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Hey All,

Have a look through the below, let me know your thoughts? Decent? Or Epic Fail?





1749pts Total
74 Models

HQ
Archon - Tormentor Helm, Punisher, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs + Shadow Field
137

Haemonculi - Destructor, Scissorhand + Plasma Grenades
47

Haemonculi - Destructor + Scissorhand
45

Elites
7 Mandrakes
105

7 Mandrakes
105

5 Wyches - 2 Blasters
70
+ Raider - Dark Lance
55

3 Warp Beasts + Beastmaster
51

Troops
5 Warriors - Blaster
45
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

5 Warriors - Blaster
45
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

5 Warriors - Blaster
45
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

9 Warriors - Dark Lance
82
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

9 Warriors - Dark Lance
82
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

Fast Attack
3 Reaver Jetbikes - 2 Blasters
95

3 Reaver Jetbikes - 2 Blasters
95

Heavy Support
Ravager - 3 Dark Lances
105

Ravager - 3 Disintegrators
120

Ravager - 3 Disintegrators
120

1) Mandrakes=epic fail

Anything they can do, wyches can do better.

2) On your raider squads, each squad should have both lance and blaster. You've got the right idea by putting them in transports, they just need to fully armed for the job they're doing.

3) Warp beasts are a point of contention. I haven't had any luck with them, despite my attempts to the contrary. But some people on here swear by them. So you might want to give them a try.

4) I like night shields on ravagers.

Im trying to learn some dark eldar stuff, are the wyches better due to them making their opponents ws1?

wyches are better because of there ability to make there enemies WS very low. they also have combat drugs, and of course the 4+ invuln save. combine those with an agoniser, you can destroy basically anything. If nothing else they slow your enemies melee units down very fast, and do some damage along the way. they also negate the pistol/ccw bonus.

Sirath wrote:
HQ
Archon - Tormentor Helm, Punisher, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs + Shadow Field
137

Haemonculi - Destructor, Scissorhand + Plasma Grenades
47

Haemonculi - Destructor + Scissorhand
45

At the most basic level I like each individual build of your HQ slots - but whether or not they are "good" also depends on which units you are planning to pair them with and what tactics you will be using. I'm guessing the Archon is going into the wych Raider - which I think will make it far too big of a target for your opponent as you will have blatantly one Raider that is a much bigger point sink then all the others and also only one Raider with any close combat punch. Insofar as that goes I think it's a risky plan.

I'm not sure why the one Haemy has plasma grenades...are you using him to assault? Is he going in with the Wyches as well?

Elites
7 Mandrakes
105

7 Mandrakes
105

New DE player, huh?

Okay, I have issues with this selection for a couple of reasons but I'll spare you all of the 'Mandrakes suxxors, n3vah field them if ur l33t" babble you'll probably hear anyway. What I will point out is the efficiency problems they give your list. I look at your list and I see;
Everything is in Raiders (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Ravager (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Reaver jetbike (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Warp Beast Pack (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is two squads of Mandrakes...(moves 6" a round or less until you place them on the board)

So you now have a squad of seven close combat guys (with no power weapons and Str 3 attacks) who are slower then your entire army. What are you going to be using them for? That's a very legitimate question that you ought to be able to answer - especially if you intend to field 210 points worth of them. The closest I can figure is you're going to have them lurking near your gunline to serve as countercharge/tarpit to things that show up to attack your Raiders? I would suggest, if you really want to try them out, only fielding one squad as a test run. With their deployment rules you'll still have a lot of adaptability on where they come in and perhaps you'll be able to decide if you like them or not.

Also, if I were to field Mandrakes I'd field a squad of 10 - they'll need the extra attacks to help them overwhelm whatever you're intending to assault.

5 Wyches - 2 Blasters
70
+ Raider - Dark Lance
55

They've got to be receiving the Archon here, as it's the only way to explain why you didn't give them an Agoniser. I will note that including Wych Weapons is very affordable and also makes the squad much more survivable because they start shutting down WS and bonus attacks.

