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As a few of you already know i'm trying to put together a codex for the farsight enclaves based loosely around my fanon character Shas'O Vera, and the home rule codex: Exiled cadre.

I will be posting my progress here from time to time, and if you have any idea's i would be pleased to hear them.

Ok so i was thinking about these special rules for crisis suits of the rank Shas'Vre and above, to give the player an ability to specialize he's army:

Battlesuit costumizations
As battlesuit pilots have got more comfortable with the working of their battlesuits, they begin to experiment with their battlesuits to increase their potential. This can lead to serious increases in battlefield performance, but sometimes, the extra hardware they cram into their suits can make them unstable. This practice is normally outlawed in the empire because the Ethereals want the tau of other castes to focus on their duty in the empire, which in the earth caste's case is to build the weapons, and the fire caste's to use them. In the Farsight enclaves however, the caste system doctrine is ignored, and fire warriors develop a much more practical view on their equipment.

You can only choose one costumization for each battlesuit, and only battlesuits of the Rank Shas'Vre, Shas'El or Shas'O may choose from them.

Battlesuit customizations:

Energy shroud 15pt

Team link array 20pt

extra hardpoint 15pt

Dual-axle control systems 15pt

Enhanced target lock 20pt

Over charged jet pack 15pt

Advanced shield generator 35pt

Increased vision gearing 10pt

Increased structuring 25pt

Cockpit plating 35pt

Advanced burst cannon 15pt

Team link array:
Heavy addaptions to the battlesuits communications system projects him visual displays of the battlefield, and allows him to better co-ordinate the battle.
Unless the model carrying the Team link array is in close combat, any unit on the battlefield (except a unit made up entirely of drones) may use the model's leadership, for morale check purposes, and always count as having a bonding knife.

Energy shroud:
The battlesuit carries a modified version of the shield generator, that when activated, projects an electric field around the battlesuit, that electrocutes anyone who comes to close.
Any model in base contact with a battlesuit equipped with an energy shroud, during the start of their assault phase takes an automatic hit strength 4 with armour saves allowed.

Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

Dual-axle control systems:
Modifications to the battlesuits used by exiled cadres can increase their performance just as much as a support system can. These battlesuits' pilots are constantly working to advance the suits that their lives depend on by adding new systems, adpating old ones or even rebuilding the structure. Dual-axle control systems are enhanced joints and control links in the battlesuit, using adapted multi-tracker links to increase mobility and reaction lime.
A model equipped with dual-axle control systems is granted +1 WS and +1 Initiative.

Enhanced target lock:
By adding extra adaptors & improving the programming of the hard wired target lock, it can become even better at singling out targets.
When a model equipped with an enhanced target lock fires at a team, make a morale check. If successful, you may choose what model in the group is hit, in addition to the device counting as a normal target lock.

Over charged jet pack:
As the pilots seek to increase the speed of their suits they find ways of removing their limits, like tuning a motorbike, however, they can also get over eager, and tune them to much, which occasionally leads to the jet packs going out of control.
A battlesuit with an over charged jet pack may add a d6 to their movement, but if they roll 6, then the jet pack goes out of control, and the battlesuit crashes, and takes a strength 3 hit with armour saves allowed, and cannot shoot, or make an additional jump that turn.

Advanced shield generator:
Playing with shield generators is a difficult business, and many attempts have ended up with the battlesuit, simply being unable to fire back out of the shield, however, some fire warriors has had the ability or luck, to improve the Shield generator, without any boring side effects.
An advanced shield generator grants the wearer a +3 invulnerable save, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Increased vision gearing:
Increasing the vision gearing of a battlesuit can mean the difference between life and death in a time where seeing the enemy would otherwise be your greatest concern.
Increased vision gearing allows the wearer to ignore all rules that require you to take a 2d6x3 to check if you can see your target, such as stealth suits, night fighting rules or the grey nights Shining faith special rule.

Increased structuring:
Increasing the structure of the battlesuit by filling in all the hallow spaces in the suit, and carefully welding on additional steel plates to the structure, while slightly tuning the jet pack as well gives increased protection against enemy fire, without negating the jet packs ability to fly at full speed.
A battlesuit with increased structuring has a +2 save.

Cockpit plating:
Armouring the inside of the Battlesuit, gives a second layer that needs to be penetrated from outside
before the pilot is in danger of being killed.
The cockpit plating gives the battlesuit an extra wound.

Advanced burst cannon:
by modifying the burst cannon, an increased spin can be achieved, and therefore, increased rate of fire.
An advanced burst cannon has the following profile: strength 5, AP 5, assault 4, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Please tell me, if you think there's an important system missing, or if you think some of the existing systems should be changed, or completely removed.

I like it, yet I have some questions...

Over charged jet pack:
As the pilots seek to increase the speed of their suits they find ways of removing their limits, like tuning a motorbike, however, they can also get over eager, and tune them to much, which occasionally leads to the jet packs going out of control.
A battlesuit with an over charged jet pack may add a d6 to their movement, but if they roll 6, then the jet pack goes out of control, and the battlesuit crashes, and takes a strength 3 hit with armour saves allowed, and cannot shoot, or make an additional jump that turn.

Can the battlesuit run after this?

And to the increased vision gearing, doesn't the blacksun filter do the same thing? or is that just night-fighting?

What other plans do you have? maybe a new class of battlesuit? Advancments to FW? excited to hear back from you!

Jones

I'm thinking a new tank or two, and some new weaponry for the fire warriors. I've considered a new battlesuit, just for like a few seconds, but i really haven't thought about that part yet, do you have a new battlesuit? because i am completely open for ideas.

I honestly don't remember what the blacksun filter does (im at my boarding school, and my copy of the codex is back home)

the general theme is to replace the alien races with some slightly more skilled fire warriors, and some new technologies, for the loss of some old ones.
(for example iwas thinking excluding markerlights)

Blacksun filter ignores Night fighting IIRC.

How about a battlesuit CC version?

As for your other stuff, rather than just Improving existing Tau stuff, which they would not nescasarily be able to do, you should emphasise the fact that Farsight is seperate from the Tau Empire, and add some slightly alien wargear, to give it a more mysterious feel. You could say that the extended period of non-contact with the Tau Empire has forced them to improvise with alien weaponry. They simply wouldn't be able to improve what they have.

Perhaps make the list more Close combaty to reflect Farsights philosophy, which may have been exagerated due to Isolation and the Dawn Blade (which may or may not be a chaos artefact).

