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what is AT-43? how are the mechanics? I take it that it is more balanced than 40k? I am also assuming it is much cheaper than 40k. I'm feeding a WHFB addiction right now and I want to go for a sci fi game in addition to battletech. thanks for the replies guys.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:what is AT-43? how are the mechanics? I take it that it is more balanced than 40k? I am also assuming it is much cheaper than 40k. I'm feeding a WHFB addiction right now and I want to go for a sci fi game in addition to battletech. thanks for the replies guys.

*Dislcaimer* since you will hear a lot of different opinions I prefer to clarify that I am not any sort of Rackham Sentinel or any other internal supporter *

Mechanics… well for starters, AT-43 is Fast and Furious (cliché I know) but seriously, the weapons are deadly and usually battles are finished within 3-4 rounds, what I mean to say is that soldiers die, and they die fast, unlike some units in 40 where they can save and save and save damage, usually infantry (including heroes… yes HEROES!) die very –very- fast if you are careless and do not position them properly or leave them in the open. In other words, heroes do not have more wounds or extremely different wargear, heroes (with a few exceptions) have regular stats as per the infantry with a few things better and a few special rules which is what makes them special.

Second important point, turns: the main difference here is that 40 k a player “acts” (moves, shoots charges, cc) with all the army and then the other player do the same; At-43 has an alternate activation system. One unit for player A acts, One unite for player B acts, this makes the game look less like a patience contests and keep you IN the game, you react to your enemy or the enemy reacts at your movements. There is more in activation, as you know Rackham has cards per each unit, so at the beginning of the Rounds you order your cards (as in one card per unit) in a sequence you want to activate during the game, can be changed willingly by the own player or by certain abilities of the enemy, so there is a tactical idea behind it which makes the game more interesting.

Another nice feature of the system is the Leadership points (LP), these points represent the tactical acumen of your force commander/officer and increases the more when you have a better commander (obvious). There are 5 ranges or commander and each has an increasing LP. The LP pool of the round is the sum of the LP value of the commander + 1LP for each unit you have in your activation sequence. The LP can be used for many things, they the AT-43 currency during the game somehow, some examples are:

1) LP can be used to bet for the first activation in that round
2) All armies can give “special” orders, like the imperial guard drills, take cover, overwatch, split fire, etc.
3) Armies like therians have “routines” special orders exclusively theirs that enhance their performance for certain activities like shooting or damaging, or even creating a “tank”
4) The Cogs need LP to get any type of cover otherwise they are too big so they don’t get the “normal” cover other armies had.

Now directly into the rules, IMHO one of the nicest features in AT-43 is that the weapons LACK a maximum range but have a value called accuracy, this represents not only the “technical” good things about a weapon but also the ability of a certain unit to use it (as in expertise); for example, Red Blok Rocket Launchers are extremely inaccurate in general, but when used by the lowest of grunts are slightly more than used by Red Blok Elite – assuming the elite have more experience in using such a weapon. So all weapons have “accuracy” value so in “theory” they can potentially hit anything on the board, however, the farther the distance to the target there will be an increase in the difficulty of the die roll.

To clarify the last point I need to explain what is the “mechanic” that is used in ALL rolls (except to start the round). Each roll has an “action value”, usually from 0 to 12, this value is compared to a “difficulty value” (could be anything from 0 to N), the “formula used is: (action value)-(Difficulty value)= X number. This X number is compared to the Universal table of resolution that gives you the roll you need to make on a D6. The universal table of resolution is very easy:
-6 – Automatic Failure
-4/-5 – 6+ on a D6
-2/-3 – 5+ on a D6
-1/0/1 – 4+ on a D6
2/3 – 3+ on a D6
4/5 – 2+ on a D6
6 – Automatic Success
The most common roll you will make is the “shooting roll” the shooting roll uses exactly the same mechanics as described before using the accuracy of that weapon used by that infantry (a nubmer in the card) as the “action value” and the distance to the enemy as the “difficulty value”. The distance in general is measured form the base of the leader of shooting unit, against the leader of target unit, this is range (a value pre-defined by Rackham):
0-10cm = Range 0
11-20cm = Range 2
21-30cm = Range 3
31-40 cm = Range 4
So for Example: Krasny Soldaty with assault rifle profile with Accuracy 2 shooting to a unit at 30cm (range 3) would be : Action Value (2) – Difficulty value -Range – (3)= -1. In the universal Table of REsulution -1= 4+ on a D6, so you would actually hit on a roll of 4+ on a D6, the next step would be the damage which is the action value (strength of the weapon) – Difficulty (Armor). In the same example, assuming the Krasny Soldat are shooting to Thierans Strom Golems is: Action Value (strength of Assault rifle) (4) – Difficulty Value (Armor Storm Golems) (6) = -2. So to damage the storm Golems the Krasny need a roll of 5+ on a D6.
There are other weapons that use slight different rules, for example:
Locked Shot weapons: Range is irrelevant, always hit on a fixed roll of 3+ or 4+ for example
Jammers: Armor is irrelevant, always damage on a fixed roll of 3+ or 4+
Flamers (projection): the maximum range is always pre-defined, usually 25 cm maximum
Indirect fire: Doesn’t need Line of Sight from the shooting weapon but almost always need an spotter. They also ignore cover and ground the infantry that is hit but not killed.
Normally people play at 2000 or 3000 points, for the most part they are about 4-8 units depending on the Army you choose and the type of formation within each army, there are obviously cheaper armies which can have more infantry or vice versa.
While the system has issues concerning some rules, many of them have been clarified and modified, as well as in some cases corrected, overall -and this is my personal opinion- most armies are fairly balanced but a there are obviously several builds that can be very difficult to play against if used by an experienced player. As today status the original four armies match each other very good (Red Blok, Karmans, Therians and UNA) some people say that Oni and Cogs really bring a new level they are by no means impossible to win against ESPECIALLY when playing with objectives and victory points, if you play “Line’em and Shoot’em” then some armies are in a heavy disadvantage due to the Accuracy (Red Blok). Enough cover and missions is what makes AT-43 different.
So at the moment those are the most common mechanics, there are more details but I ran out of time.

