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Made in us
[DCM]
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

 cuda1179 wrote:
A quick thought on all this. People keep saying DF models should be able to be proxies in other games to help model sales. What if the opposite could be true as well?

If there was an official Iron Core game the rules for factions could be made in such a way that players could cannibalize generic model kits and models from existing tabletop games (40k, Dust, AT-43, Warmachine, etc.) to fulfil rolls that don't yet have models in the game.

People could then easily switch games (even if it's only to try it out) without too much investment. It's only a matter of time before they buy actual DF products.

Heck, that's kind of how Games Workshop started out. Back in the day there were a handful of Marine and Eldar troops and you had to make due with converting up a WWII tank or some Zoids.


The problem is that alternative games come and go, but good alternative models stick around.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in ca
Thermo-Optical Tuareg





California

I just want to see those promised Space Soviets show up someday.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






First, thank you all VERY MUCH for your help and participation! It really does help….

MY thoughts on Terrain:
When it comes to Terrain, it’s a hard nut to pin down. KS after KS has funded and funded very well, so I think there is a pent-up demand (If you hit the right style or fill a need). The post sales are likely poor, (at least in my experience watching others) its something that would need to be looked at from the standpoint of ‘make the profit in the KS’ to be a safer bet. The problem with plastic is that with the lower demand after the initial sale, you are defeating the reason to have plastic (a medium that can be easily reproduced in vast quantities) Where it works even then is if your initial sale is quite large… There is a tipping point in economy of scale where resin no longer makes sense.

I know large factories that do resin in China and they can provide that service at a reasonable cost but if you want modular walls that create a structure, it may be an issue due to variations in the cast, this is where plastic shines… the same every time. So, I think it comes down to your design and how loose you go with your part-part tolerance if you decide to go resin. Durability is also a concern but there are resins that mimic rubber like qualities, they will not be as rigid, but they can be very tough.

A Game:
Yeah, it would help a TON if there was a game, at least from a brand loyalty and a freedom to release non-proxy kits.
I have the bones of one created by Robey Jenkins, but there is a lot of meat that needs to be put on, its more of a flow concept and a framework that anything ready to go. Robey came at this from the standpoint of trying to solve an obvious issue… How can you have a unit the can rule the battlefield and make everything obsolete and still have a fair and challenging game for all. His idea was quite cleaver and indeed moved a long way to dealing with that problem. The primary issue I have with the core play aspect is that it created a ‘trackable’ an item that must be adjusted like a tick box up and down each turn. Not a fan of ‘trackables’. SO I started playing with that as a starting point and folded that trackable into the game more deeply as a resource… You would not just be tracking something but utilizing this resource each phase, making it a part of the game rather than an external measure of progress…. If that makes sense.

A simplistic game that only aims to resolve a round of combat is a fairly easy thing... A game that deals with the problems of walking battleships is more challenging, a game that makes you and your opponent agonize over every decision takes more thought, care and work. Getting a game from a word doc. to a published state with art is a HUGE undertaking.

Sooooo the bones are almost there but far from done and missing the meat and skin. Play testing for me is a HUGE issue, I do not have the time or the network to deal with that (I live in a gaming desert, barren and devoid of places and players) I am an atrocious proof reader, so not something that I can be relied upon to complete successfully.

What all that equates to is I need to partner up with a company that can fully deliver that aspect or pay a kings ransom to have a studio produce it for me…. Which is NOT cheap. About $15K (Just for a play tested system, no art, no layout…just the bone and muscle) soooooo it’s an issue and one not easily resolved.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Barzam wrote:
I just want to see those promised Space Soviets show up someday.


Yep, those are being dusted off and will be back in the design phase sooner rather than later.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/09/06 15:42:44


Any resemblance of this post to written English is purely coincidental.


 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Maybe license a system?

Maelstrom's Edge system, with some alternate plastics, for example?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

That sounds like quite a good idea. Warlord did the same with K47 - so they probably would not be interested - but it's certainly a precedent.

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






You can do a lot with the internet...I'd definitely poke around until you find some people who are confident in technical editing and playtesting (anyone with models and terrain could do it). But you have to trust them of course.

I've done some playtesting and editing for other small time game designers, but it's because we frequented the same forums and exchanged a lot of ideas before being trusted to peek behind the curtain and help produce something.

The big problem is you shouldn't ask for "random" feedback or playtesting. The overwhelming majority of people are going to give you bad feedback, having no experience in game design or balancing stuff, etc. You need some proper, qualified feedback by people who are long-term hobbyists or have experience producing/writing/playtesting rules.

