Master of the Forge Kaiser - Leader of the Crimson Leaves

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**JSK-Fox**

Master of the Forge Kaiser - 300 Points (subject to change)
WS: 4
BS:7
S: 5
T: 4
W: 3
I: 2
A: 2
Ld: 10
Armour Sv: 2+

Composition:
1 Unique

Type:
Infantry

Wargear:
Atificer Armour

The Arms of Justice:
A Servo-Harness that uses 8 arms, 4 normal servo-arms, and 1 of each of the following:
Lascannon
Meltagun
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Only 2 weapons can be fired, in addition to any other weapons.

The Blade of Storms:
A very powerful and relatively quick Sword, jolting with electricity, counts as a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2 on the charge (Only if he gets the charge. If he is assaulted, no bonus.).

The Emperor's Will:
A nasty Boltgun, with minor ranged and strength adjustments.
Range: 30"
S: 5
AP: 4
Type: Rapid Fire

Heavy Flux Generator:
All units in the same unit as Master of the Forge Kaiser, including himself, get a 5+ invulnerable save.

Frag Grenades

Special Rules:
Chapter Tactics:
If you have Master of the Forge Kaiser in your army, then the Combat Tactics rule is replaced with Tank Hunters. This is due to their love of technology. They know the ins and outs of every vehicle in the unniverse, and aren't afraid to exploit their weaknesses.
Independent Character
And They Shall Know No Fear
Eternal Warrior - He is an Eternal Warrior due to the vast amount of machinery that is attached to him, essentially preventing such a nasty wound.
Relentless
Bolster Defences
Blessing of the Omnissiah
Inquisitor's got the wrong co-ordinates again... - Whenever allied with an inquisitor, roll a d6. Upon a six, the Inquisitor has gotten side-tracked and misses the battle, and is removed from the game.

He's also the Chapter Master
How many points whould this bloke be?
He is named after me

I originally wanted to replace the combat tactics with relentless, but that would be way too OP.

**Shas'O Dorian**

He can't be chapter master, That's Pedro Kantor, also I don't thimk MotF can be Chapter Master, his duties & time are taken up caring for all the chapters vehicles. He'd be between 175 & 225 points IMO also he can't reduce the WS of opponents WS to 0, just say he always hits on 3+ in melee and the ability to give everything DS is kind of broken. I'd remove that.

**JSK-Fox**

Crud. I meant different chapter.

My chapter is the Crimson Leaves, not Crimson Fists.
FETH! I have shamed the SM.

But thanks for replying.

**Shas'O Dorian**

lol it's ok. Like I said the ability for all infantry to DS is kind of OP. Also I said 175-225 as that's where most of the special characters fall.
Maybe to keep him in line with other characters (like lysander) let any unit he joins (or embarks in) receive +1 BS because of his advanced targeting system which he uses to direct the squads fire.

**FlingitNow**

Why is he an ET that just sounds like you've thrown it in there because you wnat your all powerful character. Dump ET and he should cost about 200 points. Also change the The Omnissiah's Lightning to making them Ws1 not Ws0.

**Praxiss**

I woudl go with lowering their initiative rather than lowering their WS, but that's just me.

Sevro harness with H.Flamer and a twin-linked missiel launcher? Ouchie. This and the uber-stormbolter both seem a bit OP to me (assault 2, S 6, AP 3). I guess it coudl work but you woudl have to price him pretty high.

**JSK-Fox**

Thanks for the advice.
I will be changing them right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FlingitNow wrote:Why is he an ET that just sounds like you've thrown it in there because you wnat your all powerful character. Dump ET and he should cost about 200 points. Also change the The Omnissiah's Lightning to making them Ws1 not Ws0.

What is an ET?
I'm new to the hobby, and have only started a month ago, so I have no fething clue what an ET is.
(Unless it's Xenos Scum!)

And the WS is fixed on the weapon.

**Strimen**

the twin-linked missile lanucher isn't too bad since he won't be able to fire it on the move as its still a heavy weapon. But this guys weak spot over the normal master of the forge is that he will have to stand still to fire. And the storm bolter effectively is all he can fire on the move (where as a normal tech could fire a bolter and twin-plasma or twin plasma and flamer on the move) so the heavier weapons just shifts this guys focus. Not to much of point increase for the weapons alone. However the rest of the abilities do require a decent point increase.

**Shas'O Dorian**

I think he meant Eternal Warrior. Also why not give him the conversion beam like other MotF?

**FlingitNow**

Yeah ET is short for Eternal warrior.

Oh and Stirmen he'll still be able to fire his AP3 storm bolter and his heavy flamer on the move.

**JSK-Fox**

The SB is now AP 4. I am actually going to do the model today, so I have no time to make a conversion beamer /shrug . Also, I'll change the ML into something a little more managable, such as a meltagun or something.

