Advancing my Dark Eldar Army

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**SwanCo**

i currently have 751 pts of dark eldar and am working on making it into atleast a tourny playable army (usually around 1850pts)

while looking through the dex i was thinking that i may enjoy playing a different style then the common airforce and wych cult gameplay.

What are your opinions on webway portals to bring in troops? are the reliable enough? and as far as elites go, i want to for atleast one choice (maybe two) bring in mandrakes instead of wyches to kinda throw the deployment off.

Any suggestions on why/why not these would be affective?

Thank you much
-SwanCo

**Mellon**

As I usually do when people ask about DE I refer to the wonderful tactica that is available at the Articles section. Great reding. http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica

My experience of DE is pretty limited. Only one opponent in my close range ever played them. He tried various footslogger versions and the sad conclusion was that DE are simply too fragile. They need their raiders to stya alive and drect the battle.

Webway was only tried a few times. The model deploying it can't move or shoot in the turn it is deployed. It can only deploy one unit per turn and it was usually placed either far out of harms way, so the unit would be of no use, or it was placed in a forward position where I could shoot at the new unit. It is a very fun idea, but unfortunately not very useful.

The codex age is telling, so the only way to be truly mighty in a torunament setting is to use the few advantages that is still powerful, such as cheap lances and fast skimmers.

However if you think you will enjoy playing with it, feel free to experiment. It's not like my opponent auto-lost the moment he deployed with less than 8 raiders. A decent shot at winning is imho quite enough to enjoy playing a game.

**Dashofpepper**

Thor665 and Clthomps are the resident DE geniuses.

I would get ahold of them to get help.

**Mellon**

Indeed. I think it's Thor665 who has written the tactica.

**SwanCo**

i read Thor's tactica back in the day before starting my DE force and it has helped me considerably, i just want to see if there is anyway from having to drop a huge amount of cash on raiders to have a succesful army. thanks for the comments so far

i'll look at the tactica again and see if there are any refinements to the ideas i've i had that i can make

**Rymafyr**

I realized the importance of Raiders early on. Footslogging is not at all preferred. Webway portals are a waste of 50pts IMHO. I've used them and quickly decided it's not worth the effort.

Mandrakes can be useful but only to psyche out your opponent. Once they are revealed, they'll still die as quickly as troops in decent cover.

Grotesques were a pimp way of hiding units back in 3rd edition and are all but useless in 5th. Yeah, they'll give a unit cover but so will any other unit. So I say Raider Squads out the wazoo. For 55 pts. you get great mobility and a nice hvy weapon.

The only thing that has made me re-think things is going w/ shredders in squads instead of blasters.

**SwanCo**

kay, thanks for the input. I wasnt planning on using grotesques, and i guess i'll just end up with another airforce army. i was kinda worried that mandrakes were only good at psyking out the enemy, but i'll try em out anyways seeing as i think they're cool looking XD

**Morgrim**

Talos are surprisingly good, I've found. If you can get them close without being shot up they make brilliant can openners against landraiders and actually hurt monoliths. But I have a great fondness for them. I tend to use odd lists and tactics since I currently only own 3 raiders, they're expensive, a pain to transport and take me a month to paint each...

**Rymafyr**

True, Talos got beefed up in 5th ed. since they are now considered MC's. A good call imho. I have no fear now of taking on a dread with one as I will likely rip it to shreds. 7+2D6+(1 for every one of it's D6 attacks that hits) = a roll from 9 to 24 for penetration. That's well over 66% chance of penetrating the MoFo's now with a succesful hit. On another note my DE performed very well against some GK today in an 1850pt battle.

Another change I made to my Troops was to take and assign a Haemonoculous to each Raider Squad, up to 3 total squads obviously. It's great to have a template weapon at the disposal of my regular troops especially when rolling 3 and less on my Destructor's AP scores.

**SwanCo**

i thought haemonculi were independant of any other squads? o.o But i'll look into getting a talos. i'm looking around on ebay for some new stuff to get as of now to expand my force somewhat cheap (ebay as well as chaosorc superstore of course) and am still in a spot of trouble trying to build my army due to cost reasons. relatively soon though i should start building up a noteworthy force in which i hope to include three ravagers (two with lances one with dissis) a bunch more raiders, some mandrakes and some wyches...hopefully that will be able to widen my army's ability to fight a buncha different stuff

**Clthomps**

You Rang?