1. Team link array is half useless because farsight gets his army free bonding knives on any model that can have one.

2. All these upgrades seem a bit expensive, and not very points efficient overall.

3. The grey knights shrouding thing is 3d6x6 not 2d6x3, so your wording could be a little better on the vision gearing.

Well i will certaintly be adding more close combat weapons, and abilities in the future, this is just a small extra chart of abilities that battlesuit team leaders will be able to pick for their suits.

And Farsight isn't a compulsory choice for the army, there will be standard renegade commanders as well.
I want the army codex to cover all the Farsight enclaves, and not just be a more sophisticated version of Farsights special rules, so everyone does not nercessarily carry a bonding knife.

And i know not all the rules are completely points friendly, right now im just focusing on the special rules.But thank you for your criticism, its just what i need

Draythur wrote:Team link array:
Heavy addaptions to the battlesuits communications system projects him visual displays of the battlefield, and allows him to better co-ordinate the battle.
Unless the model carrying the Team link array is in close combat, any unit on the battlefield (except a unit made up entirely of drones) may use the model's leadership, for morale check purposes, and always count as having a bonding knife.

Energy shroud:
The battlesuit carries a modified version of the shield generator, that when activated, projects an electric field around the battlesuit, that electrocutes anyone who comes to close.
Any model in base contact with a battlesuit equipped with an energy shroud, during the start of their assault phase takes an automatic hit strength 4 with armour saves allowed.

Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

So when do I take the GH! test? If its failed can I still shoot with some weapons or none at all?

Dual-axle control systems:
Modifications to the battlesuits used by exiled cadres can increase their performance just as much as a support system can. These battlesuits' pilots are constantly working to advance the suits that their lives depend on by adding new systems, adpating old ones or even rebuilding the structure. Dual-axle control systems are enhanced joints and control links in the battlesuit, using adapted multi-tracker links to increase mobility and reaction lime.
A model equipped with dual-axle control systems is granted +1 WS and +1 Initiative.

Enhanced target lock:
By adding extra adaptors & improving the programming of the hard wired target lock, it can become even better at singling out targets.
When a model equipped with an enhanced target lock fires at a team, make a morale check. If successful, you may choose what model in the group is hit, in addition to the device counting as a normal target lock.

Thats pretty powerful upgrade, as it allows you to snipe fists/specials etc with ease.

Over charged jet pack:
As the pilots seek to increase the speed of their suits they find ways of removing their limits, like tuning a motorbike, however, they can also get over eager, and tune them to much, which occasionally leads to the jet packs going out of control.
A battlesuit with an over charged jet pack may add a d6 to their movement, but if they roll 6, then the jet pack goes out of control, and the battlesuit crashes, and takes a strength 3 hit with armour saves allowed, and cannot shoot, or make an additional jump that turn.

I would make it a wound with saves allowed, because the chance of failing a save vs S3 is only 1/9

Advanced shield generator:
Playing with shield generators is a difficult business, and many attempts have ended up with the battlesuit, simply being unable to fire back out of the shield, however, some fire warriors has had the ability or luck, to improve the Shield generator, without any boring side effects.
An advanced shield generator grants the wearer a +3 invulnerable save, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Pretty sure SGens already take up a hard point. Should this take up 2 hard points?

Increased vision gearing:
Increasing the vision gearing of a battlesuit can mean the difference between life and death in a time where seeing the enemy would otherwise be your greatest concern.
Increased vision gearing allows the wearer to ignore all rules that require you to take a 2d6x3 to check if you can see your target, such as stealth suits, night fighting rules or the grey nights Shining faith special rule.

Unessasary - BSF does this

Increased structuring:
Increasing the structure of the battlesuit by filling in all the hallow spaces in the suit, and carefully welding on additional steel plates to the structure, while slightly tuning the jet pack as well gives increased protection against enemy fire, without negating the jet packs ability to fly at full speed.
A battlesuit with increased structuring has a +2 save.

I'd just make Iridium Armour none spec issue. 2+ save & JSJ is too much IMO

Cockpit plating:
Armouring the inside of the Battlesuit, gives a second layer that needs to be penetrated from outside
before the pilot is in danger of being killed.
The cockpit plating gives the battlesuit an extra wound.

I'd change the fluff on this to be more like the one above (increased struturing) if you replace that with Iriduim Armour, as you could "kill" a suit by shooting off its jetpack or weapons systems

Advanced burst cannon:
by modifying the burst cannon, an increased spin can be achieved, and therefore, increased rate of fire.
An advanced burst cannon has the following profile: strength 5, AP 5, assault 4, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Again, a BC already takes up a hard point. Do you mean it takes up 2?

Please tell me, if you think there's an important system missing, or if you think some of the existing systems should be changed, or completely removed.

Black Antelope wrote:

Draythur wrote:Team link array:
Heavy addaptions to the battlesuits communications system projects him visual displays of the battlefield, and allows him to better co-ordinate the battle.
Unless the model carrying the Team link array is in close combat, any unit on the battlefield (except a unit made up entirely of drones) may use the model's leadership, for morale check purposes, and always count as having a bonding knife.

Energy shroud:
The battlesuit carries a modified version of the shield generator, that when activated, projects an electric field around the battlesuit, that electrocutes anyone who comes to close.
Any model in base contact with a battlesuit equipped with an energy shroud, during the start of their assault phase takes an automatic hit strength 4 with armour saves allowed.

Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

So when do I take the GH! test? If its failed can I still shoot with some weapons or none at all?

I don't have a copy of the rulebook at home, what does it say about that? Does it say the model can't shoot, or that weapon can't shoot?

Dual-axle control systems:
Modifications to the battlesuits used by exiled cadres can increase their performance just as much as a support system can. These battlesuits' pilots are constantly working to advance the suits that their lives depend on by adding new systems, adpating old ones or even rebuilding the structure. Dual-axle control systems are enhanced joints and control links in the battlesuit, using adapted multi-tracker links to increase mobility and reaction lime.
A model equipped with dual-axle control systems is granted +1 WS and +1 Initiative.

Enhanced target lock:
By adding extra adaptors & improving the programming of the hard wired target lock, it can become even better at singling out targets.
When a model equipped with an enhanced target lock fires at a team, make a morale check. If successful, you may choose what model in the group is hit, in addition to the device counting as a normal target lock.

Thats pretty powerful upgrade, as it allows you to snipe fists/specials etc with ease.

Yup, it is.

Over charged jet pack:
As the pilots seek to increase the speed of their suits they find ways of removing their limits, like tuning a motorbike, however, they can also get over eager, and tune them to much, which occasionally leads to the jet packs going out of control.
A battlesuit with an over charged jet pack may add a d6 to their movement, but if they roll 6, then the jet pack goes out of control, and the battlesuit crashes, and takes a strength 3 hit with armour saves allowed, and cannot shoot, or make an additional jump that turn.