 
   
Made in ca
Mighty Kroxigor Ancient





California the Southern

My first though is talk to Ganesha Games.

Andrea's published a lot of different rule types for a variety of sources- he's had stuff published by companies like Osprey, put out tons of his own content, and has some experience as well publishing others' works through his company.

He's also licensed his system out for games like Deep Wars and ShadowSea, both from Antimatter Games, and I think there was another that did this as well.

Plus he's a cool guy and may just have some good advice...

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



SoCal

 Mysterio wrote:
Maybe license a system?

Maelstrom's Edge system, with some alternate plastics, for example?


Yeah imagine the Shadokesh as either a subset of the Broken or as their own itinerant community.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

The main rules could be cannibalized, but just create your own "faction" rules.

That would be funny though, if the core rules were exactly the same. You could then theoretically have cross-over games of Iron Core vs. Maelstrom's Edge.

Reminds me of years ago when Mongoose Publishing shared core rules from their Starship Troopers game with a modern warfare game and a "knights of the round table" game. You could play Iraq Republican Guard vs Mobile infantry or Arachnids vs. King Arthur
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot








The game rules are easy. Getting people to play it is hard.

If I had the funds, my way to getting my game to be played would be to have a good tournament/competitive support system out there. Give stores an incentive to run events, and for tournament players to go to these events.

That can be expensive and a lot of work if your goal is to sell figures that aren't in scale with other games' figures.

I for one love your stuff for a space opera RPG game I am writing and hope to run in the next year. I'm actively searching for other figures in the scale yours are to match them.

.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I live in the middle of nowhere. Other than a couple of local 40k players the closest gaming stores are either 70 miles to my west, or 90 miles to my east.

It's kind of the reason I only play 40k, any other game is just too much of an investment in time and money when you can't find an opponent. I'd LOVE to try out other systems, if I could justify it. I have the rules for Mantic's Warpath, Firefight, or whatever they call it now. I just haven't found a friend willing to give it a go, even with proxy models.

That being said, if a game came out that was streamlined a little, and was easy enough to understand in 30 minutes of reading, I'd buy the rules and give the game a shot. Other than simple core rules, there needs to be WAY less "special rules" than what is currently in 40k. Unique stats and weapons, yes, that's easy enough to understand. Maybe like 8-10 universal special rules across the entire game.

I think I could sucker in my two local guys into playing something like that.
   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
A quick thought on all this. People keep saying DF models should be able to be proxies in other games to help model sales. What if the opposite could be true as well?
If there was an official Iron Core game the rules for factions could be made in such a way that players could cannibalize generic model kits and models from existing tabletop games (40k, Dust, AT-43, Warmachine, etc.) to fulfil rolls that don't yet have models in the game.
People could then easily switch games (even if it's only to try it out) without too much investment. It's only a matter of time before they buy actual DF products.
Heck, that's kind of how Games Workshop started out. Back in the day there were a handful of Marine and Eldar troops and you had to make due with converting up a WWII tank or some Zoids.

The problem is that alternative games come and go, but good alternative models stick around.


Almost makes me want to quote my suggestions again from more than two-odd years ago last time this came up. I suggested that some of these smaller manufacturers come together to create a ruleset together that was cross-brand-compatible. Nobody (except Vic) wanted to play, and so now it feels like that time of real opportunity, with a weak GW and popular sentiment very against them has largely passed.

   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

Maelstroms edge seems like it would be the easiest/best solution...
Later on down the line you can release your own special rules, but you need something people can play with immediately. Liscencing the Medge rules also would give you some ready made opposing forces in plastic. Eisenkern vs The Broken etc.
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block





I second Ganesha as an option though those games give a particular "cinematic" type of game based around heroes doing heroic thing and minions dying in droves. Another option for rules would be to look at the squad based sci-fi skirmish rules put out by "Nordic Weasel". Available as PDFs on wargames vault. He's an experienced rules writer. No experience of MEdge. Someone round here bought it but after reading it never wanted to play it. I took that as a negative review

All that said I'm not sure that rules is the answer. Writing rules is one thing but then you need to also flesh out the world so its enough to get people interested in it. That takes a lot - fluff, art etc. Some established settings have a huge headstart on you for that already. Without wanting to sound rude I don't really get a feel for what sort of universe your kits are meant to inhabit. I think they're great and I have bought some, but its space knights and space nazis in a sort of modern urban cityscape? So I think you'd have a lot of work to put out a game that I'd buy. Whereas I'd be more likely to buy kits to proxy as others have said.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut



Netherlands

First a question, that's a repeat of a fellow poster: What's up with the size difference between the Shadokesh beast handler and these Shadokesh troops? Do they come in different sizes and the beast handlers are the runts of the pack?