3 Warp Beasts + Beastmaster
51

If I field Warp Beasts I usually take all five. I'm neutral about this depending on your intended tactics - I do think the presence of the Warp Beasts suggests even less need for the Mandrakes.

[

u]Troops[/u]
5 Warriors - Blaster
45
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

It's a Gunboat without a Splinter Cannon. I think you're limiting what this squad will be capable of by not buying the S.Cannon as now they are really just a short range anti-armor unit with some minor anti-heavy infantry capability. The splinter cannon will increase their adaptability immensely as well as their overall killing power.

9 Warriors - Dark Lance
82
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

Dropping the Horrorfexes off these boats would be my first piece of advice unless you're always planning to disembark the sniper squad and have these boats run interference up field in which case the Horrofex is a good idea.
I will also note that the Gunboat squads will benefit much more by having more bodies in the squad then these sniper squads. 5, 6, or 10 is the optimal number for a Raider squad's survivability with the way the morale and casualty rules work and at least in the Gunboat squads extra splinter rifles will help - I don't see them helping this squad since you'll always be wanting to shoot at tanks and other vehicles a s.rifle can't hurt.

3 Reaver Jetbikes - 2 Blasters
95

I like these but I will note that if you have the models an additional troop slot will be better for you and basically cost just as much (Warrior squad of 10 with 2 lances or Raider squad of 5 with one lance and a lance Raider)

TheTrueProtoman wrote:Im trying to learn some dark eldar stuff, are the wyches better due to them making their opponents ws1?

Insanity hit on the basic crux. If you want to learn more about DE in general I would recommend you check out the DE Tactica here on Dakka (the link is in my sig) it has a lot of very solid basic info for units to help you get a grasp on what units are good or bad for a given task.

Thank you Thor for the link, I have been trying to find out information about the dark eldar for a while now.

afireinside13t wrote:1) Mandrakes=epic fail

Anything they can do, wyches can do better.

Disagree, Wyches are the biggest fail I have found in playtesting. Mandrakes are the dark horse.

afireinside13t wrote:
2) On your raider squads, each squad should have both lance and blaster. You've got the right idea by putting them in transports, they just need to fully armed for the job they're doing.

What is the point in having a Lance AND a Blaster? They are mutually exclusive weapons

afireinside13t wrote:
3) Warp beasts are a point of contention. I haven't had any luck with them, despite my attempts to the contrary. But some people on here swear by them. So you might want to give them a try.

Yep, cheap at 51pts too.

afireinside13t wrote:
4) I like night shields on ravagers.

Meh, 60pts is about 30 too many for what they provide. I'd sooner have another raider.







Hey Thor, some sweet advice. I'll try to explain my choices;

Thor665 wrote:

Sirath wrote:
HQ
Archon - Tormentor Helm, Punisher, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs + Shadow Field
137

Haemonculi - Destructor, Scissorhand + Plasma Grenades
47

Haemonculi - Destructor + Scissorhand
45

At the most basic level I like each individual build of your HQ slots - but whether or not they are "good" also depends on which units you are planning to pair them with and what tactics you will be using. I'm guessing the Archon is going into the wych Raider - which I think will make it far too big of a target for your opponent as you will have blatantly one Raider that is a much bigger point sink then all the others and also only one Raider with any close combat punch. Insofar as that goes I think it's a risky plan.

I'm not sure why the one Haemy has plasma grenades...are you using him to assault? Is he going in with the Wyches as well?

The Punisher Archon is solid, he joins a warrior-blaster squad for a turn 1 12" ride then disembarks on his lonesome to cause trouble.
The Haemonculi each take an empty raider while the warrior-dark lance squads camp at home.

This forces the opponent into a tougher decisions, rather than "Just shoot the Wych+Archon Raider, Duh"

The missing plasma grenades are due to lack of a spare point.

Thor665 wrote:

Elites
7 Mandrakes
105

7 Mandrakes
105

New DE player, huh?