Cheers!
Wolfen

Wow, excellent overview, Wolfen. You've just made up my mind for me. I'm actually getting rid of my 40k stuff (no time to paint) and reinvesting in the armies of AT-43.

Do you have any experience with the Tactics system for this game as well? I would love to hear your opinions if you do.

*Disclaimer: I AM a Sentinel, but as Tactics isn't supported anymore, I have no reason to let that bias my analysis(except maybe a bit negatively, as I love Tactics)*

Tactics is a fun little system, but very limited in scope. There's no rules for ONI and Cogs in the book, so that'll be something you come up with yourself(not that hard, just use the already available abilities and determine ammo amounts based on existing units in the book). It uses the same rules of AT-43(with a few minor exceptions), with some minor Role playing thrown in: each character is played by a separate player and is given a small amount of wounds and ammo. Everyone starts the mission with a full ammo count, but once you blow through it you're out unless you have a refill. Ammo is lost by the number of SHOTS fired, not the times you fire, so heavier weapons go through ammo very quickly. The Characters can form units or be their own units at will depending on the players. The GM runs all of the enemy units(mostly Therians, some random Red Blok and UNA thrown in occasionally, IIRC) and is responsible for keeping track of everything that happens.

There's only 6-7 missions in the book, which follows a campaign parallel to the Damocles campaign. The players are trying to stop Damocles from self-destructing(hence why parties can be multi-factional) with the Therian in charge of Damocles attempting to stop them. It would be relatively easy to create new missions for your players and a whole new campaign, but realize that this is what you'll HAVE to do if you don't want to play the same missions/campaign over and over. Rackham has NO intent on producing more Tactics stuff, because it just didn't sell well.

Parties are formed around at least 4 Characters. The book even states that if you can't find that many, let players play multiple characters or control one yourself. All parties require the following and are allowed only ONE of each: an Officer, an Engineer, and a Medic. Other players may play characters of any type past this. I want to say there's maybe a limit to only one heavy, but I can't find the book ATM. There IS, however, a suggestion that you only allow a single Karman in the party, as powerful enough to be unbalancing(their words, not mine). I don't really see it, but the fact they put out so many shots probably has to do with it(they don't have more health than everyone else). Between games, players are allowed to "upgrade" between weapons and types of chracters(within the same faction). For Example, a player playing a UNA Star Trooper(Type *) could upgrade to a Star Trooper with MG or a Stell Trooper(Type **). There are restrictions on this: You can't upgrade to a Medic, Officer, or Engineer and Medics, Officers, and Engineers have to stay within their grouping(Star Trooper Medic to Steel Trooper Medic for example). Officers can become Type *** Officers, they'll just take a rank "demotion"(losing LP and Authority) to do it. Players who start out as Type ***(there's no restriction on what you can start as) can't do anything but change what kind of Type *** they are, so I'd house rule that they can't start as one just so that they have something to gain later on.

There's also various equipment you can pick up, including health packs(the Medic starts with one), Detonators(Engineer starts with one), Ammo refills, jump pack(and racial equivalents, some troops start with these), Vision Goggles(adds to Accuracy and lets you see stealth, some troops start with this). There as few other IIRC, but not much. They can be gained in missions and can be passed around if you don't start with it(Anakongas can't hand their out, for example).

Hope that helps!

If I were to buy brand new figs (not from ebay) how much would it cost me? The fact they come pre painted and assembled is awesome. I love painting my minis but I just don't have enough time. (I'm painting right now)

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:If I were to buy brand new figs (not from ebay) how much would it cost me? The fact they come pre painted and assembled is awesome. I love painting my minis but I just don't have enough time. (I'm painting right now)

Depends on what army you go with.

If you go Red Blok(collectivist space russians), Cogs(alien clones), or ONI(Corporate Zombie Mercenaries), they have Army boxes you can buy for ~$75 USD that gives you a full 200 points.

If you go with Karmans(Karma Gorillas), Therians(Robot bodies holding internet obsessed Earth human minds), and UNA(Future UN), you could probably pick up 2k for around $150-200 USD retail(probably less).

Mind, you won't be able to get some stuff without going online(Fire Toads, Steel Trooper attachments[probably won't find them at all], some Therian stuff).

I was thinking Karmans but I have no idea how to even begin. I know how to start with 40k, WHFB and Battletech but I wouldn't know how to start this one. Suggestions?

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:I was thinking Karmans but I have no idea how to even begin. I know how to start with 40k, WHFB and Battletech but I wouldn't know how to start this one. Suggestions?

Normally, I'd suggest starting with the book(still really do), but to get an idea of how building an army works download Open R:

http://rcommunity.nazgulworld.com/

Building a force is much different from building an army in 40K. You pick your army(in this case Karmans), then pick one of the Factions for that army. Each Faction has an Advantage and a Disadvantage and determines what units you can build a platoon out of. For Example:

Karman Libra Faction

Advantage: At the of his unit's activation, any unit with a medic may bring back a member of the unit who was eliminated.

Disadvantage: All units must have an Officer.

Template:
Infantry (X)!(means mandatory unit)
Infantry (XXX)
Infantry (ALL)
Infantry (ALL)
Armored (ALL), Soldiers (XXX)

What this means is that before buying anything else, you HAVE to include a Type * Infantry unit(Kaptars or Anakongas). After that, you may purchase any of the other selections in that list(in any order), but before building a second platoon(in which case you would start at the Typ* Inf at the top again), you have to fulfill that entire list. It's a bit confusing at first, but Open R helps out if you don't get the concept.