As stated previously, I love a LOT of the DFG designs and have been following the NoseGoblin since his first 3d titan designs. But... I strongly dislike resin products, I've been known to make exceptions to that, but that's under very specific circumstances. Single cast items, no assembly required (such as the old FW Eldar statue) OR something that I'm such a big fan of and I've exhausted every thing else on my wishlist (that hasn't happened in a LONG time). So when DFG announced that they would stop doing plastic an go resin instead I was very disappointed, I could understand it quite well from a business perspective, but it would mean that I wouldn't be a customer anymore. Now that this decision has been reversed I'm quite happy! But I am curious about the quality of the models from the new manufacturer.

As for your new KS set...

Terrain: There are currently no other companies making sci-fi terrain in hard model plastic that isn't skull encrusted dark ghothic (GW). That could be an interesting market niche to occupy. But there are many alternatives in resin, HDF and in 3D STL files (to print yourself or have others print for you). Making terrain in 28-32mm style is quite expensive do to the mold size, which imho makes it a risky proposition to say the least. Especially after a long hiatus and too many it seemed DFG went out of business. If you want to develop terrain for your Iron Core universe, why not do a 3D STL KS? Those can be quite successful, especially when your back doing plastic KS and waiting between KS on product being shipped, you could even license certain people to print those models for profit. See how printablescenery.com did their KS (and how successful they were), also they have licensees all across the globe that print their models for people that don't have or want a 3D printer. If you want to do plastic terrain eventually, you could even hold back those designs that benefit a lot from plastic molding.

Vehicles: DFG vehicles are awesome! But the Leviathans filled a huge hole that was later filled by GW itself. The APC is absolutely beautiful, but imho far more daunting to build then the Leviathans, the Stug seems a lot more reasonable in that regard. I see a couple of pro's and con's for the STug being your first plastic KS. I suspect that the Stug will be more expensive to produce then a squad of Shadokesh, I could be wrong here. In a standard situation there would be far more infantry then vehicles in most game armies. The challenge here is that your not selling an army, but a single model kit that will either be sold as a proxy in another game or as a fun model project. From the top of my head I can see the Stug be used as a Vindicator in a Primaris army or as a Leman Russ (variant) in an Imperial Guard army that is highly advanced (I was recently thinking of the DFG stormtroopers as a basis for a Horus Heresy Imperialis Militia). Due to it's looks it might also appeal to some historical kit modelers that want something a little different to build, that's a pretty big market, the problem would be reaching them and convincing them to use KS.

Infantry: The Eisenkern Stormtrooper sets are great, they look great, they build great, they paint great! The Valkir were a great Space Marine alternative and I've seen quite a few conversions that made them into Sisters of Battle, but due to GW releasing Sisters next year in plastic I think this is a shrinking market. Although still interesting for those who want something a little different from the standard GW ascetic. On the other hand, there is a small window of opportunity to re-release the Valkir with female head plastic sprues when GW releases the beta rules for the Sisters at the end of the year...

As mentioned with the Stug, infantry should sell traditionally better then (big) vehicles, but here I do not think that is the hard rule here. If the infantry models are too niche and don't have an appropriator proxy place, they will sell a whole lot less then a tank that does. Based on the Shadokesh beast handler, I always thought that they would be great alternatives to Dark Eldar, but with their large size this could be an issue with 40k (a lot harder to hide such a model behind terrain). As I'm typing this, I suddenly realize they might make good proxies for Infinity (alien race), maybe even as creepier Skorne in Hordes or as a new alien race in Starfinder (you could actually make an official supplement for that). But after having seen the models for the Feral Shadokesh (although I don't know how big they are) I think those might be good for Dark Eldar Ur-Ghul or even as Khymerae. For Age of Sigmar (Warhammer Fantasy for those not keeping up) they might very well function as Ghouls. I could see them used as Daemons for both games. In many other scifi/fantasy games (including RPGs) they would make excellent monsters. Depening on size, they look like a whole lot less complex then the troopers, so should be cheaper to mold/produce. Which should lower the initial buy in for KS, which is a good thing after such a long hiatus. Might also mean faster turn around and faster KS fulfillment.