Okay, I have issues with this selection for a couple of reasons but I'll spare you all of the 'Mandrakes suxxors, n3vah field them if ur l33t" babble you'll probably hear anyway. What I will point out is the efficiency problems they give your list. I look at your list and I see;
Everything is in Raiders (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Ravager (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Reaver jetbike (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is a Warp Beast Pack (moves 12" or more in a round easily)
or is two squads of Mandrakes...(moves 6" a round or less until you place them on the board)

So you now have a squad of seven close combat guys (with no power weapons and Str 3 attacks) who are slower then your entire army. What are you going to be using them for? That's a very legitimate question that you ought to be able to answer - especially if you intend to field 210 points worth of them. The closest I can figure is you're going to have them lurking near your gunline to serve as countercharge/tarpit to things that show up to attack your Raiders? I would suggest, if you really want to try them out, only fielding one squad as a test run. With their deployment rules you'll still have a lot of adaptability on where they come in and perhaps you'll be able to decide if you like them or not.

Also, if I were to field Mandrakes I'd field a squad of 10 - they'll need the extra attacks to help them overwhelm whatever you're intending to assault.

I have found Mandrakes to be very useful. Absolutley unstoppable. You can deliver 56 St3 attacks anywhere on the board. I feel Dark Eldar lack in anti horde, so the 'drakes + 2 Destructors mitigate this.

Also, they do not operate in a vacuum, mandrakes have good synergy with the mobility of the raiders.

As to the speed issue, I agree they are slower than the vast majority of the army.
However - they can go 30"-36" by the end of turn two.

12" Deployment
6" Move turn 1
6" Move turn 2
6" Assault turn 2

+ Fleet of D6"

So not much lag behind.

Thor665 wrote:

5 Wyches - 2 Blasters
70
+ Raider - Dark Lance
55

They've got to be receiving the Archon here, as it's the only way to explain why you didn't give them an Agoniser. I will note that including Wych Weapons is very affordable and also makes the squad much more survivable because they start shutting down WS and bonus attacks.

Meh, after you have paid for Agoniser + Sybarite/Succubus + Plasma Grenades + More warm bodies you have almost doubled the cost of the squad. I am going for MSU so this doesnt track.

Thor665 wrote:

3 Warp Beasts + Beastmaster
51

If I field Warp Beasts I usually take all five. I'm neutral about this depending on your intended tactics - I do think the presence of the Warp Beasts suggests even less need for the Mandrakes.

Never actually used the warp beasts, but had 52 points spare... will let you know how they go after easter.

Thor665 wrote:
[

u]Troops[/u]
5 Warriors - Blaster
45
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

It's a Gunboat without a Splinter Cannon. I think you're limiting what this squad will be capable of by not buying the S.Cannon as now they are really just a short range anti-armor unit with some minor anti-heavy infantry capability. The splinter cannon will increase their adaptability immensely as well as their overall killing power.

Explain to me why you would ever bother with a splinter cannon? 10pts for two storm bolters sounds a poor trade off.

Thor665 wrote:

9 Warriors - Dark Lance
82
+ Raider - Dark Lance + Horrorfex
60

Dropping the Horrorfexes off these boats would be my first piece of advice unless you're always planning to disembark the sniper squad and have these boats run interference up field in which case the Horrofex is a good idea.
I will also note that the Gunboat squads will benefit much more by having more bodies in the squad then these sniper squads. 5, 6, or 10 is the optimal number for a Raider squad's survivability with the way the morale and casualty rules work and at least in the Gunboat squads extra splinter rifles will help - I don't see them helping this squad since you'll always be wanting to shoot at tanks and other vehicles a s.rifle can't hurt.

Its 5, 9, 13 or 17 that are the optimal numbers.

Thor665 wrote:

3 Reaver Jetbikes - 2 Blasters
95

I like these but I will note that if you have the models an additional troop slot will be better for you and basically cost just as much (Warrior squad of 10 with 2 lances or Raider squad of 5 with one lance and a lance Raider)

Hrmm, would you keep one and drop the other for the aformentioned troops units?

Sirath wrote:What is the point in having a Lance AND a Blaster? They are mutually exclusive weapons.

For 5 points, you've got another lance weapon. Late in the game, your raider squads will have to move onto objectives, where they will be in range to use the blaster. Having another weapon that can potentially open up a transport is very handy.