As well, Heroes aren't bought like 40K. They are bought as an add on to a unit(what types will say in their entry) and can never leave their unit. There are a few exceptions, like the Red Blok twins that are bought as their own unit if not in their vehicle, and Heroes with vehicles(which may be the only vehicle in their unit). The only time an Infantry Hero is alone is when the rest of his unit is dead(incidentally, also the only time an Infantry hero may take hits, as well).

For Karmans, I'd suggest pick up one Type * unit(Kaptars or Anakongas), one Type **(Wendigos or Yetis), and at least one Type * Vehicle(Dirt or Easy Trike, I'd recommend two, though). For Karmans, that will give you around 1000 points to try them out.

Also, the Karman Army Box is due in May. It contains: Mentor Freezer +4 Kaptars, Venerable Cornelius +5 Wendigos, 2 Jungle Trikes, and 1 Storm Mammoth(with the parts for a King Mammoth)

Platuan4th wrote:

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:I was thinking Karmans but I have no idea how to even begin. I know how to start with 40k, WHFB and Battletech but I wouldn't know how to start this one. Suggestions?

Normally, I'd suggest starting with the book(still really do), but to get an idea of how building an army works download Open R:

http://rcommunity.nazgulworld.com/

Building a force is much different from building an army in 40K. You pick your army(in this case Karmans), then pick one of the Factions for that army. Each Faction has an Advantage and a Disadvantage and determines what units you can build a platoon out of. For Example:

Karman Libra Faction

Advantage: At the of his unit's activation, any unit with a medic may bring back a member of the unit who was eliminated.

Disadvantage: All units must have an Officer.

Template:
Infantry (X)!(means mandatory unit)
Infantry (XXX)
Infantry (ALL)
Infantry (ALL)
Armored (ALL), Soldiers (XXX)

What this means is that before buying anything else, you HAVE to include a Type * Infantry unit(Kaptars or Anakongas). After that, you may purchase any of the other selections in that list(in any order), but before building a second platoon(in which case you would start at the Typ* Inf at the top again), you have to fulfill that entire list. It's a bit confusing at first, but Open R helps out if you don't get the concept.

As well, Heroes aren't bought like 40K. They are bought as an add on to a unit(what types will say in their entry) and can never leave their unit. There are a few exceptions, like the Red Blok twins that are bought as their own unit if not in their vehicle, and Heroes with vehicles(which may be the only vehicle in their unit). The only time an Infantry Hero is alone is when the rest of his unit is dead(incidentally, also the only time an Infantry hero may take hits, as well).

For Karmans, I'd suggest pick up one Type * unit(Kaptars or Anakongas), one Type **(Wendigos or Yetis), and at least one Type * Vehicle(Dirt or Easy Trike, I'd recommend two, though). For Karmans, that will give you around 1000 points to try them out.

Also, the Karman Army Box is due in May. It contains: Mentor Freezer +4 Kaptars, Venerable Cornelius +5 Wendigos, 2 Jungle Trikes, and 1 Storm Mammoth(with the parts for a King Mammoth)

All before is right, but also you can download ALL the rule book and ALL amry books here : http://games.rackham-e.com/en/at-43/game-aids/rules?

BTW, heroes as infantry can ALSO be eliminated by Sniper fire even when the unti is still alive

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:I was thinking Karmans but I have no idea how to even begin. I know how to start with 40k, WHFB and Battletech but I wouldn't know how to start this one. Suggestions?

As it was also mentioned, the Karmans Army box will be available in may, with this boox you will have a 2000AP starter set, which is good for the price but it MAY not be good enough to play against player which have more minis...

A bit on the basics, there are basically 4 types of units available (at least in paper); Infantry, Soldiers, Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFV) and Striders. While Infantry/Soldiers and AFV /Striders are similar they are not exchangeable terms.

Infantry: includes Units of Soldiers (minimum 4-9 with or without special weapons) and Support units (2-3 special weapons bearers or MedTec), and most of the rules are exactly the same. The most significant difference is that Support units cannot have officials/heroes

Armored Fighting Vehicles: Include Striders (including Oni tanks) and Transports. Striders are only those that are named so, in this case Oni are a bit different as some of their tanks are also transports. Other armies have a separate entry for this.

Heroes usually follow the same rules as the type of unit they represent (Infantry or AFV), can join particular types of units explicitly written in the rules and thus form part of the unit and cannot leave it. However a hero can join a unit during the game if:
a) He was on an AFV that was destroyed, can join a unit specifically mentioned in their entry and only if the unit does not have an officer.
b) He was in an infantry unit and that unit was destroyed and only if he can join a new unit of the types allowed in their entries.

All armies have 3 levels of “expertise” in each type (infantry or AFV):

Infantry
Type 1* = Grunts, the lowest of the low and cannon fodder (I am mainly a red blok player so I am a bit careless with this units)
Type 2* = Specialized units with better stats, a bit better armor but in some cases less amount of fighters per unit
Type 3* = they come in powered armor and are very few (3 fighters/unit) in comparison to the other types, some armies have the possibility to increase this number nevertheless but at a significant cost in AP.

AFV’s
Type 1* = usually called Recon Striders are small vehicles that can pack a punch and usually are a bit faster than the bigger brothers but have less armor, less power in the weapons and can be bought in units of 3-4
Type 2*= in most cases this is a unit of 1 vehicle (Oni is the exception), they are bigger, slower and have several specialized weapons that can also kill units alone.
Type 3*= extremely big, extremely powerful, the best armor and arguably the best weapons to kill tanks, they are also in units of 1 (except Cogs/Oni) but come in a significant cost in AP.