Rules: No, just no! They cost a ton of money, with very little certainty that they would ever give a return on investment. It also creates an invisible wall around your minis, making them for your game 'only'. While on one hand attracting more customers, that would also scare away a lot of people. Especially when they don't like your rules set. I've seen quite intelligent people react to a cool model "It's a shame that I can't use model X for Y, it looks so cool!" After which I ask, why? "Because it's for game Z." After I point out that they could easily use it for A, B, C, D, etc. You see them pause, you can hear the gears turn, the light bulb going on and "Hmm... That's interesting!". The problem is that you have to point it out.

Another issue with rules is that they need to constantly evolve. Osprey has a good model with releasing a game in a book (I think Frostgrave is the exception here), pumping and dumping that, but they don't need to support a miniatures line. The amount of whining with things like 40k, WarmaHordes and even X-wing indicates that it's a constant fight for re-balancing and those are large companies, especially Privateer Press was slow on the solutions and that cost them a lot of customers. I don't think that you want that as a small company. Partnering with someone else makes you wholly dependent on them, I don't know DFG's position on that, but I expect they aren't comfortable with that either. If on the other hand those rules that were in development a couple of years ago got released commercially at the time, after the last two years that rules set would be very, very dead. There are so many dead rules sets out there it's depressing!

You might want to consider making the rules Open Gaming Content (OGL), this is what Wizards of the Coast (WotC) did with their D&D 3rd edition, it allowed many others to create gaming content with a common rules set. WotC had determined that developing adventures would be unprofitable to them, so they let others make them for their customers. So those rules were open source, but all the IP (names, art, setting, etc.) wasn't, this allowed WotC to keep control of their D&D brand. You could do something similar with your Iron Core setting/rules, make the rules open source (OGL for example) and let the community develop and 'patch' those rules and stats. It would allow you to initially focus on miniatures and background, but you could always publish a rule book with your IP and rules after a few years of free development time. Folks could easily make an powered armor list (Space Marines) without using any GW IP, publish it to make it compatible with your rules and lists and folks could play with SM against the Eisenkern or Shadokesh. Game rules are already quite difficult to copyright or patent, just look at what the folks who made 9th Age do (rewritten 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy Battle rules). The problem with how 9th Age did it is that they made another closed rules set, one of very many, if folks want to do fan rules they are stuck with asking for permission to publish, that is until the non-profit goes under. Iterations of those OGL rules from 2000 are still being used today, even after WotC abandoned the OGL license in 2007 and went back to it in 2016. More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License Making the game itself opensource would not only do a way with a lot of development costs, it would also create a lot of goodwill, free advertisement and removes that invisible wall from your minis.

Maybe make a 'uses' section on the DFG website, where people post their usage of your minis in other games (besides the obvious 40k usages).
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard




Lake County, Illinois

Yeah, maybe for the time being, having rules probably aren't worth the investment. Maybe it would be better to have like army lists or stats for your models in already existing games systems. Like Tomorrow's War or Konflict '47. Are there other "generic" sci fi games out there that work for squads of 28mm guys? Just having some suggested stats for other games would at least give some people an excuse to use them in a game. Not sure how legal that is, though...
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





i absolutely love the leviathan kits. they're some of the best plastic models i have ever put together.

i would really love to see that game hit the market though.
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block





Cergorach wrote:

Terrain: There are currently no other companies making sci-fi terrain in hard model plastic that isn't skull encrusted dark ghothic (GW).


That's not really correct. Mantic make a lot. It's modular, not gothic, and I'd describe it as "cheap and cheerful". Quality is ok for a reasonable price. They have a fairly generic set of pieces and a more industrial set.

Originally sold under the "Battlezones" name now re-badged under their "Terraincrate" name. http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/terrain-crate/sci-fi-terrain.html

   
Made in de
Cataphract





Rhein Main Gebiet

Are the Eisenkern still fluffwise the goodies, because it is something that bothers me about them. They borrow heavily from the imagry of facism, but (fluffwise) they are not space facists.

I think if there was a rule book, the Eisenkern would need some more irony (like Starship Troopers).

"What do you want?"
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Morden and Vir, In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




From what I recall of the lore, the setting diverged during WW1 so the Eisenkern are descended from Imperial Germany and Austria-Hungary with no specific connection to the Nazis. Of course most of their current equipment has more of a WW2 vibe with the MG42s, Stugs and whatnot. It would be great to see some elements that reflect the earlier divergent point though - I always kinda imagined that Leviathan pilots had a dress uniform like a 19th century Hussar
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Azazelx wrote:
Almost makes me want to quote my suggestions again from more than two-odd years ago last time this came up. I suggested that some of these smaller manufacturers come together to create a ruleset together that was cross-brand-compatible. Nobody (except Vic) wanted to play, and so now it feels like that time of real opportunity, with a weak GW and popular sentiment very against them has largely passed.


