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Is this all going to drop at once? For example are the 15 mm arms going to sit waiting on the other q2 items?

I also can't imagine the Stuka or Zeus taking long at all, since they should be just an alternate sprue or two.

Are Stuka/Zeus going to an upgrade pack for the app or complete kits?

One of his posts a while back hinted it was complete right when they were shipping the second wave, not absolutely sure but I think it was done at the same time as the crusader because they share so much of the main body.

You know, I pre-ordered the Imperial Knight, but I'm actually liking the crusader sculpt.... and it's half the cost oO

Wish my local shop (GW) wasn't so anal about bringing non-GW bits.

Half the cost, 50% larger, much more pose-able, you don't vomit giving money to the company... so many upsides ; p

Thanks for the update Mark, good to see things progressing.

 Yonan wrote:
Half the cost, 50% larger, much more pose-able, you don't vomit giving money to the company... so many upsides ; p

Thanks for the update Mark, good to see things progressing.

I bought one with the cooler stacks and another arm. Should be a fun build

They are fun builds, just check the website because there were some parts mislabeled and it will get confusing. Plus both models have big accessible spots in them to put batteries and run l.e.d. If you like

Might buy some of the minis as well, they look like cool sculpts. I'm guessing there is a narrative/backstory for everything being developed?

 Conrad Turner wrote:
Didn't say they were connected. I was saying that things could be much worse. Ok, they are not going as smoothly as anyone hoped for, but it's not a steaming pile of horse either.

Yeah, look. RRT is so far 2 months late. DFG stuff is 9 months late on wave 3. The new update makes it seem like it might be 13 months late when it delivers, hopefully, at best.

I'm going to skip the rest of your post as it's basically just angry defence, hurfblurfing, and not really relevant. Well, about as relevant as your rant about RRT was. Basically, with really late projects like this I forget they exist for awhile, then remember and really wonder where the feth my stuff is, or at least what the status is of my stuff. Especially when it's been quite awhile since any updates. Thankfully, we've just gotten one. Which essentially says "another four months".

I will agree that Mark has been pretty decent with communication (most of the time) and is always personable which is basically the only reason I'm still rather supportive of DFG as opposed to having the same opinion of him as I do of McVey.

ncshooter426 wrote:
I bought one with the cooler stacks and another arm. Should be a fun build

I've been considering moving my crusader up the to-do list... just for funsies. Does anyone know if there is a guide on assembly order, for ease of assembly and painting? Or is it staright forward assemble the entire chassis but leave armour and head off. Airbrush chassis, airbrush armour, airbrush head. Do any drybrushing, washing, detailing, weathering on them separately, then glue on the armour?

 Azazelx wrote:
I will agree that Mark has been pretty decent with communication (most of the time) and is always personable which is basically the only reason I'm still rather supportive of DFG as opposed to having the same opinion of him as I do of McVey.

Yep, the delay has been pretty hard to swallow, especially given projects commissioned after DFG have been completed first. I assume there are substantial business reasons for this - WGF was struggling before the take over, and I assume they needed to take projects on to stay afloat, possibly combined with a very low profit (or even loss) on the DFG kickstarter contract. These are valid reasons, but still not ideal for us customers/"investors". And we can only hope Mark and DFG follows through with that KS backer coupon (and shipping from China for Aussies) when wave 3 is ready. Still <3 Mark though, top bloke. However annoying it's been for us, it's been annoying and more importantly really stressful on him I imagine, so I can't help but go easy on him ; p

I do have one question. I hear a lot of talk about the posability of the leviathans, but they always seam to be built in the most boring just standing there pose? Why?

Storage mostly. I did plan to have one emerging out of the sand but couldn't figure out how to pull off the pouring sand.I did end up coming up with a much better idea though which Ill show shortly.

As for the detail thing well... its more of a canvas really. I don't think people have really done anything nearly exciting enough with the Leviathan or Mortis and I think thats mainly due to the size. I think its a little off putting to try something adventurous when its so big.

 Yonan wrote:
Does anyone know if there is a guide on assembly order, for ease of assembly and painting? Or is it staright forward assemble the entire chassis but leave armour and head off. Airbrush chassis, airbrush armour, airbrush head. Do any drybrushing, washing, detailing, weathering on them separately, then glue on the armour?

There is a Youtube set of build guides here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj-ntcjpVU

The guy is a little soft spoken, and has huge sausage fingers, but does a nice job putting it together. One part he didn't tighten the screws enough, and brings that out. It's a little long, but a good tut.

Nice to see that there is some progress on the wave 3 stuff. I am most looking forward to those Valkir guys, no idea how many I ordered so it will be a nice surprise when they show up.

And in the subject of delays, try the Trollforge ks. I don't know many dakkites other than RiTides and myself who backed but it has been a year since everything should have shipped and we haven't received anything yet! Honestly though I don't even want the models any more as the whole experience has become very stale...

Anyway, sorry for the OT, I'll just go home now and wait for my leviathan to show up in the post.

Did you choose Wave 3 shipping? That must be hard seeing them in the store for a year before you get it...