The 6 available armies (with a 7th coming in the next months) have distinct play style and fluff, I will give you a small review about them:

U.N.A. = They are humans, however they were seeded in Ava, their home planet by the Therians in order to destroy the eco-system so the Therians could use the planet as raw materials. They have a distinct flavor as “American” army, from the human point of view they have a highly advanced armament and society including the “Avan way of life”. The fluff also have references to American culture as the ideas or places (examples: East Line = West Point or the Hexahedron = The Pentagon). From the game point of view, the UNA is a fairly balanced army, it is what I would say the standard army in terms of stats and weapons, they have a good range in the weapons and a “normal” armor values, they are not extremely speedy as other armies but they are not the slowest, on the other hand they have also a penchant for locked shot weapons and they have the ONLY unit that can Tag an enemy to fire such weapons.

Therians = They are us, the real humans from Earth = Thera= Therians, but evolved to the point where they don’t need flesh bodied but robots, they can be seen as the “evil” faction but in truth they destroy the universe so they can preserve it as they know that in a couple billion of year the Universe will expand so much that life would be all but impossible. As an army they are also “balanced” but tend a bit on the “elite-ish” side. The weapons are not elite in general but are a pinch better than the UNA counterparts. They have very good AFV’s, and slightly better armor, but what make the Therians a force to be reckoned with is the Routines, the possibility to “summon”, create or fusion some of the units makes them a very tough army to play against.

Red Blok = My favorite army, they are Space Communists with all the clichés, they have cheap infantry with lower armor and “crappy weapons” at long range but as useful in short range, the AFV however slow they may be they are the most resistant so far, they are stocky and difficult to kill. Personally I like the feeling of being a difficult army to play both with and against. They definitely cannot stay at long range they need to go for the kill. Also I think they have several tricks on their hand, they can mess up with the Leadership points of the enemy pool, exchange activation cards etc.

Karmans = a preliminary experiment of the Therians that didn’t work because they became ecologists, simple? Not really, they were the therians warriors and they develop an ability to use the Karma somehow, I don’t play with them but in my experience they are an Elite army with low bodies to suck up bullets, but an amazing shooting possibility, not necessarily the most accurate but they can saturate the air with bullets. The AFVs are FAST and some platoons have the possibility to make them stealth, while not the most resistant they really pack a punch. They work better in good synergy within their units. A lot of KArmans players have mentioned that Karmans have one of the steepest and longest learning curve and I have seen huge losses but also huge wins. In two words: Glass Cannons.

Cogs = My third army and second favorite, Cogs are clones, they live to show their supremacy, among themselves and another races. the fluff is quite good and I recommend that you read it in the book, quite refreshing. On the game side Cogs minis are double size of humans so they cannot have “normal” cover but you can pay for cover each round with Lp which makes them very resistant to most type of fire (attention with indirect fire as it ignores cover) but this LP dependency makes them vulnerable to effects that reduce or cancel the possibility to use them. They are Elite army with E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y long range and re-rolls with an OK number of shots in ALL weapons, they will almost never fail to hit, the weapons are not so different to UNA so they will most of the time wound similarly to them, the AFVs are different, both in style and game play, but they can be seen as “average” slightly on the weak side but that doesn’t mean that can underestimate them. Cogs are a Long range army

Oni Corporation = They are the “new kid on the block” and they came with strange things, you can make a zombie army that explodes when in close combat or a zombie army that transform your units into zombies or an elite-human army similar to therians and UNA in weapons or a combination of everything, The Tanks (in wheels) are tough and be careful with them, they are nowadays the army to beat. Tactics seem to be any type long range, short range etc. Although I lack enough experience they seem to be an all-around army for every situation.

I will give you a crash course in army building. I am no Karman player and I cannot really give you particular tactics, but you can go to the official forum, there a few Karman players that can give you significant input.

Each army/race has several platoon formations (normally 4), one of them is usually a Vanilla platoon without any disadvantage or advantage, and usually lets you create a very balanced formation, including armored vehicles and infantry. Each platoon have 5 selections that you have to make, the first selection is Always compulsory (you cannot avoid buying the unit specified in that entry) the next four you can buy as you wish to the limit of points and, if you have points left, you can start a new platoon buying the compulsory unit. The command display of platoon looks like this:
- Selection 1 (*/**/***) ! = (!) indicates compulsory
- Selection 2 (*/**/***)
- Selection 3 (*/**/***)
- Selection 4 (*/**/***)
- Selection 5 (*/**/***)

I really need to find some players in my area! God I really want to do more than the demos at Gencon! I love the story, the units, the races, and I've been repainting a UNA army to my more personalized nature, but these are by far the BEST prepaints on the market, and great sculpts!

There doesn't seem to be a release list anywhere for new stock, even on the Rackham forum. Where are people finding the information out about the upcoming boxed sets?

Confrontation: AoR, on the other hand, seems to be alive and well.

sinfreealex wrote:There doesn't seem to be a release list anywhere for new stock, even on the Rackham forum. Where are people finding the information out about the upcoming boxed sets?

Confrontation: AoR, on the other hand, seems to be alive and well.

Dunno about AoR but AT-43 is verymuch alive.It is "uncorfirmed" but...

http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=7589

although March releases seem a tad late, but there are already sites with pre-oders:

http://www.thewarstore.com/product52820.html
[url]
http://www.thewarstore.com/product52821.html[/url]




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And someart and greens and concepts of the At-43 new army going to be released this year:

http://www.at43-forum.de/bilder/Kryg.bmp
http://www.at43-forum.de/bilder/KrygProto.bmp
http://www.at43-forum.de/bilder/KrygMGS.bmp

Rackham releases are always a few weeks late.

This is not a mistake, it is a tradition

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:what is AT-43? how are the mechanics? I take it that it is more balanced than 40k? I am also assuming it is much cheaper than 40k. I'm feeding a WHFB addiction right now and I want to go for a sci fi game in addition to battletech. thanks for the replies guys.