It was a good idea then and it still is, I did not get much traction when I asked around a few years back, admittedly I did not hit up Victoria when I saw her a couple years back, I should drop her an email.

Cergorach wrote:First a question, that's a repeat of a fellow poster: What's up with the size difference between the Shadokesh beast handler and these Shadokesh troops? Do they come in different sizes and the beast handlers are the runts of the pack?

Depending on size, they look like a whole lot less complex then the troopers, so should be cheaper to mold/produce. Which should lower the initial buy in for KS, which is a good thing after such a long hiatus. Might also mean faster turn around and faster KS fulfillment.

Rules: No, just no! They cost a ton of money, with very little certainty that they would ever give a return on investment. It also creates an invisible wall around your minis, making them for your game 'only'. While on one hand attracting more customers, that would also scare away a lot of people. Especially when they don't like your rules set. I've seen quite intelligent people react to a cool model "It's a shame that I can't use model X for Y, it looks so cool!" After which I ask, why? "Because it's for game Z." After I point out that they could easily use it for A, B, C, D, etc. You see them pause, you can hear the gears turn, the light bulb going on and "Hmm... That's interesting!". The problem is that you have to point it out.

You might want to consider making the rules Open Gaming Content (OGL),
Maybe make a 'uses' section on the DFG website, where people post their usage of your minis in other games (besides the obvious 40k usages).


All great points in that post, just addressing a couple with this response. The Shadokesh Feral's and Warriors are the same race, so roughly the same size... I am looking hard at a re-scale from their original 9ft height to a 7ft. The reason would to make them more usable for the vast majority of customers and equally as important to decrease their mold space requirements. If I can get that to work out, it might be possible to fit both the Feral's and the Warriors onto a very large mold, reducing the mold costs overall and the shot price, making both far more cost friendly for myself and my customers.

Yeah, rules can and do cut both ways. There is a strong advantage in doing an OGL style with other manufacturers when it comes to the pigeon hole issue... I honestly ask myself if the world needs another set of rules when there are so many not utilized already? Gamers want a framework and stats they are not pulling out of thin air, I doubt gamers want to learn new rules at every turn unless they are amazing. Then we come back to game style, competitive vs beer and pretzel vs button counting detail... Not everyone enjoys the same thing. It seems to me the market has been pushing towards fast set up and fast play games with only a minority in the other camps. Hard to say for sure as I am soooooo out of the loop on current game trends.

Albino Squirrel wrote:Yeah, maybe for the time being, having rules probably aren't worth the investment. Maybe it would be better to have like army lists or stats for your models in already existing games systems. Like Tomorrow's War or Konflict '47. Are there other "generic" sci fi games out there that work for squads of 28mm guys? Just having some suggested stats for other games would at least give some people an excuse to use them in a game. Not sure how legal that is, though...


Not sure if that will get me in hot water and I doubt they would allow me to create competing miniature lines that directly work with their games.

StygianBeach wrote:Are the Eisenkern still fluffwise the goodies, because it is something that bothers me about them. They borrow heavily from the imagry of facism, but (fluffwise) they are not space facists.

I think if there was a rule book, the Eisenkern would need some more irony (like Starship Troopers).


That is correct, Weird War WWI that had a lot of years between the WWI separation and the current game date. Its true that the weapons and such use WWII visual cues but its more to have a recognizable visual cue than any form of political association. I view it as an advancement in style and types of equipment with a future war esthetic mixed with historical inspiration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/10 21:52:00


Any resemblance of this post to written English is purely coincidental.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Mechanics (e.g. move 6") and stats (i.e. numbers) are not copyrightable, and neither is purely technical writing. You can make a game that plays identically to another game (though I can't imagine why), and it would be OK.

As a competitor releasing an unofficial expansion, that can be a challenge; however, that too is generally legal if you can keep the wording as "unofficial whatnot compatible with XYZ rules" so there's no confusion.

Thing is, even if legal precedent is clear, you can still be sued over nonsense. Now, if you have deep pockets and intend to countersue to recover ALL legal fees for baseless lawsuit, go for it.

Otherwise, either:
a) get a license or
b) make something "better".

