Powerfist vs. monolith.

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**IggyEssEmManlyMan**

This came up last week. A suggested my friend should assault the monolith with his 5 terminators w/ power fists. he said he couldn't because the last sentence of the Living Metal rule states attackers use their un-augmented strength and 1 D6 ALWAYS. And he said since the powefist augments strength(doubles strength to maximum of 10), it cannot be used as S8 vs monoliths.

I've read a lot and it seems to me that Rules AS EXACTLY worded this is correct. Can anyone confirm or deny this with rules to back it up? I would very much rejoice if this were true, but I'm not a cheater and if this is wrong I need to know.

**don_mondo**

Grrrr. I swear I only clicked it once.

What the? It showed two posts, so I edited this one. ANyways, what Nos said with one addition.

This is specifically covered in the Necron FAQ! Read it.

**nosferatu1001**

The weapon strikes at its own unaugmented strength - which happens to be double the users strength.

**IggyEssEmManlyMan**

where can I find the necrons FAQ? I downloaded an FAQ from a sticky somehwhere on Dakka but it only has like 2 or 3 things about necrons and this isnt covered by them.

**solkan**

I had a nice rant written out about the problems caused by the subtly different versions of the Living Metal rule, but I deleted all that after checking the Necron FAQ and seeing the entry:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

"Q. Does a model with a powerfist/claw that attacks a Monolith get to double its Strength for armour penetration rolls? A. Yes, powerfists/claws, thunder hammers, and so on still double their user's Strength when attacking a Monolith."

So, despite the fact that the most recent edition of the rule implies otherwise, according to GW's FAQ the terminators should have been using S8 instead of S4.

Where's the *bang head into wall* Orkmoticon when you need it?

**bonekrusher**

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

*edit*
Oops, Solkan beat me to it...

**zeshin**

It specifically covers power fists/claws, and thunderhammers. Though I really don't know where they are coming from since the RAW clearly states the opposite of the FAQ's. (no surprise there I guess)
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

**nosferatu1001**

No, the RAW states it uses the unmodified strength of the weapon. The weapons unmodified strength is 2xwielder.

**zeshin**

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, the RAW states it uses the unmodified strength of the weapon. The weapons unmodified strength is 2xwielder.

Assuming GW is precise and calculating with their verbage (rather than accidentilly getting sticky and complex rules right) what weapons augment their own strength? Were they really specifiying a weapon that has augnmented strength or did they just use loose verbage so we have to guess at RAI?

**Sliggoth**

If you have to choose between GW likely being precise and calculating out oll the possibilities vs them getting lucky...always bet that they just got lucky and found an acorn this time.

Sliggoth

**orkcommander**

It is FAQed.

**nosferatu1001**

Furious charge modifies the strength of the weapon.

**Kurgash**

I just looked at my codex and where are you guys getting the idea that the monolith negates a possible powerfist? It just says regarding armor value reduction and extra penetration dice in mine.

**Sanctjud**

I think it was because it was poorly written in that it "ignore all doubling effects" or something like that, which is what the fist equivalents do.

But it has been FAQed that the fist equivalents work...so anyone choosing option 1 should really post and say why so we can flame them IMO.

**nosferatu1001**

It was written to state "unaugmented strength of the weapon" - and people were then equating the powerfists normal strength, which is double the wielders strength, as being a modifier.

The FAQ doesnt change the rule, just explains that yes, they really did mean the strength of the *weapon" when they wrote the rule. It does mean the Furious Charge, whcih modifies the powerfist from 2S to 2S+1, doesnt work, as FC has modified the powerfists base strength.

**zeshin**

nosferatu1001 wrote:It was written to state "unaugmented strength of the weapon" - and people were then equating the powerfists normal strength, which is double the wielders strength, as being a modifier.

The FAQ doesnt change the rule, just explains that yes, they really did mean the strength of the *weapon" when they wrote the rule. It does mean the Furious Charge, whcih modifies the powerfist from 2S to 2S+1, doesnt work, as FC has modified the powerfists base strength.

Does Furious Charge really modify the power fists strength and not the models/weilders strength?

**lixulana**

furious charge works because it makes the base strength of the attack 9. this is covered in the BBB.

the rule is hard to apply since the rules have changed since it used to be pointed at tank hunters and the like mostly.

**nosferatu1001**

the unmodified strength of the weapon is 2S. If you have now modified the strength to 2S+1, you have a modified strength...

**Orkestra**

As nos said, we know that FC isn't modifying the user's base strength, or else PK nobs would be s10 ( s(4+1)x2 )

**Kurgash**

Sanctjud wrote:I think it was because it was poorly written in that it "ignore all doubling effects" or something like that, which is what the fist equivalents do.

But it has been FAQed that the fist equivalents work...so anyone choosing option 1 should really post and say why so we can flame them IMO.

This must be a joke, I have the book in front of me and clearly it states extra pen dice and nothing about double str and such...anyone who thought of this has to be illiterate.

**Sanctjud**

@Kurgash:
Or they corrected/changed the print over time...

@Orkestra:
Heh, you are correct, it's also otherwise known as PEMDAS.

**JSK-Fox**

As many people are saying, the strength is doubled. So theres the answer folks. No sense arguing over it much more.