Cairnius will do his thing...but much more kindly, everyone. Don't Panic. *grin*


Mechanics: very fast, very brutal. I move a unit, you move a unit, I move a unit. Who goes first each turn often changes hands. There's a psychological and tactical game to be played just with deciding which units move when, which is very different from 40K.


Balance: Depends on who you ask. I think there's a lot of kvetching about newer armies like Cogs and Oni, but perhaps it just hasn't been long enough for people to come up with adequate counter-tactics. The thing about AT-43 is that the way the game is designed to be played, players finalize their Army lists AFTER the mission is decided. Finalizing lists is the last thing you do...so once you know the mission, and the faction your opponent is fielding, you can tailor your list properly if you have a deep enough miniatures collection.

My personal feeling? The balance in AT-43 is mostly based on this aspect of the game, the fact that tailoring armies (which is very often really frowned upon in 40K circles) is the normal state of the game in AT-43.


Cheaper than 40K? This totally depends on how you build your army.

Now, Army Boxes can go as cheap as $60 shipped online. That's a full 2000 AP army, ready to play right out of the box. It won't be the most competitive army, but it's supposed to be balanced with all the other Army Box armies - so if you want to try and get friends into the game, buying some Army Boxes is the best way to go. STARTING AT-43 is much cheaper than any other wargame out there, hands down.

When it comes to everything besides the Army Boxes, right now prices on AT-43 stuff in the United States is deflated due to the former American distributor of AT-43, Fantasy Flight Games, ceasing to be the official, American distributor back in 2008. They had a warehouse of stuff they started selling at ridiculous discounts, which The War Store and Miniature Market then bought out and offered at 66% percent off.

So, for a while, yeah you could get an arseload of AT-43 stuff for dirt cheap.

Now, things are stabilizing. You will still see very cheap prices on a lot of stuff, mostly the whole Karman army selection as I guess FFG had more of that to offload than anything, but now this cheap stock is beginning to run out and some armies are getting back to regular prices. New armies like Cogs and Oni have their army boxes, but once you get into regular units you will be looking at paying, say, $90 for a full unit of Recon Armored Fighting Vehicles, which you may only run one of, $50 for a full infantry unit with all the specialists and special weapon bearers, and $30 for the special Hero characters. 40K prices are actually cheaper on a unit-per-unit basis, but then again you have to build and paint those 40K models.

With AT-43, you are basically paying for the privilege of not having to build or paint anything. That's the game's primary hook for a lot of people. Not all, but a lot.


I now want to give you some cheers and jeers for AT-43.

Cheers:

1) The fluff. I LOVE the fluff for AT-43. I find it extremely refreshing. The basic story is something I find it much easier to relate to. It reads like something that could actually be part of our universe....albiet a billion years from now or something like that...but it's fresh and different.

2) Open R Community Software - you can download this off the Rackham Entertainment official forums. Designed and maintained by a guy who goes by Nazghul, Open R is absolutely fething brilliant. You can track your mini collection and build army lists, design missions for AT-43 if you download the map pack...this software in and of itself has kept me interested in AT-43. And it's free. Absolutely free.


Jeers:

1) The rules suffer from syntax, not design. There are translation problems as the game is French and written originally in that language, and Rackham E. is not very good about answering rules questions. The official FAQ is extremely thin compared to the number of questions that players actually have about the rules, and so there is a very large "unofficial, official" FAQ you are going to have to refer to for rules clarifications.

You may encounter frustration with the game when you first start to play, but you WILL get through it. Just be prepared for this so it doesn't surprise you. I actually lost a few players I tried to bring into AT-43 because they weren't willing to deal with not being able to find easy answers to rules questions like they did when they started playing 40K and Flames of War. AT-43 is first edition, and has translation problems. It's just something you have to accept before you go in. Have your eyes wide open, and know that it won't last. Like any other wargame, once you know the rules you'll play it as smoothly as anything else. It's just a rough learning curve.


2) Be careful if you head over to the official AT-43 forums. Many of the vets over there are really punchy when it comes to rules questions, so use the Search function liberally and see if someone has asked your question before. Or ask us on here. Rackham E. does a really bad job of policing their forums for behavior and politeness. You *will* most likely get mocked as a noob if you head over there asking questions that have been asked a thousand times before. A member of my New England AT-43 forum recently went head-to-head with a vet on the AT-43 forums and it sounded like he needed counseling. Poor sod.


3) Be careful in the army you start with, because many core units are sold out. UNA and Red Blok seem to be the biggest culprits. They are both missing absolutely core units to successful armies which you either cannot find, or will have to pay through the nose for. Fire Toads for UNA, and Nakovalny Sierps for Red Blok are the biggest issues. If you start as Karmans, you should not only be fine but should get the army on the cheap.

4) The advertised pictures of the miniatures are very often NOT what you get in the box. Be ready for this. Vehicle paint jobs are pretty good across the board, never had any problems with them, and the earlier releases have tampography which is excellent. That's putting paint on a metal stamp and then applying it to a mini. Looks like an expertly-applied transfer, but it isn't. It's permanently on there, and it looks great.

5) Free play with AT-43 is problematic. To get consistenly-balanced missions, you will pretty much have to stick to what's published in the rulebook and the campaign books. The terrain ruleset for AT-43 is only designed around the gaming posters and the "official" terrain for AT-43: containers, walls, and the virtual terrain on the posters and gaming tiles. This isn't like 40K where you can toss down a bunch of homemade terrain and just start playing, not without making up some of your own rules when it comes to how to handle terrain types that aren't explicitly defined in the rulebook.

However, this doesn't stop a crapton of people from playing AT-43 on "regular" gaming tables, they just have different ways of doing it. There are a lot of different pick-up play systems you can find in the Workshop section of the AT-43 forums. This is a link to my favorite system, which is not even the one I made.

http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=3071

Great stuff.