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
-- $k Kingdom Death : Monster P&M blog
-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 4k Solland's Ghosts WFB Dogs of War 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, maybe for the time being, having rules probably aren't worth the investment. Maybe it would be better to have like army lists or stats for your models in already existing games systems. Like Tomorrow's War or Konflict '47. Are there other "generic" sci fi games out there that work for squads of 28mm guys? Just having some suggested stats for other games would at least give some people an excuse to use them in a game. Not sure how legal that is, though...


Imagine if Eisenkern basic troopers had stats such as:
Bravery: 8
Hand-to-Hand Skill: 4
Hand-to-Hand Attacks: 1
Armor Protection: 3
Ranged Fighting: 3
Initiative: 3
Durability: 4
Move Rating: 6
ECM: 4

An Eisenkern basic trooper squad will have 5-10 soldiers, each costing 15 tactical value points.
Each is armed with the such and such assault rifle, anti-personnel grenades and anti-tank grenades.
One trooper must be an NCO. The NCO's Bravery and Hand-to-Hand Attacks are 1 higher than a basic trooper for no additional TVPs.
One trooper may, for 10 TVPs, exchange his assault rifle for a light machine gun.

Such and such assault rifle
Lethality 1/ Range 24/ Power 4

Unending Loyalty: Eisenkern soldiers are exceptionally brave. If they fail a bravery test, they may immediately reroll the die(dice); the rerolled result takes effect.

Now you have stats (players can ignore initiative and ECM----added just to have some obviously not 40k stats) that 40k gamers can use to play their current game.




   
Made in nl
Zealous Knight






the Netherlands

 NoseGoblin wrote:
If I can get that to work out, it might be possible to fit both the Feral's and the Worriers onto a very large mold, reducing the mold costs overall and the shot price, making both far more cost friendly for myself and my customers.

Is that a third unit type or are the warriors getting a bit of a new non-combat role?
Because if it's just the two of those I'd suggest the Eisenkern might solve both parts of their Shadokesh problem with a few hearty helpings of anxiolytics and maybe, like, some good herb to go around? (yes yes, getting my coat)

Also good to hear about the scale, had me worried there for a bit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/10 15:21:47


 
   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran





Mississippi

 privateer4hire wrote:
 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, maybe for the time being, having rules probably aren't worth the investment. Maybe it would be better to have like army lists or stats for your models in already existing games systems. Like Tomorrow's War or Konflict '47. Are there other "generic" sci fi games out there that work for squads of 28mm guys? Just having some suggested stats for other games would at least give some people an excuse to use them in a game. Not sure how legal that is, though...


Imagine if Eisenkern basic troopers had stats such as:
Bravery: 8
Hand-to-Hand Skill: 4
Hand-to-Hand Attacks: 1
Armor Protection: 3
Ranged Fighting: 3
Initiative: 3
Durability: 4
Move Rating: 6
ECM: 4

An Eisenkern basic trooper squad will have 5-10 soldiers, each costing 15 tactical value points.
Each is armed with the such and such assault rifle, anti-personnel grenades and anti-tank grenades.
One trooper must be an NCO. The NCO's Bravery and Hand-to-Hand Attacks are 1 higher than a basic trooper for no additional TVPs.
One trooper may, for 10 TVPs, exchange his assault rifle for a light machine gun.

Such and such assault rifle
Lethality 1/ Range 24/ Power 4

Unending Loyalty: Eisenkern soldiers are exceptionally brave. If they fail a bravery test, they may immediately reroll the die(dice); the rerolled result takes effect.

Now you have stats (players can ignore initiative and ECM----added just to have some obviously not 40k stats) that 40k gamers can use to play their current game.






Yeah, having a 1-10 point ranking like the old Transformer file cards wouldn't be a bad idea, and then players could do a simple conversion from there to the system they want.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Bolognesus wrote:
 NoseGoblin wrote:
If I can get that to work out, it might be possible to fit both the Feral's and the Worriers onto a very large mold, reducing the mold costs overall and the shot price, making both far more cost friendly for myself and my customers.

Is that a third unit type or are the warriors getting a bit of a new non-combat role?
Because if it's just the two of those I'd suggest the Eisenkern might solve both parts of their Shadokesh problem with a few hearty helpings of anxiolytics and maybe, like, some good herb to go around? (yes yes, getting my coat)

Also good to hear about the scale, had me worried there for a bit.


Heh, yeah its a rough universe and everyone is on anti anxiety meds

Any resemblance of this post to written English is purely coincidental.


 
   
 
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