**JSK-Fox**

Bump!!!
I am reviving this thread, so I can post the new idea I have.
I need help finding out how many points he may cost.

**MekanobSamael**

So he's WS 7, with 3 attacks S9 I6 that force rerolls on invulnerable saves, 4 attacks S10 I2, and 4 attacks S10 I1, all of which ignore armor.

He can fire two heavy weapons, two short-range special weapons, and three I-dunno-what at once, every turn (being Relentless).

He has T6, making him hard to hurt, Eternal Warrior, making him impossible to insta-kill, and W5, making him extremely difficult to kill.

He has the hitting power of two carnifex, shooting that the IG would pay 95 points for plus three short-range lascannons, plus relentless, at BS 7, and is as tough as the Swarmlord, plus Eternal Warrior.

I'd let you field him for maybe 415 points. This is essentially the Swarmlord, minus all the synapse and psychic nonsense, replaced by the cost of his insanely abusive shooting and tripling the attacks.

**Quintinus**

MekanobSamael wrote:So he's WS 7, with 3 attacks S9 I6 that force rerolls on invulnerable saves, 4 attacks S10 I2, and 4 attacks S10 I1, all of which ignore armor.

He can fire two heavy weapons, two short-range special weapons, and three I-dunno-what at once, every turn (being Relentless).

He has T6, making him hard to hurt, Eternal Warrior, making him impossible to insta-kill, and W5, making him extremely difficult to kill.

He has the hitting power of two carnifex, shooting that the IG would pay 95 points for plus three short-range lascannons, plus relentless, at BS 7, and is as tough as the Swarmlord, plus Eternal Warrior.

I'd let you field him for maybe 415 points. This is essentially the Swarmlord, minus all the synapse and psychic nonsense, replaced by the cost of his insanely abusive shooting and tripling the attacks.

Thank you for summing up my thoughts on the matter.

Oh, and he's better than a Daemon Prince. And Mephiston. And Abaddon. And even a C'tan.

**grayspark**

This is basically you just sticking a ton of things into a single character...

Not something for a serious "Proposed rule"

I have a friend who does this... nobody likes playing games with him very much because he insists he gets to use his made up crap that's overpowered. Of course he won't admit that it's rigged to hell...

**Norade**

Honestly it's an unfocused mess that nobody in their right mind would play against. It's written as if it was some thirteen your old kids who couldn't wins way to finally get a victory. I sure hope the people you game with are more tolerant than I am because if you're the type of person you seem to be from your character I'd never play you.

I would suggest starting with a sane idea and working from there if you want actual advice in the future.

**JSK-Fox**

I am of course not going to field this.
I will change many things easily.
He only can fire 2 of the weapons now, as well as the t.l. boltgun he has now.

**sebster**

Norade wrote:Honestly it's an unfocused mess that nobody in their right mind would play against. It's written as if it was some thirteen your old kids who couldn't wins way to finally get a victory.

Not everyone plays for the sake of winning, a lot of people because they like the idea of playing around in the world, and putting their own special characters into games. Such is the nature of things that those characters are almost always overpowered, but it isn't because they just want to win. They just like the idea of awesome characters.

JSK-Fox - is there are reason this character of yours is more powerful than just about every special character in the game? I mean, I get the idea of a bit wish fulfilment, but there is a limit, you know. Why not strip him back to a couple of heavy weapons only, back to ST and T 5, make his blade like a standard thunder hammer, and make his Tank Hunters ability the thing that makes him distinct.

**FlingitNow**

Not everyone plays for the sake of winning, a lot of people because they like the idea of playing around in the world, and putting their own special characters into games. Such is the nature of things that those characters are almost always overpowered, but it isn't because they just want to win. They just like the idea of awesome characters.

Yes but this character is OP beyond beleif or reason and has no real reason for being so beyond wish fulfilment.

Anyone could just say look I have this idea for a charcter with is for no real reason the most powerful model in the history of the game... That is neither fun for anyone nor creative in any way. When creating your own Special Character like this should should create fluff for them and let that drive the rules, the result should be more balanced or at least some way justified.

**JSK-Fox**

I'm putting him at a lower toughness and such now.

**Norade**

sebster wrote:
Norade wrote:Honestly it's an unfocused mess that nobody in their right mind would play against. It's written as if it was some thirteen your old kids who couldn't wins way to finally get a victory.

Not everyone plays for the sake of winning, a lot of people because they like the idea of playing around in the world, and putting their own special characters into games. Such is the nature of things that those characters are almost always overpowered, but it isn't because they just want to win. They just like the idea of awesome characters.

