... so what gives? I propose a points reduction for the Devastator heavy weapons - at least 10 points less per upgrade.

Since the tac is an all rounder the heavy choice isn't going to be as effective as one held in a dev squad (purpose for laying down heavy fire). hence the cheaper cost for tac squads.

yeah, I know this is crazy, but its how GW see it. And I agree with you. You don't see many Dev squads in the current Meta and lowering the points cost may go some way to making Devastators and attractive choice.

simple: if someone is wanting 4 lascannons, wich is FECKING USELESS, BTW.

They're expensive because it's unfair if you can take 10 tactical marinesd with lascannons.

personally, I just bought devastator squads for their weapons, I don't see the need for the squad itself.

So, my suggestion to you:
Put those 4 lascdevs into 4 different tactical squads.

Edit: fixed mistake

They work fine as they are mate.

Devastators used to be fairly effective. A unit that could sit still and throw out some decent heavy firepower. Come to 5th ed and their effectiveness is diluted due to the way in which the game works now.

If you like them, take them and use them.

It's a case of weapon density and wasted potential. Suppose you want 12 lascannons in your army; a reasonable number for a list geared that way. You could achieve this with 3 5-man devestator squads for 690 points. With tactical squads, ignoring the fact that you can't actually do this (limit 6 troops choices) it would cost 2160 points for 12 10-man squads with lascannons. Now, the obvious difference here is that you get 120 marines with the tactical squads, and only 15 with the devestator squads, but what use are those extra marines other than ablative wounds? If you're firing at tanks with those lascannons, then the bolters are useless. With the devestator squads, you only have 3 wasted marines. With the tactical squads, 108.

However, the devesator squads can only fire at 1 target each for a total of three, where as the tactical squads get 12 unique targets. Devestators with lascannons just aren't that good. They are expensive, and prone to massive overkill, wasting three shots when one would have done the job. If it's a shooty army you're after, consider this:

HQ

Librarian, Null Zone, Avenger - 100

Troops

10 Tacticals, Meltagun, Lascannon, Razorback - 225
10 Tacticals, Meltagun, Lascannon, Razorback - 225

Heavy Support:

10 Devestators + 4 Missile Launchers + Rhino - 265
10 Devestators + 4 Missile Launchers + Rhino - 265
10 Devestators + 4 Missile Launchers + Rhino - 265

1345 points, so some spare points to throw around depending on your limit.

To use it, combat squad everything:

Tacticals
5+Lascannon to hide in cover somewhere and shoot big things.
5+melta+razorback to charge forwards and get close.

Devestators
5+2 Missiles in a Rhino to stay still and fire out the top hatch
5+2 Missiles to hide the 3 with bolters behind the rhino giving them cover, and the 2 missiles in line of sight to shoot things.

Librarian hops in a razorback to help nullify enemy invulnerable saves. Combat squading the Dev squads means you can shoot at two targets per unit, limiting overkill.

If you want a shooty army try this:

Librarian on bike (Needed an HQ)

3 Rifleman dreads (2 twinlinked auto cannons)

3 Dakka Preds (Autocannon & Heavy Bolters)

6x 5 man tac squads. Sarge gets a combi flamer. With lascannon/plasma gun razorbacks.

IIRC this fits perfectly into a 2,000 point game and the massive amount of high str AP4 shots it puts out can make almost any army cower in fear.

the autocannons make short work of light vehicles and the lascannons will take down the bigger ones. (Yea I know they have trouble Vs. AV 14 but you have 6 of them)

Captain Solon wrote:
They're expensive because it's unfair if you can take 12 tactical marinesd with lascannons.

Except you cannot.



On topic: While Dev weapons need to be more expsensive than Tac weapons (as they can spam them) or Long Fang weapons (can take ablartive armour), they do need a points reduction IMO.

I would suggest:
HB:10
ML:As Codex
MM:As Codex
LC:25
PC:As Codex


@Solon - There's nothing wrong with a LC per say, after all, the (arguably) best IG unit is the Vendetta, which packs 3 TLLC. Its just the cost that prevents their reasonable use.

They are seen as costing more points because in a devastator squad they will be seeing more use which dictates the fact that they would cost more.

The way GW sees it is that the tactical squad will be on the move, and may need a weapon for any circumstance. In a game you may never need to fire that lascannon you bought for 10 points (although I usually do, split into combat squads and one has the special weapon, not always however) and it will be useless except under certain circumstances.

That being said in a Devastator squad, unless something happens, it is going to be still every turn of the game firing its weapons, meaning that the weapons will be more important/useful in that squad so therefore they should cost more.

GW has a point....

Black Antelope wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:
They're expensive because it's unfair if you can take 12 tactical marinesd with lascannons.

[@black Thats a typo.]

Except you cannot.



On topic: While Dev weapons need to be more expsensive than Tac weapons (as they can spam them) or Long Fang weapons (can take ablartive armour), they do need a points reduction IMO.

I would suggest:
HB:10
ML:As Codex
MM:As Codex
LC:25
PC:As Codex


@Solon - There's nothing wrong with a LC per say, after all, the (arguably) best IG unit is the Vendetta, which packs 3 TLLC. Its just the cost that prevents their reasonable use.

for vendetta sure, but you could do so much better for anti-tank.

arguably, devastator squads can be very dangerous.

for 90 pts you get what? 5 tactical marines, (you do get a signum, yes.)

you can include up to 5 more marines with bolters, for 16 pts each (80 pts)

and arm it up with 4 lascannons for 140 pts

totally, this costs 310 pts, really all you get is a 4-man lascannon squad with some meat shield and one model with BS5.

Really, I'd rather go with a LR godhammer with a B-Sergeant chronus, for only 10 pts extra, and be able to move and shoot two lascannons at BS5.

But I guess thats my opinion, you're more likely to win with 2lascannons.

The major problem with that, is you don't get no pretty 6-man meatshield squad.

I don't think anyone including GW really disagrees with you. Just look at reduced cost for heavy weapons in BA and SW codexs. I think they realized their error but don't want to change anything. That being said what is price check on razorback with lascannon? If I recall its just slighly more expensive then the devestator has a twinlinked plasma gun on it and is immune to S4 shots. So its much more effective than a devestator sad really