Well to be honest with you at 1850 points DE are at their weakest, without losing raiders. If you still want to try it I would run this:

1850 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

1 Urien Rakarth @ 175 pts ((C

E, pg. 40); Poison Blades; Stinger; Destructor; Crucible of Malediction )
. . 5 Uber Grotesques

1 Archon @ 250 pts (Combat Drug Dispenser; Shadow Field; Tormentor Helm; Trophy Rack; Punisher; Archangel of Pain)
. . 7 Grotesques

10 Warrior Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster x2; Splinter Rifle x6; Splinter Cannon x2)

10 Warrior Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster x2; Splinter Rifle x6; Splinter Cannon x2)

10 Warrior Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster x2; Splinter Rifle x6; Splinter Cannon x2)

10 Warrior Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster x2; Splinter Rifle x6; Splinter Cannon x2)

10 Warrior Squad @ 100 pts (Splinter Rifle x8; Dark Lance x2)

10 Warrior Squad @ 100 pts (Splinter Rifle x8; Dark Lance x2)

5 Wyches @ 122 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
. . 1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))

5 Wyches @ 122 pts (Close Combat Weapon; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Blaster x2; Combat Drugs; Plasma Grenades)
. . 1 Succubus (Agoniser; Splinter Pistol; Wych Weapons; Plasma Grenades (Squad))

5 Scourges @ 180 pts (Splinter Rifle x1; Dark Lance x4)

5 Scourges @ 180 pts (Splinter Rifle x1; Dark Lance x4)

5 Scourges @ 180 pts (Splinter Rifle x1; Dark Lance x4)

Total Roster Cost: 1849

Is there any way you could get maybe 3-4 raiders? If so I would try a webway list, but without them its not viable.

**Morgrim**

Building up 15 scourges would make it cheaper to drop some for a raider or two. Maybe swap out for a ravanger. Then again I have barely 1400 points and been collecting for two years. Just... slowly.

**Erasoketa**

Mellon wrote:Webway was only tried a few times. The model deploying it can't move or shoot in the turn it is deployed. It can only deploy one unit per turn and it was usually placed either far out of harms way, so the unit would be of no use, or it was placed in a forward position where I could shoot at the new unit. It is a very fun idea, but unfortunately not very useful.

Webway portal is not limited to one unit per turn. You can use it like your border of the table to deploy reserves. If reserves are not allowed by the mission, DE reserves can only be deployed via webway portal. If deserves are allowed, then you can choose. This is dangerous, a fellow DE player deployed only two Raider squads, in a mission without reserves. The other player destroyed the ride and the load of the only squad whose sybarite had a webway portal. My buddy couldn't deploy anything else so... he lost in turn 2, when the other squad was destroyed.

@OP if you want to use Webway Portal it's ok, but take 2 of them, and protect them. If you don't, you will be in trouble soon. I have 2 units of Scourges, 1 unit of Hellions and 1 unit of Grotesques. This units are not very popular, but I use them sometimes. I will probably get my ass kicked that game, but changing is fun sometimes

**Mellon**

Oh, cool. Then me and my friend played the webway portal the wrong way. With those rules it actually becomes rather useful. I think I'll have to call him and tell him he should have won a few more games :-)

**Clthomps**

Morgrim wrote:Building up 15 scourges would make it cheaper to drop some for a raider or two. Maybe swap out for a ravanger. Then again I have barely 1400 points and been collecting for two years. Just... slowly.

He is trying to build a foot slogger list. Also only having 3-4 armor 10 open top vehicles in 1850 points is really dumb.

**Rymafyr**

Clthomps,

I'm genuinely interested in your logic for taking a Punisher for the Archon? The only thing I can think of is using +1 Str on your Drugs which would then give the Archon Str 5. This would be good against normal T4 models obviously.

I tend to still favor the Agonizer since it always wounds on a 4+ and costs the same. That way if I have to put the Archon against something really tough, I've got a good chance to kill it.

I'm wondering if I've missed something there...

I do like the idea w/ the Scourges, I tend to like fielding full squads and well tbh, they're way to expensive for that since they will die as easily as troops. Fielding 3 squads really isn't a bad way to go I just wish I'd ordered more of the wings when I had the chance. Ofc...I could convert those remaining 5 Scourges w/ rifles to be lances...hmmm.