Sirath wrote:

afireinside13t wrote:
3) Warp beasts are a point of contention. I haven't had any luck with them, despite my attempts to the contrary. But some people on here swear by them. So you might want to give them a try.

Yep, cheap at 51pts too.

Keep in mind that they're also giving up an easy kill point.

Sirath wrote:The Punisher Archon is solid, he joins a warrior-blaster squad for a turn 1 12" ride then disembarks on his lonesome to cause trouble.

I like it. Archons cause a lot of havoc by their lonesome.

Sirath wrote:I have found Mandrakes to be very useful. Absolutley unstoppable. You can deliver 56 St3 attacks anywhere on the board. I feel Dark Eldar lack in anti horde, so the 'drakes + 2 Destructors mitigate this.

Also, they do not operate in a vacuum, mandrakes have good synergy with the mobility of the raiders.

As to the speed issue, I agree they are slower than the vast majority of the army.
However - they can go 30"-36" by the end of turn two.

At what you've currently got, you'll be putting out 42 attacks total, on the charge, between the two squads. This will do approximately 2 wounds against MEQs. Then when they hit back, you've only got a 5+ save. In comparison, wyches will do a comparable number of wounds, can take down MCs, are survivable, and are a great tarpit unit. Also, you can take blasters to crack stubborn transports. Also, with Mandrakes off the board, it's that much more stuff shooting at your valuable units. But if Mandrakes work for you, by all means stick with them. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

Sirath wrote:
Meh, after you have paid for Agoniser + Sybarite/Succubus + Plasma Grenades + More warm bodies you have almost doubled the cost of the squad. I am going for MSU so this doesnt track.

But if you don't give them these upgrades, they're not very good.

Sirath wrote:
Explain to me why you would ever bother with a splinter cannon? 10pts for two storm bolters sounds a poor trade off.

They're assault weapons, so you can fire them out of moving transports and have a higher strength and output than splinter rifles. Dark Eldar have some of the cheapest and best special weapons going, you should really take advantage of them.

Edit: I had the points wrong on Night Shields

Sirath wrote:What is the point in having a Lance AND a Blaster? They are mutually exclusive weapons.

afireinside13t wrote:For 5 points, you've got another lance weapon. Late in the game, your raider squads will have to move onto objectives, where they will be in range to use the blaster. Having another weapon that can potentially open up a transport is very handy.

It is 10pts for Dark Lance, It would be useless as I intend to use the 3x 5man Warrior squads in their raiders...

Sirath wrote:

afireinside13t wrote:
3) Warp beasts are a point of contention. I haven't had any luck with them, despite my attempts to the contrary. But some people on here swear by them. So you might want to give them a try.

Yep, cheap at 51pts too.

afireinside13t wrote:Keep in mind that they're also giving up an easy kill point.

You could easily say the same for raiders or warriors or anything in the dark eldar army... I've given up worrying about KP's.
;-)

Sirath wrote:

afireinside13t wrote:
4) I like night shields on ravagers.

Meh, 60pts is about 30 too many for what they provide. I'd sooner have another raider.

afireinside13t wrote:It would be 45 pts to upgrade all 3 ravagers, and will greatly improve their survivability.

Nah, 15pts for a raider, 20 for a Ravager so 60pts is correct.
They just dont do anything against Missile Launchers + Lascannons to justify the cost.

Sirath wrote:The Punisher Archon is solid, he joins a warrior-blaster squad for a turn 1 12" ride then disembarks on his lonesome to cause trouble.

afireinside13t wrote:I like it. Archons cause a lot of havoc by their lonesome.

Indeed, love it when he eats an entire marine squad in two combat rounds.

Sirath wrote:I have found Mandrakes to be very useful. Absolutley unstoppable. You can deliver 56 St3 attacks anywhere on the board. I feel Dark Eldar lack in anti horde, so the 'drakes + 2 Destructors mitigate this.

Also, they do not operate in a vacuum, mandrakes have good synergy with the mobility of the raiders.

