Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Could a redeemer croos the flame template over a bit of its own hull to get at an enemy or is it not allowed to touch itself at all ?

That really depends on A: the shot and B: how big a rule lawyer your playing.

| |
{}
| |

If the center is the hull, and the nipples are the guns, the lines would be 90deg off the front hull. Anything between them id say would be out of reach.

So you can have 1 flamer hit at a time, but couldnt cross and both hit.

There are plenty of situations where flamer templates cross over the firing model. With that considered and without knowledge of any rule prohibiting such a tactic I can't see why not.

Although, I think as an opponent I feel a little cheated and would want some roll off to see if you get the shot or something. Maybe on a roll of a one you take a glance? This would be up to and between you and your opponent. Remember the number one rule of 40K!

so ur saying the template is not allowed to touch the hall at all even though if you shot it as a stright wepon the template nicks the front o the hull but allows me to target people right infront of me>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deuce11 wrote:There are plenty of situations where flamer templates cross over the firing model. With that considered and without knowledge of any rule prohibiting such a tactic I can't see why not.

Although, I think as an opponent I feel a little cheated and would want some roll off to see if you get the shot or something. Maybe on a roll of a one you take a glance? This would be up to and between you and your opponent. Remember the number one rule of 40K!

but see this is the kicker a flamestorm is strength 7 a Land raider is Armour value 14 so their is no way in the eye of terror that it is gonna glance it.

No, you cannot.

It's that simple.

RAW, flamers can't fire out of the top hatch of any vehicle either.

Or out of open-topped vehicles either, because technically you place the template so it's touching the model's base, and anything the template touches is hit. Hell by that token, RAW, flamers can never be fired.

As for the redeemer question, I don't mind if the template slightly grazes the hull to get at the enemy. But criss-crossing them over the hull is a bit....off.

Were does it say templates cannot touch the vehicles hall ? i cannot find them ? please quote can you at least identify the page?

Let me state what I tried to say earlier abit more clear for you good sir...

Pg: 59 BRB shows the firing arcs that you can shoot with side sponsons. These pictures will clearly solve any questions you may have. As I stated, there will be a deadzone infront of the vehicle that you wont be able to reach with the flame templates, so like I said, depending on the shot you wont be able to hit them.

Remember, if you cant draw clear LOS from the gun then you cant shoot the target. As the dotted line shows on PG 59.

and for example then how in Russes name would a hall mounted flamer work seeing at it would allways come into contact with the hall.

Grey elder wrote:Were does it say templates cannot touch the vehicles hall ? i cannot find them ? please quote can you at least identify the page?

Page 29:

Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.

or are you going to argue that a model is not friendly to itself?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey elder wrote:and for example then how in Russes name would a hall mounted flamer work seeing at it would allways come into contact with the hall.

Most Don't. That's GW Writing for you.

jp400 wrote:Let me state what I tried to say earlier abit more clear for you good sir...

Pg: 59 BRB shows the firing arcs that you can shoot with side sponsons. These pictures will clearly solve any questions you may have. As I stated, there will be a deadzone infront of the vehicle that you wont be able to reach with the flame templates, so like I said, depending on the shot you wont be able to hit them.

Remember, if you cant draw clear LOS from the gun then you cant shoot the target. As the dotted line shows on PG 59.

no what iam getting at is if you take the centre of the flame template and use it as ur lets say lascannon line of sight when you put the template over that line you can nick the hull of the landraider while still getting the guys at the front which would be normally impossible if it werent for the expanding flame template?

Spellbound wrote:RAW, flamers can't fire out of the top hatch of any vehicle either.

Or out of open-topped vehicles either, because technically you place the template so it's touching the model's base, and anything the template touches is hit. Hell by that token, RAW, flamers can never be fired.

As for the redeemer question, I don't mind if the template slightly grazes the hull to get at the enemy. But criss-crossing them over the hull is a bit....off.

Because it would touch a friendly model? . . . True. BUT! You would only ever mention this in a game if you were being TFG. I would play the rule that you can hit your own models with the flamer, but it actually hurts them if you do it. But using the RAW sensibly. You can fire out of open-topped vehicles, and when on foot (as long as it doesn't touch a model that isn't the firing one). This makes sense, and fits in with the rules.

Oshova

No, you cannot let the template touch the redeemer. The restriction is in the rules for Template weapons on p29. "place the template [...] without touching any friendly models." This is the same rule that makes it important to have your flamers at the front of your tactical squads.

How the sponsons are mounted on a vehicle is important of course, but a template will probably be even more restricted by the vehicle hull than a traditional shot.

Edit: I'm too slow today, ninjaed by a handful of people.

Mellon wrote:No, you cannot let the template touch the redeemer. The restriction is in the rules for Template weapons on p29. "place the template [...] without touching any friendly models." This is the same rule that makes it important to have your flamers at the front of your tactical squads.

How the sponsons are mounted on a vehicle is important of course, but a template will probably be even more restricted by the vehicle hull than a traditional shot.

Edit: I'm too slow today, ninjaed by a handful of people.

U fail to see my point look and the fire radius for the predator it can fire more then 180 and with a flame template it allowes for even greater range seeing as it increase AND by friendly models i belive it means any other model then it self other wise do tell me how will a BAAl predator work if the flamer has to go of the turret witch is located in the centre of that so called tank?

Its ok Mellon.

The way we play it around these parts:

You align the edge of the flame temp along the hull when you use it.

But does the flamestorm cannons not have the same firing field as the lascannons on the predator in da book of rulez?

Crude, yet effective.

Get it yet?

And not every vehicle/gun has the same arc.. says so on the page listed earlier.

In the end does this not just come down to the defintion of friendly models being freindly 1. any model on the same side as yours. or 2. any other model in the same army as the shooter but not including the shooter itself as freindly?

Not really no.

jp400 wrote:

Crude, yet effective.

Get it yet?

And not every vehicle/gun has the same arc.. says so on the page listed earlier.

this is what i meen


Automatically Appended Next Post:
well when i hear freindly model i think any other model then the shooting one

And like everyone keep telling you

NO

@ OP: You've got your answer. NO. According to the rules you are not supposed to hit your own units. It is of course troubling that many hull mounted template weapons exist and as such break that rule. So, it really comes down to talking it out expeditiously with your opponent before the game begins.

Here is

thank you Deuce11 ill stop arguing now

Grey elder. All shooting is from the working end of the weapon, not the mounting point.

And once again, this is YMDC. In all honesty I would let people flame me with all sorts of hullmounted weapons and I would let the flames wrap around the firing tanks hull a bit if it made more of my unfantry BURN!!! Because that's just waht those little xenophiliacs deserve ;-) What I mean is: 40k is not a watertight rules system. If you want that, play some Reiner Knizia games or advanced civilisation. 40k is about fun violence, and the more people can be hit by the big flamers, the more fun violence we can get.

Gray elder , just one question from me , if you dont mind answering.

You are playing it on Vassal arnt you.

What room luna? Do you know? Would be fun to pop in and say hello.

jp400 wrote:What room luna? Do you know? Would be fun to pop in and say hello.

Room? o_o

You mean something like Vassal has a lobby / room system? Because i never tried vassal before.
But , i imagine an issue like this could only ever pop up in a 2D environment hence Vassal popped up in my head.

But semi off topic , i wouldnt mind if you can guide me through getting it with all the proper links xD

LunaHound wrote:Gray elder , just one question from me , if you dont mind answering.

You are playing it on Vassal arnt you.

HELL NO lol what is vassal any ways i just play with me friends who get crushed by my furry little canine freinds every time

You... play Space Wolves?