Yeah, there was an update a while ago where you could get your stuff from the first 2 waves shipped to you instead of waiting for everything to come in all at once because of the delays.
Thankfully I only had up to wave 2 items.

Yeah, KS is a mixed bag for everyone, the customer and the KS creator.

For the customer:
Long delays are common and the possibility of failure and the loss of funds is a possibility. Communication can be an issue and many times you are seeing renders, not the true end product, so it can be a gamble

For the KS creator:
Everything takes more time and costs more than you anticipate, shipping is a killer… no really… a killer to the bottom line. Balancing your needs and desires vs the customer’s desires can sometimes be challenging. Trying to keep your backers informed once you involve other parties can be a challenge. Not getting something right and the costs associated with correcting that are compounded by the number of backers.

KS as a tool:
Great advertising tool and great tool to get many kits in the hands of people in a short time but I often wonder if sales direct into distribution are not more advantageous to the creator than doing a KS; if they can afford to do it without a KS. It spreads the costs and work load more effectively across the distribution chain and honestly you make more $$ going that rout and you do not piss off the retailers and supply chain. The main benefit I see from a manufacturer’s point of view is IF your KS is successful you get a lot of hype, hype that is noticed by other customers and the supply chain managers.

KS used as intended works great! When you do not have the funds to even get your project off the ground, there is no better way than a KS (assuming you have done your homework and know your costs). Going the traditional bank rout is not an option for even some established companies as you may not have the history of large capital gains from whatever sales you were making while building your catalog.

I am one lucky SOB, finding the right tool and the right manufacturer at the right time while being able to get enough help from all of you… Hard work is required but there is still luck involved.

Mark, given your expirence with KS so far, can you provide any insight into how it will shape your next one, or have things been sucessfull enough that you'll be able to launch your next range without KS?

 bbb wrote:
Mark, given your expirence with KS so far, can you provide any insight into how it will shape your next one, or have things been sucessfull enough that you'll be able to launch your next range without KS?

I am still kicking that can around.... I will not run another KS without having the Opforce completed, so I need to structure some intermittent releases to fill in the wait time between KS and Opforce completion if I go that rout. The molds are very expensive and the game art is not cheap... I will likely need to KS even if WGF is kind enough to extend credit on all the mold work. I want to get through the current KS before having a serious look at how to skin that beast.

It may not have been the highest absolute number, but considering what Mark has done with what he got from KS, I can't help but consider him the most successful to date.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
It may not have been the highest absolute number, but considering what Mark has done with what he got from KS, I can't help but consider him the most successful to date.

It is a toss up with DFG and Gangfight Games Blackwater Gulch.

Both basically started with nothing, and put out some great kits. Granted Mark got plastic, but they both are successful and haven't disappointed many of the backers (like SW's or mantics lackluster finished product)

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Is this all going to drop at once? For example are the 15 mm arms going to sit waiting on the other q2 items?

I think they are all going to hit at the same time. Which is a shame, but I can wait... as long as I get it this summer!

I ordered some eiesenkern stormtroopers after looking at some of the pics. They look like good sculpts, and hope they end up being such

Are the eisenkern (Ironcore) alpha rules/concepts available anywhere?

ncshooter426 wrote:
I ordered some eiesenkern stormtroopers after looking at some of the pics. They look like good sculpts, and hope they end up being such

Are the eisenkern (Ironcore) alpha rules/concepts available anywhere?

I don't think you will be disappointed

The game is pre alpha. You can see the game design banter here and I encourage your feedback... http://precinctomega.co.uk/wp/

ncshooter426 wrote:
I ordered some eiesenkern stormtroopers after looking at some of the pics. They look like good sculpts, and hope they end up being such

Are the eisenkern (Ironcore) alpha rules/concepts available anywhere?

The storm troopers were some of the best plastics I have had the actual joy of putting together. And the hard lines are great.

I don't think alpha rules or concepts are out, as they JUST started working on them in the last couple months.

ncshooter426 wrote:
I ordered some eiesenkern stormtroopers after looking at some of the pics. They look like good sculpts, and hope they end up being such

I loved these models, I assembled what were f the quality of model kit plastic troopers like you would get for making soldier and tank dioramas, that is how well made and detailed these trooper are! The Eisenkern did not disappoint, and I look forwards to other infantry Dreamforge makes.

As soon as the Leviathan is finished, I will have pics and all can see it then.

Here I added a touch, a flame thrower weapon,
[/img]

Very nice! I've dropped 150$ over the course of 24hrs for dreamforge stuff...it better be good The more I read the more I was impressed... really hope that shipment of leviathans manages to come in within the next 2-3 weeks





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NoseGoblin wrote:

ncshooter426 wrote:
I ordered some eiesenkern stormtroopers after looking at some of the pics. They look like good sculpts, and hope they end up being such

Are the eisenkern (Ironcore) alpha rules/concepts available anywhere?