I would make it a wound with saves allowed, because the chance of failing a save vs S3 is only 1/9

well i thougt it went without saying that it was saves allowed, but okay

Advanced shield generator:
Playing with shield generators is a difficult business, and many attempts have ended up with the battlesuit, simply being unable to fire back out of the shield, however, some fire warriors has had the ability or luck, to improve the Shield generator, without any boring side effects.
An advanced shield generator grants the wearer a +3 invulnerable save, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Pretty sure SGens already take up a hard point. Should this take up 2 hard points?

No, you miss the point. These upgrades are like wargear. Only officers can take them, and they don't take up a hardpoint unless stated.

Increased vision gearing:
Increasing the vision gearing of a battlesuit can mean the difference between life and death in a time where seeing the enemy would otherwise be your greatest concern.
Increased vision gearing allows the wearer to ignore all rules that require you to take a 2d6x3 to check if you can see your target, such as stealth suits, night fighting rules or the grey nights Shining faith special rule.

Unessasary - BSF does this

Im pretty shure the BSF only covers normal night fighting rules, and not the special ones.

Increased structuring:
Increasing the structure of the battlesuit by filling in all the hallow spaces in the suit, and carefully welding on additional steel plates to the structure, while slightly tuning the jet pack as well gives increased protection against enemy fire, without negating the jet packs ability to fly at full speed.
A battlesuit with increased structuring has a +2 save.

I'd just make Iridium Armour none spec issue. 2+ save & JSJ is too much IMO

Well these upgrades are basicly spec issue, only, thei're not restricted to one per army, and i was thinking the Farsight enclaves would be unable to choose spec issue, to represent their lack of modern technology.

Cockpit plating:
Armouring the inside of the Battlesuit, gives a second layer that needs to be penetrated from outside
before the pilot is in danger of being killed.
The cockpit plating gives the battlesuit an extra wound.

I'd change the fluff on this to be more like the one above (increased struturing) if you replace that with Iriduim Armour, as you could "kill" a suit by shooting off its jetpack or weapons systems

You'd have to be really ninja to kill a suits weapons systems, and the crisis suits have some really big jet packs that would take a gak load of fire before they malfunction, requiring something like an instant death weapon, which ignores wounds, so that should be irrelevant.

Advanced burst cannon:
by modifying the burst cannon, an increased spin can be achieved, and therefore, increased rate of fire.
An advanced burst cannon has the following profile: strength 5, AP 5, assault 4, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Again, a BC already takes up a hard point. Do you mean it takes up 2?

reffering to the abbove.

Please tell me, if you think there's an important system missing, or if you think some of the existing systems should be changed, or completely removed.

Btw thanks, its imprtant to settle these things, and i will make a point of making these more obvious in the final eddition

Draythur wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:

Draythur wrote:Team link array:
Heavy addaptions to the battlesuits communications system projects him visual displays of the battlefield, and allows him to better co-ordinate the battle.
Unless the model carrying the Team link array is in close combat, any unit on the battlefield (except a unit made up entirely of drones) may use the model's leadership, for morale check purposes, and always count as having a bonding knife.

Energy shroud:
The battlesuit carries a modified version of the shield generator, that when activated, projects an electric field around the battlesuit, that electrocutes anyone who comes to close.
Any model in base contact with a battlesuit equipped with an energy shroud, during the start of their assault phase takes an automatic hit strength 4 with armour saves allowed.

Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

So when do I take the GH! test? If its failed can I still shoot with some weapons or none at all?

I don't have a copy of the rulebook at home, what does it say about that? Does it say the model can't shoot, or that weapon can't shoot?

I dont either =P but I think its weapon - certainly tanks can shoot other weps if one Gets Hot. So you really should clarify it

Dual-axle control systems:
Modifications to the battlesuits used by exiled cadres can increase their performance just as much as a support system can. These battlesuits' pilots are constantly working to advance the suits that their lives depend on by adding new systems, adpating old ones or even rebuilding the structure. Dual-axle control systems are enhanced joints and control links in the battlesuit, using adapted multi-tracker links to increase mobility and reaction lime.
A model equipped with dual-axle control systems is granted +1 WS and +1 Initiative.

Enhanced target lock:
By adding extra adaptors & improving the programming of the hard wired target lock, it can become even better at singling out targets.
When a model equipped with an enhanced target lock fires at a team, make a morale check. If successful, you may choose what model in the group is hit, in addition to the device counting as a normal target lock.

Thats pretty powerful upgrade, as it allows you to snipe fists/specials etc with ease.

Yup, it is.

I meant I think it needs to be more points

Over charged jet pack:
As the pilots seek to increase the speed of their suits they find ways of removing their limits, like tuning a motorbike, however, they can also get over eager, and tune them to much, which occasionally leads to the jet packs going out of control.
A battlesuit with an over charged jet pack may add a d6 to their movement, but if they roll 6, then the jet pack goes out of control, and the battlesuit crashes, and takes a strength 3 hit with armour saves allowed, and cannot shoot, or make an additional jump that turn.

I would make it a wound with saves allowed, because the chance of failing a save vs S3 is only 1/9

well i thougt it went without saying that it was saves allowed, but okay

I mean it would be an automatic wound w/ saves allowed, rather than the S3 hit you have it at as the moment

Advanced shield generator:
Playing with shield generators is a difficult business, and many attempts have ended up with the battlesuit, simply being unable to fire back out of the shield, however, some fire warriors has had the ability or luck, to improve the Shield generator, without any boring side effects.
An advanced shield generator grants the wearer a +3 invulnerable save, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Pretty sure SGens already take up a hard point. Should this take up 2 hard points?

No, you miss the point. These upgrades are like wargear. Only officers can take them, and they don't take up a hardpoint unless stated.

Increased vision gearing:
Increasing the vision gearing of a battlesuit can mean the difference between life and death in a time where seeing the enemy would otherwise be your greatest concern.
Increased vision gearing allows the wearer to ignore all rules that require you to take a 2d6x3 to check if you can see your target, such as stealth suits, night fighting rules or the grey nights Shining faith special rule.

Unessasary - BSF does this

Im pretty shure the BSF only covers normal night fighting rules, and not the special ones.