JSK-Fox - is there are reason this character of yours is more powerful than just about every special character in the game? I mean, I get the idea of a bit wish fulfilment, but there is a limit, you know. Why not strip him back to a couple of heavy weapons only, back to ST and T 5, make his blade like a standard thunder hammer, and make his Tank Hunters ability the thing that makes him distinct.

There's a huge difference between this and a fluffy character that was designed between to consenting players. That is unless those players are each very young or play EPIC OVERPOWERED JUNK WITH NO FLUFF HAMMER 40K!!1!!one!

If this had any fluff attached, reasons given for why these choices were made, even a statement that such characters are common among his group I would have taken this in a different way. Most players play fluffy lists, by the rules for fun, or play tournament focused lists. There is a very small subset that care very little for the rules and build fluffy characters for their armies for fun. Then there is this, this is, in my opinion, simply an attempt to see what the most powerful character he could post and not take flak for here. Then he could go to his friends and say 'People on the interwbz likes my character so I cun use it."

**JSK-Fox**

Uh, have any of you payed any attention to what I have recently posted?
His stats have been lowered significantly, and will be lowered a bit more in a jiffy.

**Norade**

JSK-Fox wrote:Uh, have any of you payed any attention to what I have recently posted?
His stats have been lowered significantly, and will be lowered a bit more in a jiffy.

Have you read what I said? Add some fluff and we can help you find a dirrection for this guy.

**JSK-Fox**

Okay, must have misread your post.
Oops.

Well, this guy is essentially more machine than man, with about 56% mechanical parts attached to him. He has a massive servo-harness, and has an unatural love for large, death-dealing vehicles. He acts like a MotF in the sense that he lets you have dreads in HS. He has all the abilities of a MotF as well, but no Conversion Beamer. All the machinery makes him immune to instant death, Relentless because he has a lot of assisting cybernetic implants, and knows plenty about every vehicle in the universe.
Also, he loves, uh, 'special' massages from Eldar ladies...
Let's just say his Chapter is one corrupt Chapter Master short of a Heresy.

**FlingitNow**

Well, this guy is essentially more machine than man, with about 56% mechanical parts attached to him. He has a massive servo-harness, and has an unatural love for large, death-dealing vehicles. He acts like a MotF in the sense that he lets you have dreads in HS. He has all the abilities of a MotF as well, but no Conversion Beamer. All the machinery makes him immune to instant death, Relentless because he has a lot of assisting cybernetic implants, and knows plenty about every vehicle in the universe.
Also, he loves, uh, 'special' massages from Eldar ladies...
Let's just say his Chapter is one corrupt Chapter Master short of a Heresy.

Given that fluff make him I1 and Ws4, 5 tops, all those attachments will really slow him down and whilst making him an unstoppable gun boat he's unlikely to also be a nimble warrior too!

Make him slow an purposeful, give him ZERO attacks so all his CC prowess comes from those 4 Servo arms. But make those Servo-arms S10.

Remove his IC status and then bump him back to T6 and then this character is starting to make sense. Remember for every advantage you give him there should be some disadvantage or draw back or balance.

**Shas'O Dorian**

I'd take the BS down to 5. Mainly because vindicare assassins (Best shots in the imperium) are only BS 5. Also GW seems to be moving away from anything above BS 5.

**JSK-Fox**

One thing to remeber is that he will be mounted on a massive base, and he will cost tons of points.
I will modify his CC stats, but he won't be slow and purposeful.
This is because (sarcasm, btw) he knows his 15+ Eldar/Human Mistresses are waiting for him right after the battle...

Also, Vindicaires aint got nothing on targeting syste... Oh hi there inquisitor!

And for more fluff, his chapter is well known for hating the inquisition. Many an Inquisitor has found themselves with a poop-filled helmet after they inspect the Chapter.
Medals are given out to the people who can unleash the most in one sitting.

**grayspark**

And for more fluff, his chapter is well known for hating the inquisition. Many an Inquisitor has found themselves with a poop-filled helmet after they inspect the Chapter.
Medals are given out to the people who can unleash the most in one sitting.

Erm... alright then...

I'd say if you really want to use something like this, especially in a fluff setting, then try playing Inquisitor... I play it a lot with my friends when we're doing campaigns, and the fact that your person apparently hates the Inquisition suits the game perfectly...

But really, even with your apparent "changes" you're going to make too this character still makes him over complicated and overpowered...

**Quintinus**

Looking much, much better now.

Might want to add that he should never be able to ally with Daemon or Witch hunters.

I'd cost him in the 230-260 point range. If it were me, anyway.

**JSK-Fox**

Oh thanks guys.
He doesn't mind the grey knights, he likes their armour (he even has a similar helmet) and he, uh... loves Witch Hunters

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A bit of funny fluff added. He is allowed to be allied with an inquisition force, but many an Inquisitor that has fought by his side ends up in a nice wooden box.