I don't think you will be disappointed

The game is pre alpha. You can see the game design banter here and I encourage your feedback... http://precinctomega.co.uk/wp/

Danka! I will read and give feedback. Also, check your PM's for a special request

Cheers!

ncshooter426 wrote:
Very nice! I've dropped 150$ over the course of 24hrs for dreamforge stuff...it better be good The more I read the more I was impressed... really hope that shipment of leviathans manages to come in within the next 2-3 weeks

I bought the 20 man squad x 2 and then the command kit as well as 3 x heavy weapons. I am not unhappy at all with these beautifully crafted minis, I am looking forwards to the other weapon options for my big Leviathan, the heavy powered armor troopsm, and the Hanomags

ncshooter426 wrote:
Very nice! I've dropped 150$ over the course of 24hrs for dreamforge stuff...it better be good The more I read the more I was impressed... really hope that shipment of leviathans manages to come in within the next 2-3 weeks

 NoseGoblin wrote:
Yeah, KS is a mixed bag for everyone, the customer and the KS creator.

For the customer:
Long delays are common and the possibility of failure and the loss of funds is a possibility. Communication can be an issue and many times you are seeing renders, not the true end product, so it can be a gamble

For the KS creator:
Everything takes more time and costs more than you anticipate, shipping is a killer… no really… a killer to the bottom line. Balancing your needs and desires vs the customer’s desires can sometimes be challenging. Trying to keep your backers informed once you involve other parties can be a challenge. Not getting something right and the costs associated with correcting that are compounded by the number of backers.

KS as a tool:
Great advertising tool and great tool to get many kits in the hands of people in a short time but I often wonder if sales direct into distribution are not more advantageous to the creator than doing a KS; if they can afford to do it without a KS. It spreads the costs and work load more effectively across the distribution chain and honestly you make more $$ going that rout and you do not piss off the retailers and supply chain. The main benefit I see from a manufacturer’s point of view is IF your KS is successful you get a lot of hype, hype that is noticed by other customers and the supply chain managers.

KS used as intended works great! When you do not have the funds to even get your project off the ground, there is no better way than a KS (assuming you have done your homework and know your costs). Going the traditional bank rout is not an option for even some established companies as you may not have the history of large capital gains from whatever sales you were making while building your catalog.

I am one lucky SOB, finding the right tool and the right manufacturer at the right time while being able to get enough help from all of you… Hard work is required but there is still luck involved.

I think one of the main reasons you see a lot of people get upset about kickstarters is because they really don't understand what the point of one is, or have only bought in on "kickstarters" that were glorified preorders.

Honestly, any kickstarter you see, you can practically guarantee there will be delays. I factor this in when I decide to back one, and I've got no worries. The winter war one I backed a while ago is a good example. The guy was very well squared away and handled his much like Mark, but then his casting machine bit the dust a couple of weeks ago. Some people are upset, but I was already prepared to deal with that so it was no biggy. I'm getting the models roughly at cost from the sound of it (both Winter war and the Dreamforge ones from the looks of it) and so I accept that there will always be a consequence.

A common sign you see in small businesses in my area sums it up best.

You we offer 3 types of work here

*Quick

*Cheap

*High quality

You may pick any two. If you want cheap and quick, it will not be good. If you want quick and good, it will not be cheap. And if you want it cheap and good, it will not be quick.

So when I go into a kickstarter and see that I'm getting kickass minis for dirt cheap, I realize that it will not be quick. That's just life.

Granted the delays sometimes go on longer than even I was expecting, but hey, we were warned by Kickstarter and even Mark's statements that there's never a guarantee. There is always risk, and as "investors" we all weighed the risks and were prepared to take that chance. It sucks, but I'm happy that my investment is going towards good minis and what appears to be a guy committed to the long term. I wouldn't be nearly as happy if he had gotten sloppy trying to stay on the timeframe and released a sub par product. I've still got Black Widows on the way (really kicking myself that I didn't pledge for some valkir too) and while it sucks to see that he hasn't gotten quite as far on them yet, I'm glad that he's taking the time to do them right.

 Commander Cain wrote:
Nice to see that there is some progress on the wave 3 stuff. I am most looking forward to those Valkir guys, no idea how many I ordered so it will be a nice surprise when they show up.

And in the subject of delays, try the Trollforge ks. I don't know many dakkites other than RiTides and myself who backed but it has been a year since everything should have shipped and we haven't received anything yet! Honestly though I don't even want the models any more as the whole experience has become very stale...

I'm also in on that one.

To be quite honest, though - I'm in on this one for a lot more than that one, and frankly I care a hell of a lot more about the stuff in the DFG KS than the stuff in the AAH one. Looks like I'll be swapping out my AAH warriors for more worms and hosts, though.. since those sculpts continue to disappoint.

I've lucked out, and DFG has had the "worst" problems, ie. extreme delays. That said I think of it as the best KS since the product is just so awesome and the price so excellent. As Moustaffa mentioned re. quick, good, cheap. Give me good and cheap virtually any day. Next up might be WWX... I guess I just really love WGF plastic ; p

Speaking of which, have you seen the WWX plastic Mark? I have some (bad) pics in my Dakka gallery if you haven't. You really did luck out scoring them as your manufacturer I think. We don't know anything about what happened behind the scenes, but the quality... my god. Especially knowing a little about the turn around with the change of management, to come out of it as imo the highest quality producer of plastic in the industry (or at the very least equal to GW) is an impressive feat for the new CEO.