If you want it to ignore ALL night fight esc rules, you need to alter the working a bit, as some of them use differnt dice rolls

Increased structuring:
Increasing the structure of the battlesuit by filling in all the hallow spaces in the suit, and carefully welding on additional steel plates to the structure, while slightly tuning the jet pack as well gives increased protection against enemy fire, without negating the jet packs ability to fly at full speed.
A battlesuit with increased structuring has a +2 save.

I'd just make Iridium Armour none spec issue. 2+ save & JSJ is too much IMO

Well these upgrades are basicly spec issue, only, thei're not restricted to one per army, and i was thinking the Farsight enclaves would be unable to choose spec issue, to represent their lack of modern technology.

So they show the lack of moden tech by being better than normal tau?
On that note, these are avaible to HQs/Team Leaders, but are not 1/army? Thats too good.

Cockpit plating:
Armouring the inside of the Battlesuit, gives a second layer that needs to be penetrated from outside
before the pilot is in danger of being killed.
The cockpit plating gives the battlesuit an extra wound.

I'd change the fluff on this to be more like the one above (increased struturing) if you replace that with Iriduim Armour, as you could "kill" a suit by shooting off its jetpack or weapons systems

You'd have to be really ninja to kill a suits weapons systems, and the crisis suits have some really big jet packs that would take a gak load of fire before they malfunction, requiring something like an instant death weapon, which ignores wounds, so that should be irrelevant.

Advanced burst cannon:
by modifying the burst cannon, an increased spin can be achieved, and therefore, increased rate of fire.
An advanced burst cannon has the following profile: strength 5, AP 5, assault 4, but takes up a hardpoint, leaving only two other weapons or support systems on your battlesuit.

Again, a BC already takes up a hard point. Do you mean it takes up 2?

reffering to the abbove.

Please tell me, if you think there's an important system missing, or if you think some of the existing systems should be changed, or completely removed.

Btw thanks, its imprtant to settle these things, and i will make a point of making these more obvious in the final eddition

At this point i think i can agree with basicly everything youre saying.

Thank you for the comments, i'll be making good use of your help in the final eddition

Blacksun filter ignores Night fighting IIRC.

It gives acute senses which lets you re-roll the result you get for night-fighting.

How about a battlesuit CC version?

I for one like this idea, deffeintly something you'd think would have been included in a rebellious Tau enclave, especially following the fluff used by Commander Far-sight's
"Dawn Blade"

Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

This is deffeintly not needed...

it seems to underpower the unit with the 'gets hot' rule added on.

Also you do not exactly need another strongpoint

if it is too add 3 weapons then that's overpowered.

And if it to add another support system that is not needed.

For example if you wanted a normal Battlesuit with 4BS firing 2 weapons a turn, and to have a shield generator that is totally legal.

Look at the rules for hard-point equipments
They do not need to be shown on the model as they are assumed to be integrated.
And you may also take as many as you want


That means I could buy a Battlesuit with:
(Weapon)
(Weapon)
Shield generator - Support Slot
Hard-point Multi-tracker - Hardpoint
Hard-point Tracking array (or whatever it is called that gives +1 bs) - Hardpoint

and then add in any more hard-point things you want.

now I have a souped up Battlesuit that not only looks sexier with his shield instead of a little targetting thingy, but is also about 3 or 4 times more useful ingame because it can actually hit things now.

thats hard wired, not hardpoint. a hardpoint is one of the three slots for weapons or support systems that each battlesuit has, and the targeting array that gives you +1bs cant be hard wired.
just saying

they all say targeting something and either way you can still totally rig out the guy without the need for another weapon/support slot (You still haven't said which it would be). You barely ever need a shield generator anyway when you're playing a battlesuit army. But that BS4 and multi-tracker are needed and that's about it. and there are about 3 other things besides that to pump them up with, most of those things already being situated on the Support list so it would be a waste not to use those hardwired.


All this list seems to be is you taking the normal Tau wargear and pumping it up.

Like the 'advanced' shield generator. Making it a 3++ instead of a 4+. There's a reason it's 4+ and that's because the Tau move quickly so they cannot hold much equipment, even on battlesuits.

Advanced burst cannon just adds another shot. Sounds more like they stuck two together...

Enhanced target-lock. There's a reason why gamesworkshop doesn't have things like this besides for the Vindicare; it's over powered beyond belief.
I just drop down infront of a command squad, pass the morale check easily, and hit your Chapter Master with 6 Plasma gun shots and 3 Fusion guns.

Increased structuring. Breaking up the fact again that Tau are supposed to be quick and lightly armored. Also just taking the Iridium armor and overpowering it because you can give it to anybody.

and it's just the same with everything else you put out there.

Basically you just trying to overpower a list, like what 90% of the people who post 'fan made codexes' try to do.

Draythur wrote:
Extra hardpoint:
Added computer systems and wiring allow the suit to field an extra weapons, or support system, but causes the battlesuit pilots display screens to be overloaded, making the reaction lime slower, and can sometimes cause the battlesuit to go beyond its limits, causing overheating, which can be of danger to the pilots.
The costumization allows you to select 4 weapons/support systems for this particular battlesuit, instead of the normal 3, but reduces the Initiative of the given model to 1, and gives the suits weapons the “gets hot” special rule (however you will only have to take this test once, regardless of how many weapons it fires).

I would like you to read this through a few times, and then ask yourself wether i did specify it or not.

And besides of that it seems you have nothing productive to say, in which case i'd like you to cease posting here, as i'm looking for critical responses, and not outright hating.

I think it's a little sad for you that you don't have anything better to do than to attack people who try to be creative, but appart from that i have nothing to add.

Ok here's the units entry, and i will be adding the armoury within a week or so.

HQ

Tau commander Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'O : 85 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 10 +3
Shas'El : 60 4 4 5 4 3 4 3 10 +3

Description: Commanders of Yr'Ka are supremely skilled leaders in the ways of war. They are fearsome warriors, driving their cadre to victory in their massive battlesuits. A renegade Shas'El is an senior officer, and a seasoned veteran of years of warfare,commanding a cadre of he's loyal fire warriors. A Shas'O is an even more powerful warrior, commanding whole armies, with decades of experience in the knowledge of destroying the enemies of the Farsight enclaves. They will have fought with their battlesuit for years, and learned its use to perfection, just like the armies they command. Truly an awesome menace to be facing on the field of battle.

Unit type: jump infantry (jet pack)

Equipment: The commander is equipped with an XV8 crisis battlesuit, and must select three battlesuit weapons, or support systems. He may also select one battlesuit customization, and may select any number of items from the battlesuit wargear list.

Special rules:
Independent character: unless accompanied by a bodyguard, the commander is an independent character. See the warhammer 40.000 rulebook for more details.