Is the Operation Damocles Initiation set a good place to start? I am interested in both armies included and don't mind waiting for the UNA army box. I just want to get some thing that a friend and I can start playing with on the cheap. It also shows on a few of the scenarios from the Rackham website that you can buy two of these boxes to play the scenarios. Could this also be an option to expand a bit if the base game and armies are to my liking?

I personally no longer think that the Operation Damocles box is worth the money. The only thing of real value in there is the Fire Toad, but that's not worth paying $45 for. The terrain is 6 low walls and three containers...but you get 6 low walls with an Army Box that comes with a full 2000AP army, and the Operation Damocles set only comes with two units for each faction.

Army Boxes are the way to go. Therians are a pain to play as for a lot of people due to rules issues, so I'd actually advise not starting with them. UNA is fun to play, but they are missing a lot of basic units and so it can be frustrating for new players to build an army. Red Blok Army Box is good, but the missing Sierps are a problem.

I'd go with Karmans, Cogs, or Oni purely for the ability to find the miniatures you need quickly. The Karman Army Box is coming out in April supposedly, and the UNA Army Box is due in June...which means expect them in May and July, respectively.

Cairnius wrote:
Cairnius will do his thing...but much more kindly, everyone. Don't Panic. *grin*

Cairnius wrote:
Cheers:

1) The fluff. I LOVE the fluff for AT-43. I find it extremely refreshing. The basic story is something I find it much easier to relate to. It reads like something that could actually be part of our universe....albiet a billion years from now or something like that...but it's fresh and different.

2) Open R Community Software - you can download this off the Rackham Entertainment official forums. Designed and maintained by a guy who goes by Nazghul, Open R is absolutely fething brilliant. You can track your mini collection and build army lists, design missions for AT-43 if you download the map pack...this software in and of itself has kept me interested in AT-43. And it's free. Absolutely free.

Cairnius wrote:Jeers:

1) The rules suffer from syntax, not design. There are translation problems as the game is French and written originally in that language, and Rackham E. is not very good about answering rules questions. The official FAQ is extremely thin compared to the number of questions that players actually have about the rules, and so there is a very large "unofficial, official" FAQ you are going to have to refer to for rules clarifications.

Agreed, translation is the main issue with the rules, plus a few tweaks here and there and the rules would be perfect, in my case as I am NOT english native speaker, i found the rules ok, but maybe for others the syntax is not good.

Cairnius wrote:
2) Be careful if you head over to the official AT-43 forums. Many of the vets over there are really punchy when it comes to rules questions, so use the Search function liberally and see if someone has asked your question before. Or ask us on here. Rackham E. does a really bad job of policing their forums for behavior and politeness. You *will* most likely get mocked as a noob if you head over there asking questions that have been asked a thousand times before. A member of my New England AT-43 forum recently went head-to-head with a vet on the AT-43 forums and it sounded like he needed counseling. Poor sod.

I would not say MANY Vets. In fact I can only think of one Vet that is significantly RUDE all over the place, I have never seen a general dislike for noobs and, as matter of fact, recently we have had quite a few comming and I have not yet seen a bad reception-(i dont know if it happened or not but, i just havent seen it!) HOWEVER I do suggets you improve your search-fu, so you avoid repetitions. OR as Cairnius (he who must not be named in the official forum! ) said. Come over a few of us will answer most of your questions.

Cairnius wrote:

3) Be careful in the army you start with, because many core units are sold out. UNA and Red Blok seem to be the biggest culprits. They are both missing absolutely core units to successful armies which you either cannot find, or will have to pay through the nose for. Fire Toads for UNA, and Nakovalny Sierps for Red Blok are the biggest issues. If you start as Karmans, you should not only be fine but should get the army on the cheap

Thats sad for the USA, I have been able to find a few sierps and Toads here in Europe... not that I need them but I have seen them arround in a few stores.

Cairnius wrote:
4) The advertised pictures of the miniatures are very often NOT what you get in the box. Be ready for this. Vehicle paint jobs are pretty good across the board, never had any problems with them, and the earlier releases have tampography which is excellent. That's putting paint on a metal stamp and then applying it to a mini. Looks like an expertly-applied transfer, but it isn't. It's permanently on there, and it looks great.

Atenttion here, lets make a bit difference, Originally the paints were ok and they improve, when you buy small boxes of minis... unit boxes and attachement boxes of both inf and AFv you will find quite a nice quality, specially in the most recent armies, HOWEVER when you buy the ARMY box in order to make them as cheap, you will be missing quite a few degrees in painting or marklings in the AFV, THATS NORMAL, so dont get surprised.

Cairnius wrote:I personally no longer think that the Operation Damocles box is worth the money. The only thing of real value in there is the Fire Toad, but that's not worth paying $45 for. The terrain is 6 low walls and three containers...but you get 6 low walls with an Army Box that comes with a full 2000AP army, and the Operation Damocles set only comes with two units for each faction.

Army Boxes are the way to go. Therians are a pain to play as for a lot of people due to rules issues, so I'd actually advise not starting with them. UNA is fun to play, but they are missing a lot of basic units and so it can be frustrating for new players to build an army. Red Blok Army Box is good, but the missing Sierps are a problem.

I'd go with Karmans, Cogs, or Oni purely for the ability to find the miniatures you need quickly. The Karman Army Box is coming out in April supposedly, and the UNA Army Box is due in June...which means expect them in May and July, respectively.

Yeap... as it was said before, Being late is a RAckham tradition

Another n00b interested in AT-43 here. So when you say that these units are sold out, does that mean that they will never again be made by Rackham? That is several degrees of suck if that's the case, as UNA and RB are the two armies I want to build. Ah well, I'll just comb through The Warstore and Miniature Market to see what I can get.

