Ways to kill Kroak... Initiative based tests

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**Waaagh_Gonads**

I am playing in a tournament that allows special characters in August and want to take Kroak.

He is Initiative 1, which is about the only weakness I can find for him.

So what are all the initiative based spells/attacks that can kill/really hurt him?

1: Pit of shades (Lore Shadow)- Available to Beasts great shaman, VC lords, Empire mages, HE mages, Other slaan
The one saving grace here is that it is LOS so I could run a steggie next to the unit as a blocker from enemy wizards.

2: Mork Wants Ya! (Little Waaagh) - Goblin shamans (all levels). d6 St 10 hits if initiative test failed.

Anyone have any others?

**Ecurb The Mighty**

Ummm...flame attacks? Having a dragon roll up on you and breath fire could be problematic. Then again, I'd be inclined to think most opponents won't do that, as there's probably a heavy dose of hard hitting TG right there. The initiative test seems like the only real way to consistently get at him.

**Red_Zeke**

Why flame attacks? I think the slann ought to be able to survive many turns of breath weapon attacks.

You shouldn't have to worry about cloying quagmire, as I don't think you have an armor save, so that initiative based effect is safe.

The skaven brass orb could ruin your day, but I don't know how often you'll actually see that. There's also crack's call from the Skaven ruin spells.

Only other thing is the giant "smash with club" attack for 2D6 wounds, but as a lizzie player, large targets with no armor shouldn't be too much of a worry.

That's all I can think of off the top o' my head.

RZ

**Waaagh_Gonads**

He'll be buried in a Temple Guard unit so the giant won't be able to hit him (for awhile).

**RanTheCid**

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:He'll be buried in a Temple Guard unit so the giant won't be able to hit him (for awhile).

How would the Temple Guard protect him - is Kroak not in the front rank? I would think the giant would be able to allocate attacks to any model it can get in base to base with.

**Zad Fnark**

Nope, he starts at the 2nd rank, in the middle of the formation.

ZF-

**plusARGON**

Red_Zeke wrote:Why flame attacks? I think the slann ought to be able to survive many turns of breath weapon attacks.

Kroak is flammable. Which may or may not be a problem. He has a decent ward save and only really has to worry about things that can hit him in the second rank. Also, with W6 he can take a bit of a beating, even if his wounds are essentially halved when facing fire. idon't see this being a huge problem though, unless there is a dragon or some Sallies.

Pit of Shades is not fun to face with any Lizardmen army. I1 for Saurus and I2 for the TG makes it a horrible spell to face. Kroak has the same problem. The best you can do is to stop it whenever you can. Since it's casting value is high, that means there is more commitment behind it. A Diadem Priest would want to convert every turn in this case. Another option would be to take a scroll caddy and just scroll the hell out of it.
Cloying Quagmire presents a different issue. Kroak doesn't care as he lacks armour but the TG sure do. I2 and that 3+ armour means that the spell can eat up the unit, exposing the toad, which is very very bad. I have had this problem before. I managed to shut it down three of the four times it was cast but it ate five TG late game when it went off (I got pretty luck). You just have to hope that you can dispel it or have a scroll.

Both spells really suck to face... You are just going to have to rely on dispelling pretty hard. Kroak and a Diadem Priest will give seven DD. That's not bad but if you think it is coming you are going to take hits elsewhere letting other spells through.

**Red_Zeke**

Hm, didn't realize he was flammable. Still, I believe he gets a look out sir *and* a ward vs. breath templates, which are also unlikely to cover him completely.

Didn't realize he was in TG. That pretty much guarantees that you're safe for a long, long time, with the exception of the spells you mentioned.

RZ

**Eyclonus**

I suppose the only real defence is to present other threats, like a wall of stegadon or something. If you can give an opponent a reason to cast an I-based attack on Saurus warriors... well thats Kroak alive for another turn at the cost of an entire regiment.. I suppose if your lucky you'd only draw opponent's with the token scroll caddy... but luck isn't something to consider, it is something to oppose in this hobby and attack at every turn!

**SlaveToDorkness**

1: Pit of shades (Lore Shadow)- Available to Beasts great shaman, VC lords, Empire mages, HE mages, Other slaan
The one saving grace here is that it is LOS so I could run a steggie next to the unit as a blocker from enemy wizards.

He gets his 2+ Look Out Sir save for this though.

**Bran Dawri**

Breaking the unit in combat and overrunning them is also a good way to kill Kroak (I assume they're stubborn with him in it though, so it'll have to be something fearcausing).

As for other flaming weapons, the Dwarf flame cannon (also forces a panic test if it kills a TG) causes d3 wounds (x2 since you're flammable), and any special warmachine with a rune of burning does the same, excepting the stone thrower, which does d6 (x2).

**Red_Zeke**

Pretty sure they're unbreakable. Temple Guard with a normal slann are Immune to Psychology, Stubborn, frequently in range of the BSB (often the slann with this build) and cold blooded.

This means you usually gotta kill a whole lot of T 4, 2 or 3+ save dudes to get to the Slann, because they aren't going anywhere.

RZ

**SlaveToDorkness**

Bran Dawri wrote:
As for other flaming weapons, the Dwarf flame cannon (also forces a panic test if it kills a TG) causes d3 wounds (x2 since you're flammable), and any special warmachine with a rune of burning does the same, excepting the stone thrower, which does d6 (x2).

Yeah, 2+ Look Out Sir! then a 2+ ward save I think he's pretty safe from these.

**Waaagh_Gonads**

Kroak makes his temple guard unit unbreakable.

**SlaveToDorkness**

I totally missed that when I looked it up, care to post a page #?

**Krellnus**

Look out for Skaven with the Skitterleap behind a unit and then use Crack's Call, draw a straight line through the unit, any model touched must take an initiative test, pass or be immediately removed, (both are easy to dispel and are the 1 and 2 spells for the Skaven spells of ruin).

**SlaveToDorkness**

And again, Kroak will get a 2+ "Look Out, Sir" against it...

**Krellnus**

I'm just politely pointing out that in the heat of the game, you forget, hate it when that happens...

**SagesStone**

Also DE can get Lore of Shadow as well, you seemed to miss them in the list. I don't see magic being that big of a weakness to him though. If anything trying to beat him with magic would be stupid, right?

**Krellnus**

Lol, true.

**DarthSpader**

"actually slaan and kroak have Unit Str 5 so neither can use "lookout sir!". see page 75 of the brb, and pages 24 and 67 of the lizzie army book. "

.I was reading the old lizard rules, not the new ones. aparently the lizards slaans and char got downgraded from unit str 5 to unit str 3 in the new book...making them able to look out sir!. that must have been changed to prevent people from doing such horrible tatics as bolt throwing or such the slanns out of the game. for those of you who read previous post of mine before edit, ill admit i was wrong, and shutup for the time being