Bodyguard: The commander may be accompanied by a bodyguard. See the separate entry below. The commander and he's bodyguard count as a single HQ choice.

XV8 battlesuit: The commanders battlesuit grants him the acute senses, and deep strike special rules. See the warhammer 40.000 rulebook, or the armoury for more details.


Bodyguard Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Vre : 40 4 4 5 4 2 3 3 9 +3

Description: The bodyguards of a commander of Yr'Ka will usually have fought side by side with their commander through decades, and will probably be long term friends, or relatives, who have most certainly gone through the tali'serra ritual, and become bonded. These are fierce warriors, unmatched in skill and tenacity in their duty to protect their commander at all costs. A duty that they are more than capable of fulfilling in their massive XV8 battlesuits.

Team: a team consists of 1-2 Shas'Vre, there can be only 0-1 bodyguards pr. Commander, and they may not be taken separately.

Unit type: Jump infantry (jet pack)

Equipment: Each Shas'Vre is equipped with a XV8 crisis battlesuit, and must select three battlesuit weapons or support systems. They may also pick one battlesuit customization, and any number of items from the battlesuit wargear list.

Special rules:
XV8 battlesuit: The bodyguards battlesuits grant them the acute senses, and deep strike special rules. See the warhammer 40.000 rulebook, or the armoury for more details.
ELITES

Crisis team Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Ui : 30 3 4 5 4 2 3 2 8 +3
Shas'Vre : +15 4 4 5 4 2 3 3 9 +3

Description: In the empire, as in the Farsight enclaves, a fire warrior's ever lasting dream is to be elevated to the rank of Shas'Ui and earn the right to wear a crisis battlesuit in battle. These are the elite warriors of the cadre, ready to strike at their enemies with a speed and ferocity rarely seen.
However, these renegade pilots have been in a state of constant fighting since the birth of Yr'Ka, and to achieve the rank of Shas'Ui is a whole other story altogether than in the tau empire. As a result, these soldiers are true elites, who take pride in their knowledge of killing. Equipped with the ever reliable XV8 battlesuits, these men are armed to the teeth, and ready to strike against any foes who might stand against the armies of Yr'Ka.

Team: A team consists of 1-3 Shas'Ui

Unit type: Jump infantry (jet pack)

Equipment: Each team member is equiped with an XV8 battlesuit, and must select weapons, or support systems.

Character: One Shas'Ui per team may be designated as team leader, at +5 points, and and thereby gains access to the battlesuit wargear list. He may also be upgraded to the rank of Shas'Vre for an additional 10 points.

Special rules:
XV8 Battlesuit: The team members battlesuits grant them the acute senses, and eep strike special rules. See the warhammer 40.000 rulebook, or the armoury for more details.























Stealth team Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Ui : 35 3 4 5 4 2 3 2 8 +3
Shas'Vre : +15 4 4 5 4 2 3 3 9 +3

Description: Were the XV8 are the centre point of a commanders strategy, going in with all guns blazing to blast the enemies of the cadre, the XV25 Stealth suits are infiltrators, who strike from the dark before vanishing again. These are the covert ops of the cadre, intended to lay ambushes, and infiltrate enemy territory, before springing the trap, and leaving again before the enemy can hit back.

Team: A team consists of 3-6 Shas'Ui

Unit type: Jump infantry (jet pack)

Equipment: Each team member is equipped with a burst cannon and Stealth armour. Each team member may select one battlesuit support sytem, if this option is taken, all members must do so, though each may select a different system.

Options: One in three models (including a team leader or Shas'Vre) may replace their burst cannon with a fusion blaster at a cost of 2 pts per model.

Character: One Shas'Ui per team may be designated as a team leader at +5 points, and thereby gains access to the battlesuit wargear list. He may then be upgraded to Shas'Vre for an additional 10 points.

Special rules:

Infiltrate: Any stealth teams may deploy using the infiltrators special rule in missions that allow it.

Stealth armour: The team members battlesuits grant them the acute senses, and deep strike special rules. See the warhammer 40.000 rulebook, or the armoury for more details. In addition, their battlesuits carry an integrated stealth field generator. See the armoury for details.




















Fire warrior veterans Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Ui : 22 3 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 +4
Shas'Vre : +10 4 4 3 3 1 3 3 9 +4

Description:A fire warrior in the tau empire aspires to become a battlesuit pilot. In exiled cadres this isn't always the case. There may not be space in the ranks for a shas'ui to have a new battlesuit, he may be considered unworthy or he may simply wish to stay as a foot soldier. Once he reaches the rank of shas'ui and if he does not ascend to a battlesuit he may either stay with his team as its leader, or move into a veteran team, should his commander think his suitable. These veteran teams are groups or hardened fighters who have spend decades away from the empire, using their skills to survive in a galaxy where even their own kin would readily kill them on sight.

Unit Type: Infantry

Equipmentulse Rifle

Options: Any model may replace his Pulse rifle with a pulse carbine at no cost. Up to two models may replace their pulse rifles for infantry burst cannons at an additional 12 points per model. Any number of fire warriors may purchase a Shas'ti catana for +10 points per model.

Character: One Fire Warrior Veteran Shas'ui may be upgraded to a Shas'vre at +15 points and may select items from the infantry wargear list. He always carries a Shas'ti catana.

Transport: If it numbers 12 models or less (including drones), the team may be mounted in a Devilfish transport.




TROOPS

Fire warrior cadets Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Saal : 8 2 2 2 3 1 2 1 6 +4
Shas'Ui : 22 3 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 +4

Description: In the empire, fire warrior cadets never come close to a battlefield before they reach the rank of Shas'la. In the Farsight Enclaves however, this is not always the case. Shortage of recruits, desperate times, or corporal punishments by their superiors, can all be reasons for these unpolished soldiers to reach the battlefield before time. More commonly though, they will simply be called upon by their commanders, when they believe the resistance is so futile, that it will be a lesson, rather than a battle... like hunting down escaped prisoners, fighting extremely outnumbered & out gunned enemies or defending trenches and bunkers against a ”charge of the light brigade”.

Team: a Fire warrior cadet team consists of 5-11 fire warrior cadets, and a shas'ui team leader with full access to the infantry wargear list.

Equipment: All fire warrior shas'saals carry a pulse rifle, which may be exchanged with a pulse carbine at no cost, and up to two models may exchange their pulse rifles for an infantry burst cannon at 12pt per model.