Gitkikka wrote:Another n00b interested in AT-43 here. So when you say that these units are sold out, does that mean that they will never again be made by Rackham? That is several degrees of suck if that's the case, as UNA and RB are the two armies I want to build. Ah well, I'll just comb through The Warstore and Miniature Market to see what I can get.

From what I have been reading, it seems that they do a production run, it sells out, then they do another one. Seems that they are now consolidating the armies into Army Boxes now, which makes sense.

*Disclaimer* I eat Sentinels.*

Most of what you need to know has been covered already so this is only a top up of general opinions plus my own take, which does differ from some.

First off.
Rackham have seen sense to put ALL their rulebooks and codexes on the web for free and legal download.
I suggest you start by downloading everything on the Rackham downloads page.
It might behoove you to go back and do the same thing for Confrontation.



c34r34lk1ll3r asks:
what is AT-43?

Set 43 years after an alien invasion by "Necrons" of a planet split into "NATO" and "Warsaw Pact" factions with roughly Inner Sphere technology. The invasion was fought off but resulted in environmental and societal cataclysm to the extent the calender was reset. The thrree other current factions include intelligent Gorillas, Tau/Space Marine hybrids and a Resident Evil megacorp controlling a zombie horde.


how are the mechanics?

Generally very good. It took 40K many editions to get it more or less right Rackham have got it mostly right first time. Note the mostly.
The order system adds tactical opportunities, however the points pool to draw from is too large and some of the order so essential that a lot of the choice making is in effect taken away.
There are some glaring errors though. While the lethality of the system is refreshing and welcome, it can lead to tactical 'no brianers'. Some weapon systems are borken. For example in the vanilla rules you don't get saves from blast weapons, which means that if you are in range of artillery (which is likely) you cannot skill play to save your troops. Cover is also under-encouraged on official maps and senarios. This can make the game a little like kiddie toy soldiers where you line up your men and knock them down with your hands.
All this is fixable with house rules, and with some minor tweaking from Rackham AT-43 could well become the SF infantry scale game of choice.


I take it that it is more balanced than 40k?

Yes and no. The game is essentially designed to be played in playmats, they even have one provided in each major boxset. With a skirmish game set on a 2x3 foot surfacer the game is balanced. If you try to make 40K sized armies and play on a 6x4 then huge imbalances will be revealed.
On this note Rackham is learning and the forums are talking about expanding the size of a standard game (which encourages sales as armies are naturally larger) however the company has yet to learn that a size increase will require a rebalnce of some armies and units.
Also some units are underpointed, overpointed or have unbalanced special rules, though none to the extent of the worst abuses in 40K. Only one unit, Babylon Zero, has a reputation of being unfair, though many are notably underperforming.


I am also assuming it is much cheaper than 40k.

Don't assume, look. You have missed most of the firesale that raged last year, however you can still get into AT-43 cheap if you look around for the right bargains.
I have opened many threads on this subject over the past year with the intention of encouraging people to get into AT-43 while it was cheap. read back for AT-43 threads started under my name, most are pointers to cheap sales and low cost purchase plans. Some of which still works today.


If I were to buy brand new figs (not from ebay) how much would it cost me?

Depends on what you get. Getting multiple army boxes is the best way forward, though ther army boxes are set up so that you get a lot of top end units and heroes thus giving a diminshing return. This is only fair because you are getting every thing else cheap and Rackham wants to sell unit boxes not just lots of army boxes.
Your options depend on the army you want. and your opponents. Will you be buiying multiple armies and hosting, or buying one army and playing others with armies.
Current Rackham website and European prices are a rip off. Default pricing is only cheaper than 40K because of the army boxes and those are loss leaders. A bit like Black reach, only better value. For the best value buy from the USA, unit prices are MUCH lower.

Miniature Market is a good place to start:
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/at_43
Warstore is also good.

Though any savvy net user should look for himself rather than just lazily click offered links. MM is good but no longer complete, look around search and searxch again, you will be suprised what you can get.

I was thinking Karmans but I have no idea how to even begin. I know how to start with 40k, WHFB and Battletech but I wouldn't know how to start this one. Suggestions?

You are in luck.
Karmans were the least popular of the four armies on initial release. Not worse by any means, just less well selling. This means that Karmans are still on the firesale. If you wanted UNA you might have had problems as they sold out quickly and much is unavailable. Some units are still on firesale prices, some at full price, some you just cannot get without luck and a long search. Karmans however are still available at rock bottom prices, and no units are out of stock for long.
Take a look:

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/karmans

When it comes to getting an army to face them you will have more problems though Therians are also easy to get into from the same site with very few units missing.

Is the Operation Damocles Initiation set a good place to start?

If you can get some boxes yes. Note the plural. Damocles offers something akin to Black Reach, except that Rackham cant be bothered to source you much of the ranges to go with them. However with three Damocles boxes or more (I eventually bought six) you have a core of two good sized armies. Your infantry wont include specialists, but as a 40K player you ought to have no problems converting one soldier to look like a sergeant, one like a medic, alternate heavy weapons, officers etc.
The bad news is that Damocles is pretty much sold out, Rackham isnt stocking it and it has been a long time since I saw it at a decent price. Multiple Damocles for $20-$30 was a very good way to build your UNA and Therian armies, at $50-$70+ its a rip off, especially when compared to army boxes.
Also there are no Karmans in the Damocles box.

Sinfree alex says
Wow, excellent overview, Wolfen. You've just made up my mind for me. I'm actually getting rid of my 40k stuff (no time to paint) and reinvesting in the armies of AT-43.

Big mistake. You will likely come back to 40K someday and will need to reinvest at higher cost. Save the stuff you have and account for a slightly smaller budget to buy AT-43.
Only ditch your 40K if its really craply painted or your want to fgive up on the whole gaming hobby, which you are not doing if you are switching systems.