As to the speed issue, I agree they are slower than the vast majority of the army.
However - they can go 30"-36" by the end of turn two.

afireinside13t wrote:At what you've currently got, you'll be putting out 42 attacks total, on the charge, between the two squads. This will do approximately 2 wounds against MEQs. Then when they hit back, you've only got a 5+ save. In comparison, wyches will do a comparable number of wounds, can take down MCs, are survivable, and are a great tarpit unit. Also, you can take blasters to crack stubborn transports. Also, with Mandrakes off the board, it's that much more stuff shooting at your valuable units. But if Mandrakes work for you, by all means stick with them. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

The Mandrakes, you are forgetting the 14 Splinter Pistol shots. So 56 attacks total... anywhere and unstoppable. By no means that is Thunder Hammer terminators good, but it works.
Wyches are just tre bad. Str 3, 6+ save. Plus 'cause they are so overrated everyone and their dog targets them first up. So I have gone with a double blaster build. Cheap and does a job.
True there is 210pts off the board, but that is no different to traditional reserves. However I can choose where and when they appear down to the exact phase the pop in.

Sirath wrote:
Meh, after you have paid for Agoniser + Sybarite/Succubus + Plasma Grenades + More warm bodies you have almost doubled the cost of the squad. I am going for MSU so this doesnt track.

afireinside13t wrote:But if you don't give them these upgrades, they're not very good.

You got it! Exactly my point.

Sirath wrote:
Explain to me why you would ever bother with a splinter cannon? 10pts for two storm bolters sounds a poor trade off.

afireinside13t wrote:They're assault weapons, so you can fire them out of moving transports and have a higher strength and output than splinter rifles. Dark Eldar have some of the cheapest and best special weapons going, you should really take advantage of them.

No you can only fire weapons from any vehicle if you go 6" or less. Regardless if it is a fast vehicle or not. It silly but thats the rule.
10pts for a Splinter cannon just screams meh! to me. Same with the Shredder.

Sirath wrote:What is the point in having a Lance AND a Blaster? They are mutually exclusive weapons

I somewhat agree with this (well, rather I say they are exclusively 'ranged' weapons. They both have the same purpose) It really depends on how you use your squads and raiders. Since it is now apparent that you always disembark your mini snipers this makes some sense, but if you stay in the Raider the Blaster becomes much more useful.

The Haemonculi each take an empty raider while the warrior-dark lance squads camp at home.

The missing plasma grenades are due to lack of a spare point.

What do you have your Haemys assault? If something is in cover isn't it usually easier just to flame it from the Raider? I guess I can see some functionality to tying things up, but I'm not sure what I'd want to try to assault solo with a Haemonculi.

I have found Mandrakes to be very useful. Absolutley unstoppable. You can deliver 56 St3 attacks anywhere on the board. I feel Dark Eldar lack in anti horde, so the 'drakes + 2 Destructors mitigate this.

56 Str 3 attacks? They're only 3 attacks off the charge and you only have 14 of them all told, so we're talking 42 unless my math is really failing me.

Vs. Orks (since I can't think of another horde you'll meet within 30-36"

On average 21 attacks hit, 7 wound versus toughness 4, 1.16 is saved for 6 wounds.
Orks swing back (let's presume a mob of 20 shoota boyz, not 30, and now 6 are dead). 13 hit, 6.5 wound, 2.1 save for 4 wounds. Ork Nob w. klaw swings, 1.5 hits, 1.25 wounds. One fearless wound for the Orks and then you're locked in h2h (which is at least good because you won't be shot, but at this stage the Orks are about as likely to win the fight as the Mandrakes in subsequent rounds).
This does not seem like a total win for the Mandrakes and I feel this is a fight that is set up in their favor (20 shoota Boyz is not something your anti-horde units that cost 205 should have any problem with - 20 Orks w. Nob, pole, and klaw is like 160).

You'll do better vs. IG (well, some flavors of their infantry) or Fire Warriors of course. But neither of those units are likely to be pressing the line so you're pretty much hoping for DoW deployment to get something happening here. I just don't really see the winning strategy here.