Fire warriors Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'La : 12 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 +4
Shas'Ui : +10 3 4 3 3 1 3 1 8 +4

Description: The fire warriors are the backbone of any army of the Farsight enclaves, providing ever relianble and deadly firepower against their enemies. The fire warriors of Yr'Ka are more skilled than their imperial counterparts, however, their new lifestyle tends to grant them lesser levels of support, and as such, they will need their extra skills, as well as good commanders to see them through the day. None the less, these warriors are determined to fight to the death for the Farsight enclaves, and will be of excellent use on the battlefield if used well.

Team: The team cosists of 6-12 fire warriors.

Unit type: Infantry

Equipment: Pulse rifle

Options: Any number of fire warriors may exchange their pulse rifles for pulse carbines at no extra cost, and up to two models may exchange their pulse rifles for infantry burst cannons at 12 points per model.

Character: One fire warrior Shas'La may be upgraded to a Shas'Ui team leader at +10 points, and thereby gains access to the infantry wargear list.

Transport: If it numbers 12 models or less (including drones), the team may be mounted in a Devilfish transport.


























Devilfish transport
Devilfish points Front Side Rear BS
80 12 11 10 3

Description: Although fire warriors of Yr'Ka are generally less of a mobile force than their loyalist counterparts, many cadre's still feature the ever reliable Devilfish Transports, bringing their passengers to the front in the safe confinements of these powerfull transports. Each devilfish carries a broad array of weapons systems, and can put up their fair share against many foes, but unlike their loyalist counterparts, the crews of these vessels are not picky with what weapons systems they attach to their vehicles, and so, Devilfish transports from the armies of Yr'Ka can be seen with a myriad of weapons attached to them.

Type: Tank, skimmer

Crew: Yr'Ka fire caste pilots

Unit type: Vehicle

Weapons: Burst cannon and a pair of gun drones. It is also equipped with landing gear.

Options: The devilfish may be equipped with any of the upgrades from the vehicle armoury. The burst cannon may be replaced with a fusion blaster at +2 points, and the gun drones may be replaced by either two burst cannons at no points cost, or a smart missile system for +10 points. Note that the burst cannons are not twin linked, and may fire separately.

Transport: The devilfish may carry up to twelve models. It may not carry any models with XV battlesuits.

Access points: There are access hatches on the rear, and on each side of the hull. Models embarking, or disembarking must be within 2” of one of them.

Fire points: There are no fire points. The devilfish is a pressurised environment, which means that passengers may not fire while aboard the vehicle.



















FAST ATTACK

Pirahna squad points Front Side Rear BS
Pirahna 60 11 10 10 3

Description: In the armies of Yr'Ka, pirahna skimmers are used for recon missions, as well as hit and run, because of their excellent speed and “hit and run” potential, pinning the enemy in place while the rest of the army deploys to their firing positions. Their pilots are chosen for their quick reaction time, and they value speed above all else. Like the devilfish pilots, the pilots of these craft have no obligations against fitting their vehicles with controversial weapons systems, and so, their crafts can often be seen with a much broader selection of weapons all together.

Type: Skimmer, fast, open topped.

Team: a pirahna team consists of between 1 and 5 pirahnas.

Unit type: Vehicle

Weapons: Each pirahna is armed with a hull-mounted burst cannon, and a pair of gun drones.

Options: The hull mounted burst cannon may be replaced with a fusion blaster at +5 points, and the gun drones may be replaced with either a pair of burst cannons at +10 points, or a smart missile system for +20 points. It may take the following vehicle upgrades: Sensor spines, targeting array, blacksun filter, flechette discharger, decoy launchers, disruption pod or target lock. In addition, the crew may be upgraded to veteran status, giving them a +1 BS for an additional 10 points cost.

Hunter team Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'La : 25 3 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 +4
Shas'Ui : 35 3 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 +4

Description: As the fire warriors of Yr'Ka have left the empire and now provide their own training and equipment, this shapes their pathfinders into a totally different type of soldiers altogether. Where Tau pathfinders are calm, intelligent reconnaissance experts, hunters are brutal, heartless killers. They range ahead of the main force, acting as scouts, border guards and special operatives. They often act in support of infiltrated stealth teams using their rail rifles to pin the enemy in place and systematically destroy them. They are the cold-hearted snipers of an exiled cadre, a life of segregation and hatred turning once bright young soldiers into bitter murderers.

Team: A team consists of 4-8 Shas'la

Unit Type: Infantry

Equipment: Rail Rifle and a Target Lock

Character: One model may be upgraded to a Shas'ui team leader for +10 points and may select items from the infantry wargear list.

Special rules:
Scouts: Hunters are scouts; see the universal special rules section in the Warhammer 40.000 rulebook.


HEAVY SUPPORT

Hammerhead gunship Points Front Side Rear BS
Hammerhead 90 13 12 10 3[4]

Description: The most fearsome weapons in the armies of Yr'Ka is its armoured brigades of Hammerhead gunships. These powerful battle tanks can destroy the most powerful targets with ease, and many foes of the Farsight enclaves have had to learn respect for this powerful instrument of destruction the hard way. In addition, the extra experience of these crewmen mean that they exceed even the best of crews found amongst their enemies. A truly awesome foe to be facing on the battlefield.

Type: Tank, skimmer.

Unit type: Vehicle

Weapons: A hammerhead is equipped with a turret mounted primary weapons sytem, and a hull mounted secondary weapons sytem. It is also equipped with landing gear. It is always equipped with a targeting array (bonus already added above) at no extra cost.

The primary weapons system is either an ion cannon at +15 points, or a railgun at +50 points.

The secondary weapons system is either a pair of burst cannons at +10 points for the pair, a pair of gun drones at +20 points for the pair, or a smart missile system for +20 points. Note that the burst cannons are not twin linked and may fire separately.

Options: The hammerhead may be equipped with with any of the vehicle upgrades in the vehicle armoury. In addition, the crew may be upgraded to veteran status, giving the vehicle a +1 BS for an additional 10 points cost.

Stingray gunship Points Front Side Rear BS
Stingray 125 13 12 10 3

Description: A new type of tank developed by the earth caste of Yr'Ka to deal with large numbers of unprotected infantry. The Stingray carries a modified Flechette discharger known as a Shard cannon, that fires bundles of serrated shrapnel, tearing the foes of the farsigt enclaves to bloody ribbons, as well as three fearsome burst cannons.

Type: Tank, Skimmer

Crew: Exiled Fire Caste

Unit Type: Vehicle

Weapons: A Stingray is armed with a turret-mounted shard cannon and three burst cannons. It is always equipped with a flechette discharger at no extra points cost.