However do switch your hobby money from 40K to AT-43, I think you get a far better return for your cash.

Gitkikka says
Another n00b interested in AT-43 here. So when you say that these units are sold out, does that mean that they will never again be made by Rackham?

I think it has more to do with the fact that Rackham outsources all its manufacturing to China. Rackham has little or no control over its own production base unlike Games Workshop, thus if stuff is out of stock from the manufacturer it may be out of stock for a long time.



* Tasty, tasty, Sentinels.

Orlanth wrote:I think it has more to do with the fact that Rackham outsources all its manufacturing to China. Rackham has little or no control over its own production base unlike Games Workshop, thus if stuff is out of stock from the manufacturer it may be out of stock for a long time.

OOS for a while is better than never again, I suppose. As mentioned, these missing units may find their way into future army boxes, which is just fine by me.

Come on, tax return! I have a job for you when you get here!

Orlanth wrote:Sinfree alex says
Wow, excellent overview, Wolfen. You've just made up my mind for me. I'm actually getting rid of my 40k stuff (no time to paint) and reinvesting in the armies of AT-43.

Big mistake. You will likely come back to 40K someday and will need to reinvest at higher cost. Save the stuff you have and account for a slightly smaller budget to buy AT-43.
Only ditch your 40K if its really craply painted or your want to fgive up on the whole gaming hobby, which you are not doing if you are switching systems.

However do switch your hobby money from 40K to AT-43, I think you get a far better return for your cash.

While I appreciate the advice you provided, Orlanth, There's some things you should know. This was my 2nd run at 40K since I played back in 3rd Edition and I'm no more impressed now than I was then. I'm honestly sick of assembling and painting miniatures and it's not worth the price to me to have them painted for me. I love the novels, fluff, and maybe half of the overall way the game looks, but it's just not enough. I may even run some Rouge Trader, Deathwatch, and Dark Heresy campaigns in the next year or so. As far as the miniatures side of things go, I'll hang on to my Space Hulk and I love it dearly. Everything else that isn't on eBay currently, will be listed in the next few days. I have no time for the hobby side of the game. The rules are good, but nowhere near the fun I had with Warmachine. I doubt I'll miss my armies all that much, considering this is the second time in my life that I've collected, painted and assembled two 2000 - 3000 point armies, then turn around and sell them on eBay. I'll stick to my growing boardgame, pre-painted miniature games, and card games. This, of course, doesn't mean I won't customize my AT-43, Confrontation and Heroscape mintuares. Or stop me from building terrain, a love of mine, for the games I play. I'm not giving up on hobby gaming as a whole, I'm just going to vote for the products that I enjoy and think the companies deserve my dollar. Don't lump me in with anyone you've ever known or met in this hobby or set of game systems, you would be surprised.

sinfreealex wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Sinfree alex says
Wow, excellent overview, Wolfen. You've just made up my mind for me. I'm actually getting rid of my 40k stuff (no time to paint) and reinvesting in the armies of AT-43.

Big mistake. You will likely come back to 40K someday and will need to reinvest at higher cost. Save the stuff you have and account for a slightly smaller budget to buy AT-43.
Only ditch your 40K if its really craply painted or your want to fgive up on the whole gaming hobby, which you are not doing if you are switching systems.

However do switch your hobby money from 40K to AT-43, I think you get a far better return for your cash.

While I appreciate the advice you provided, Orlanth, There's some things you should know. This was my 2nd run at 40K since I played back in 3rd Edition and I'm no more impressed now than I was then. I'm honestly sick of assembling and painting miniatures and it's not worth the price to me to have them painted for me. I love the novels, fluff, and maybe half of the overall way the game looks, but it's just not enough. I may even run some Rouge Trader, Deathwatch, and Dark Heresy campaigns in the next year or so. As far as the miniatures side of things go, I'll hang on to my Space Hulk and I love it dearly. Everything else that isn't on eBay currently, will be listed in the next few days. I have no time for the hobby side of the game. The rules are good, but nowhere near the fun I had with Warmachine. I doubt I'll miss my armies all that much, considering this is the second time in my life that I've collected, painted and assembled two 2000 - 3000 point armies, then turn around and sell them on eBay. I'll stick to my growing boardgame, pre-painted miniature games, and card games. This, of course, doesn't mean I won't customize my AT-43, Confrontation and Heroscape mintuares. Or stop me from building terrain, a love of mine, for the games I play. I'm not giving up on hobby gaming as a whole, I'm just going to vote for the products that I enjoy and think the companies deserve my dollar. Don't lump me in with anyone you've ever known or met in this hobby or set of game systems, you would be surprised.

Thats exactly what I did as well, twice i fall into 40k and that was it... no moe, ever, I like part of the fluff and some minis, but I have no time for painting a full army(ies) so that was it, Im looking to other games as well, and I plan to paint...small skirmish games.... meanwhile I can play At43 all I want

Sure advice about personal choices always sounds unwelcome, but should be taken with the spirit with which it is given.

I never re-bought 40k, but I did sell off and recollect Warhammer, which was expensive to do. Your thoughts now are not likely to be your thoughts of five years time.

Also you might move somewhere where noone plays AT-43. I know this is likely in the UK where the game has a very small following mainly due to GW store saturation and poor pricing policies from Rackham. AT-43 needs to undercut its competitors, and the Americans are showing it can be done while still turning profit.

Thats the maddening thing, US based non firesale items are 40% less than Rackham and UK prices, though that includes currency changes.

There's a good group of players that meet weekly at Adler hobby in Hollis on the Nashua/Mass boarder line.
There also pretty active on the New England AT-43 yahoo group NEAT-43. they have a great files section with useful downloads like cheat sheets and rule pdfs.
Seems they will be starting the Operation Damocles Campaign soon and be a good opportunity to see games being played if your new and in the area.