**SwanCo**

I was planning on maybe having 3-5 raiders (i already have one) and then some footsloggers. as far as scourges go i've honestly never even though of using them an just kinda shoo'd them away along with hellions. I can see how having the scourges would be nice though to throw down some extra heavy fire though. Now as far as urien Rakath and his grotesques go...im just not big on the whole "roll and see if you move" thing...seems too unreliable to me. I was planning on either taking a dracon with more incubi or 2-3 haemonculi. i'm still welcome to more suggestions and am taking in everything you guys are saying into account for my next buy (i'll prolly start looking for something new in 2-3 weeks).

Thank you all for the help and all of your suggestions are welcome!

-SwanCo

**Rymafyr**

Well, if the Grotesques are w/ a Haemonoculous you don't have to roll to see if you move them. They're only stupid if they're on their own.

The scourges Clthomps put together would maximize the number of DL's in the army for your heavies slot, so 12 instead of 9. Ofc, you'll spend 150-225 more points for those 3 squads than you would for 3 ravagers.

I really should finish up the last raider for troops..it's been sitting undone for 5 years now...

**Clthomps**

If you insist on playing 1850 points with a low raider count I would buy raiders for the HQs and elites, and just use them as mobile terrain with lances on them.

The punisher is on the Archon because he should not be charging high toughness units, anything with T5+ is going to be able to instakill his grots and is therefor should be charged by the wyches.

**Erasoketa**

Agoniser is good against high toughness units, but only against them. If for a critical error you are assaulted by gretchin (LOL) you would still wound on 4+. Ok, you can choose not to use the agoniser that turn but...

I think the best place to put an agoniser is in wyches squad leaders. Be it wyches in raiders, reaver jetbikes or whatever.

**SwanCo**

so i think what i'll do as far as HQ's go is get Urien and have him take grotesques, and then take my Archon and a squad of incubi. now as far as incubi go what are your opinions on bringing in Drazhar, Master of blades. is he worth the extra points? sounds like a sweetdeal to me but still...90 points is quite a bit

**Clthomps**

I would not take incubi in a footslogging list since they can't fleet. Also I feel you will need more grotq than one unit to give cover to the rest of your squads.

**SwanCo**

well like i said above, i'm planning on taking a few raiders (enough for HQ's plus prolly some wyches) so thats why i plan on taking incubi, i can get them up quick and then throw the raider aside as cover o.o but maybe it wouldnt work as well as planned? as far as my archon having grotesques in a retinue, he can only have either warriors or incubi according to the dex...

**Rymafyr**

Clthomps wrote:The punisher is on the Archon because he should not be charging high toughness units, anything with T5+ is going to be able to instakill his grots and is therefor should be charged by the wyches.

Cool info thanks...I don't usually go after anything that would be >T5 when using my Archon, so it's good to know.

**Clthomps**

If you actually mount anything in a only a few raiders at 1850 they will get shot to pieces turn 1, since all of his anti tank will have nothing better to shoot at.

Best case scenario you lose first turn and the boats blow up leaving the riders alive.

Worst case, you go first move the raiders in front with riders on them, they blow up get and get shot to piece in the middle of the board.

Like I said if you have a couple of raider the best thing you can do with them is use them as mobile terrain. For 55 points you can block LoS on your whole army for a turn, well worth the cost.

**SwanCo**

well...hmm this is quite a sticky situation... i am planning on eventually getting a whole bunch of raiders. i just dont have the cash and will prolly play a tourny at some point before i get them.
@Clthomps if anything i'll prolly end up using a list similar to that one you posted earlier. I would stll like more imporvements to any lists though and more suggestions always welcome

**Insanityphr33k**

i love those raiders so much <3 lol

in all honesty they look great as a model and play well, same with the ravagers.

now if there is a new DE codex i hope those ravagers can be in squadrons...because 27 plasma cannons is retardedly evil

**SwanCo**

hahaha that would be so beautiful

i would like some new models and a new dex, but i'm worried if we get a new one it'll turn the DE upside down since its been so long, and i dont wanna re-learn an army i'm still in the process of learning..and it would be a bummer to have to play with my old minis and see the new ones all around

hmmm...i wish raiders weren't so expensive >.< i'm gonna have to like buy some in bulk from ebay or something

**Rymafyr**

After my game last week that went so well and this post...I've been inspired to finish my last Raider Squad. I'll be fielding about 8 including 2 Ravagers. Trying to customize this last one for my HQ and figured I might as well consolidate all the unassigned Troops to a new unit.

Now if I could only get to finishing those last two Hellions, where I used regular Witches on the skyboards.

**SwanCo**

Rymafyr wrote:
Now if I could only get to finishing those last two Hellions, where I used regular Witches on the skyboards.

are hellions worth it? i can't decide whether to use them or not