Options: The Stingray may be equipped with any of the upgrades in the vehicle armoury.



Broadside team Points WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Shas'Ui : 35 3 4 5 4 2 3 2 8 +2
Shas'Vre : +10 4 4 5 4 2 3 3 9 +2

Description: As the fire warriors of Yr'Ka have much less infantry support available to them, Broadside teams are used more extensively as dedicated infantry support, blasting away heavy units to keep the infantry safe. They carry the most powerful weapons in the armies of Yr'Ka, and so, are expected to stand against the most deadly assaults and survive intact, and are skilled in their duty of destroying dangerous threats with their massive weapons systems.

Team: a team consists of 1-3 broadside Shas'Ui

Unit type: Infantry

Equipment: Each model is

Options: Each broadside team member is equipped with a primary weapons system, and a secondary weapons system.

The primary weapons system is either a twin-linked ion cannon at +20 points, or a twin linked railgun at +40 points.

The secondary weapons system is either a twin-linked burst cannon at +10 points, a smart missile system for +20 points, or a twin linked plasma rifle at +30 points.

Character: One Shas'Ui may be designated as a team leader at +5 points, granting him access to the battlesuit wargear list. He may then be upgraded to the rank of Shas'Vre for an additional 5+5 points, and select one of the following battlesuit costumizations: Energy shroud, Team link array, Dual-axle control systems, Enhanced target lock, Increased vision gearing, Increased structuring or Cockpit plating.


Note that this may seem a little overpowered, yes, however, i've been thinking that their lacking should be in their equipment instead.
For example, these renegades will have no access to spec issue or markerlights and naturally there will be no ethereals, kroot or vespid in their army list.

I'd like your thoughts

Enhanced target-lock. There's a reason why gamesworkshop doesn't have things like this besides for the Vindicare; it's over powered beyond belief.

My thoughts exactly!

Plus, add points cost on all your units entry. Without it there is no way of judging them.

eh... i have added the points cost... it's right before the WS, if you look for it..

And maybe you're right aboutthe advanced target lock... i guess.

I ment that you should add point cost so that all have them. Pirahna and Devilfish don't have any..

HQ and Elites are fine (but as has been said, Enhanced TL is completly broken)

Troops:
*blink blink* wow you made FW worse.
You could easiliy drop 25% or more from these costs and no one would bat a lid.

Vets - kind of random for them to be good in CC, but compair them to a Tac Marines. They are +6p for -1WS, S, T, I, Sv and +1A, +6"Rg, +1Gun Strengh.

I would say:

FW squad -
'la should be 10 points (I belive normal FW will only be about 8ppm when they redo the 'dex, unless they improve them)

FW Vets-
'ui should be 15 points (+1 BS, Ld, A)

FW Cadets-
'saal should be 7 points (-1BS, S, WS, I, Ld)

I still hold that heavy weapons should not be carried by FW, but by HW drones, but thats a matter of personal prefernce.
What does a Catana do?
Where are the grenade options?
Are PRifles/PCarbines staying with the same statline?

How much does the DFish and its weapon upgrades cost?

I'd give Hunters Inflitrate as well as Scout

BS5 Railheads are a bad idea, especily if the only other BS5 model in the army is the Shas'O - just dump the Targeting Array and say the crew are already Vets

What are the stats for the Shard Cannon?

Ha, your BSides almost gave a heart attack before I saw you had to buy the TL Railguns...
The option of Ion Cannons is a rather nice idea, although I'd drop it to 15p, in line with the Hammerhead.
Why do Secondry weapon systems cost so much? You've uped the cost of a TLRG+SMS suit from 70 to 95. While +1BS is pretty good, I think you could get away with having secondry weapon upgrades at 5p for TLBC, 10p for SMS and 20p for TLPR


@the Gets Hot things - What I meant was does it preclude all weapons from firing, and does it effect the funcion of hard point wargear such as the shield generartor

Black Antelope wrote:HQ and Elites are fine (but as has been said, Enhanced TL is completly broken)

Troops:
*blink blink* wow you made FW worse.
You could easiliy drop 25% or more from these costs and no one would bat a lid.

Vets - kind of random for them to be good in CC, but compair them to a Tac Marines. They are +6p for -1WS, S, T, I, Sv and +1A, +6"Rg, +1Gun Strengh.

I would say:

FW squad -
'la should be 10 points (I belive normal FW will only be about 8ppm when they redo the 'dex, unless they improve them)

FW Vets-
'ui should be 15 points (+1 BS, Ld, A)

FW Cadets-
'saal should be 7 points (-1BS, S, WS, I, Ld)

I still hold that heavy weapons should not be carried by FW, but by HW drones, but thats a matter of personal prefernce.
"i guess that makes sense, i just thought that some people would get upset about them having more technology"

What does a Catana do?
"The catana ignores armour saves in CC"

Where are the grenade options?
"ghone. Amongst the things i'm removing from the army to justify some of the new things i will be adding in the armoury... but i was considering to give them some grenades that are actually usefull, i just don't know excactly how"

Are PRifles/PCarbines staying with the same statline?
"the pulse rifle will certaintly be the same, but i was considering to give the carbine a Assault: 2 instead, and then possibly remove the pinning, as it really doesn't make much sense that a smaller gun causes pinning, when it's not half as effective"

How much does the DFish and its weapon upgrades cost?
"i'll have changed that by now"

I'd give Hunters Inflitrate as well as Scout
"yeah, you're right"

BS5 Railheads are a bad idea, especily if the only other BS5 model in the army is the Shas'O - just dump the Targeting Array and say the crew are already Vets
"well in theory you could give all vehicles BS5 by giving them targeting array, and veteran crew, but i was considering to remove the targeting arrays as well"

What are the stats for the Shard Cannon?
"24' S:5 AP:6 heavy 1, small blast marker"

Ha, your BSides almost gave a heart attack before I saw you had to buy the TL Railguns...
The option of Ion Cannons is a rather nice idea, although I'd drop it to 15p, in line with the Hammerhead.
Why do Secondry weapon systems cost so much? You've uped the cost of a TLRG+SMS suit from 70 to 95. While +1BS is pretty good, I think you could get away with having secondry weapon upgrades at 5p for TLBC, 10p for SMS and 20p for TLPR
"yeah, it also seemed a little overworked when i posted it, but i thought, if it was too much out of place, someone like you would comment it"

@the Gets Hot things - What I meant was does it preclude all weapons from firing, and does it effect the funcion of hard point wargear such as the shield generartor
"you take one test for the battlesuit, and then, if you don't roll 1 then all firing goes on as normal, and if you fail, no weapons may shoot, and it does not have any effects on support systems"

Macok wrote:

Enhanced target-lock. There's a reason why gamesworkshop doesn't have things like this besides for the Vindicare; it's over powered beyond belief.