If they work for you then more power to you. I'll happily stick to my Wyches. Do you happen to have any batreps you can post showing the effectiveness of them in battle? I would very much like to see it so I can see how you use them and against what sort of targets and how they work out for you. In defense of Wyches I will show you this batrep of mine vs. Orks. You'll see two Wych engagements. One of them is against a Loota squad - which is not optimal for Wyches and has them suffering for the battle (I just really needed to stop the Loota shooting) The other Wych fight is against Ghaz and the remains of his mob and showcases the Wyches doing what they do best, which is locking down and picking on a powerful character/unit - if not for a trukk mob I have full belief I would have kept Ghaz trapped for the rest of the game or killed him. I think your negativity towards Wyches might spawn from you trying to use them as anti-horde, which they are indeed terrible at (I just also believe Mandrakes are bad at it too)

Thor665 wrote:

5 Wyches - 2 Blasters
70
+ Raider - Dark Lance
55

They've got to be receiving the Archon here, as it's the only way to explain why you didn't give them an Agoniser. I will note that including Wych Weapons is very affordable and also makes the squad much more survivable because they start shutting down WS and bonus attacks.

Meh, after you have paid for Agoniser + Sybarite/Succubus + Plasma Grenades + More warm bodies you have almost doubled the cost of the squad. I am going for MSU so this doesnt track.

You don't need to pay for extra bodies (again, as noted, Wyches aren't horde killers - though if you're content to dual assault things with your Mandrakes you can do the same for Wyches and the Wyches will do better then the Drakes) I personally run my Wych squads at 7 at the most and prefer 6 and have had success with 5. They do give you two blasters and an Agoniser which is amazing value for what you pay for the unit, plus you get a Raider which is another huge boost to your mobility and capability to threaten armor. The Wych Weapons are exceedingly cheap and are amazing because they shut down other units (hey, your WS is halved, try to hit me on 5 now. Also, you get one less attack each round, good luck killing me)

Explain to me why you would ever bother with a splinter cannon? 10pts for two storm bolters sounds a poor trade off.

Wow, I'm having a discussion with another player on his army list and he wants me to explain why I think he needs Blasters. If all you're using your Gunboats for is anti-armor then why not just buy a dark lance? If you're using them for anti-infantry then the advantages of the s.cannon feel apparent. The optimal place for a gunboat is within 12" to make use of the Blaster. Since they are anti horde and you are using s.rifles why would you not want to double the shots and increase the Str value of one of those additional passengers?

Its 5, 9, 13 or 17 that are the optimal numbers.

I was speaking about a Raider squad, so clearly 13 and 17 are out. I will admit I probably should have mentioned 9. I did leave out 5 because 5 is an affordability optimum, not a survivability one.

5 is only optimal as the 'cheapest' option. 9 is good. 6 is a clear and high quality blend of cheap and survivable.
You morale check at 25% casualties and cannot recover past 50% casualties.

25% for 5 men is - 1
25% for 9 men is - 3
25% for 6 men is - 2 (and it won't get better till 9)

50% for 5 men is - 3
50% for 9 men is - 5
50% for 6 men is - 4 (and it won't get better till 9)

So for optimal value to morale check benefits 6 man squads are clearly in strong contention.
I still think the Gunboat squads will gain more benefit from having more bodies - since their your points spent for extra bodies are offensive points, and for sniper squads they are defensive points. I think when building MSU you should always spend points on offensive tools over defensive since your MSU strategy is already a defensive tool inherently. The concept is you kill them before they kill all of you. Glass hammer.

Thor665 wrote:

3 Reaver Jetbikes - 2 Blasters
95

I like these but I will note that if you have the models an additional troop slot will be better for you and basically cost just as much (Warrior squad of 10 with 2 lances or Raider squad of 5 with one lance and a lance Raider)

Hrmm, would you keep one and drop the other for the aformentioned troops units?

I would. Troops are more survivable then RJBs and also anything an RJB squad can do one of our Troop slots can do for equivalent points. Since RJBs cannot serve as a scoring unit that, to my mind, clearly paints Warrior/Raider squads as superior. The purpose of RJBs (and to a lesser extent Retinues) is to serve as added units after you've already filled all 6 troop slots. If you have RJBs and an empty troop slot your list could be better.