My thoughts exactly!

Plus, add points cost on all your units entry. Without it there is no way of judging them.

There's a marine special character that chooses wound allocation from his shooting. Make it a limited selection, one per army, and people would cry less.

agnosto wrote:

Macok wrote:

Enhanced target-lock. There's a reason why gamesworkshop doesn't have things like this besides for the Vindicare; it's over powered beyond belief.

My thoughts exactly!

Plus, add points cost on all your units entry. Without it there is no way of judging them.

There's a marine special character that chooses wound allocation from his shooting. Make it a limited selection, one per army, and people would cry less.

The thing is, Telion is T4 W2 4+, in a unit of T4 4+, and is armed with a Rending Boltgun.
The Vindicar is T4 W2 4++, on his own, armed with an AP2 Sniper.

Both are expensive, easily neutilised, and have less than 50% chance of killing a W1 target under optimum conditions.
2 S4 AP5 shots or 1 Poisoned 4+ AP2 shot isn't exactly scary.

What the OP proposes would allow a 4 BS4 TL S6 AP2 shots OR 3 BS4 S7 AP3 and 2 TL S6 AP2 shots OR 1 BS4 TL S10 AP1 and 4 S5 AP5 shots OR 5 BS4 S3 AP4 Rending and 3 TL S5 AP5 shots per turn, selecting their targets. And that can be done multiple times per army. Balanced?

Telion's 50 points, right? That's a heck of a lot cheaper than a loaded-out crisis suit.

As for balance, DE have disintegrators, eldar have star cannons, space marines have as many lightning claw or power weapon wielding maniacs as you can afford...etc. Each army has their own OP wargear or ability; some have several, blood angels I'm looking at you. Tau have railguns in a game where it's all about getting close and personal and having tons of melta anyway. So tank killing is not even that difficult a thing anymore.

My point is that it's not out of the question; you can hamstring it by making it limited issue or saying something like, "when this item is used, range for weapons is halved to show the stress on the computer targeting system".

of course that has not been posted here, but in my final version of the codex, the advanced target lock is going to cost 35pt already (more than the crisis suit itself) and, like all the battlesuit customizations, you cannot choose it for more than one squad pr. army, meaning that although it's technically not a spec. issue, you can still max have 3 pr. army (and thats going to cost just as much as a hammerhead with an ion cannon), so i wouldn't say it's that OP when you just break it down to the facts.

So is it you buy it once, and the WHOLE squad can use it, or you can buy it for each member of the team.

Even at 1 suit per army, its going to get taken EVERY time.
Allowing it on 3 suits is still crazy. Imagine 3 Helios with it. They each cause 2/3s of a S8 AP1 and 4/3s of S6 AP2 hits, all 3 shooting up different units, and removing their Sergents/Special weapons/Icon etc...

of course it's 35pt pr. model, and of course it's going to get taken every time, just like you would never see a marine army without at least one unit of terminators, or a guards amry without an insane amount of lascannons.

The point is you can't make an army without some kind of equipment that's more powerful than what good is, but that kind of equipment is also what makes the game great, because it gives you the feeling that you're better at something than your opponent, even if your opponent is better than you at something else.

That said, i agree with you that it's still OP, and might as well be dropped.

Draythur wrote:of course it's 35pt pr. model, and of course it's going to get taken every time, just like you would never see a marine army without at least one unit of terminators, or a guards amry without an insane amount of lascannons.

The point is you can't make an army without some kind of equipment that's more powerful than what good is, but that kind of equipment is also what makes the game great, because it gives you the feeling that you're better at something than your opponent, even if your opponent is better than you at something else.

That said, i agree with you that it's still OP, and might as well be dropped.

Um, only one of the 6 or so SM armies at the club I play at has termies in it regulay, and I, the only IG player, have only 3 lascannons in my 1.5kp lists.
Seroiusly, most armies have no MUST HAVES (disregarding 1+ choices, most troop choices etc which don't count). Probably the only ones I can think of is the PK nob upgrade for boyz units and wings for CSM Daemon princes.

agnosto wrote:Telion's 50 points, right? That's a heck of a lot cheaper than a loaded-out crisis suit.

As for balance, DE have disintegrators, eldar have star cannons, space marines have as many lightning claw or power weapon wielding maniacs as you can afford...etc. Each army has their own OP wargear or ability; some have several, blood angels I'm looking at you. Tau have railguns in a game where it's all about getting close and personal and having tons of melta anyway. So tank killing is not even that difficult a thing anymore.

My point is that it's not out of the question; you can hamstring it by making it limited issue or saying something like, "when this item is used, range for weapons is halved to show the stress on the computer targeting system".

You didn't get the point of Black Antelope's message. We don't think that all that shooting is unbalanced. We think that coupled with ability to pick a model from a unit with a BUTTLOAD of high str, low AP shots is unbalanced. Telion isn't so great because he has weak weapon. It is very unlikely that he'll kill even 2W model with 4+ save. He has a decent chance of killing one 1W model but that's it.
When you give that kind of ability to someone who carries so good weapons it's very unbalanced. A 35p upgrade which is practically: "I've passed my LD test. Remove that Farseer in that 10 man DireAvenger sqad."

BTW. putting star cannons as OP (or even good!) weapons is just mean

Macok wrote:You didn't get the point of Black Antelope's message. We don't think that all that shooting is unbalanced. We think that coupled with ability to pick a model from a unit with a BUTTLOAD of high str, low AP shots is unbalanced. Telion isn't so great because he has weak weapon. It is very unlikely that he'll kill even 2W model with 4+ save. He has a decent chance of killing one 1W model but that's it.
When you give that kind of ability to someone who carries so good weapons it's very unbalanced. A 35p upgrade which is practically: "I've passed my LD test. Remove that Farseer in that 10 man DireAvenger sqad."

BTW. putting star cannons as OP (or even good!) weapons is just mean

All the high strength//low AP weapons have a short range, with plasma rifles(24") being an exception which would make most such units assaultable and we all know how any close combat against Tau units ends.

I agree that an entire unit would not necessarily be a good idea; however, as I mentioned before, if it's limited issue wargear (only one model per army) it wouldn't be out of the question. Either that or make it a special item attached to a special character; it fits the tau fluff of accurate fire; there's a way to make it work.

I could be wrong on the eldar weapons...which one is the insta-kill one? D-cannon?