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I'm running a 'Raining Bugs' Nid list, with broods of 20 Hormies mixed with Genestealers loaded up in spore pods and dropped on the frontline. Vanilla 'stealers are OK in my experience, but I haven't used Hormies as much. Is it worth giving them Adrenal Glands or Toxin Sacs? They're already I5 base so I was on the fence about AGs, but the extra pip of strength would be really useful for tipping assaults in my favour and will let the Hormies glance AV10. The extra initiative would help a lot against Eldar. Most Eldar infantry rely on their initiative to win CC, right? Striking before their CC specialists with so many attacks wounding on a 3+ gives a massive advantage to my Hormies and means I would MEQs on a 4+.

Not so sure about Toxin Sacs. Sure I always wound on a 4+, making strength redundant, but I won't have as much of an advantage against fast CC units. Being able to drag down MCs and high toughness characters easily is nice, but there aren't many MC-spamming armies.

Oh, and is it worth upgrading my spore pods with additional weapons at all?

I think the Toxin Sacs are more important than the Adrenal Glands, especially if you're going to be coming out of spore pods (which makes you vulnerable to being charged the turn you get out). The faster CC units can try to deal with your Genestealers, and the Hormies are already I5 so they should be going first or simultaneously against almost everything. I'd be more concerned with making sure you can wound things as easily as possible and the Toxin Sacs are better for that in any circumstance in which you aren't charging.

Toxin Sacs are amazing. Toxin sacs work wonders, they are the sole reason I lost Canis Wolfborn to a huge squad of hormies. Check out the batrep below to see what I am talking about. disdainful knows the new nid codex pretty well.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/285325.page

Give them both upgrades, very expensive but worth it.
Str. 4 on the charge with poison!!!
Hit Marines on 4+ (re-roll ones)
Wound on 4+ (re-roll faild to wounds)
With Str.4 you can glance most tanks.
With poison you can bring down MCs.
All purpose killers with Drop Pod.

I'm on the fence about it. Toxin sacs give them uber powers in cc against anything not in a vehicle, but adrenal glands really help if your opponent is completely meched up.

I would try to mix it up so you have some redundancy. maybe 4 broods; 2 with adrenal, 2 with toxin.

Darth Balls wrote:Give them both upgrades, very expensive but worth it.
Str. 4 on the charge with poison!!!
Hit Marines on 4+ (re-roll ones)
Wound on 4+ (re-roll faild to wounds)
With Str.4 you can glance most tanks.
With poison you can bring down MCs.
All purpose killers with Drop Pod.

They're like 10 points each at that point. For me, that is just too many points for Gants. Sure they become rather nasty in CC with both upgrades, but you're thrwing lots of points into things that aren't hard for your opponent to make you pick up off the table.

Most people run hormies with TS or TS and AG. I think it depends on whether you want the ability to glance AV 10 or not. The re-roll to wound is nice, but probably not worth a 20% point increase by itself.

The other thing to be careful of if you spore pod hormies/stealers in is that they cannot move/assault the turn they arrive so they are likely to get shot to pieces before you get to do anything with them. So you probably want them cheap.

Added to the fact they cant take grenades so if the enemy squads just run into cover you are going to lose huge numbers of models before you even get to hit them back.

I wouldnt pod in hormies or stealers personally, unless you are going to pod in a TON of them (4+) to provide target saturation. Also think about podding in a Fex at the same time and DSing a Trygon to cause mayhem.

Unsupported spores will just get murdered unless there is a Fex inside with dakka dakka.

Regarding mycetic spore weaponry, I've found the twin-linked Deathspitter to be worthwhile:

* Twin-linked BS2 is a lot better than just BS2
* 3 shots means you should hit with 1 or 2
* Str 5 is going to hurt -- if you dropped the spore behind a vehicle, this and the Str 6 tentacles give you a reasonable chance against rear armour
* The extra range over the basic tentacles means your opponent can't so easily just move away & ignore your spore -- he has to think about devoting a few shots to killing it

Proto11 wrote:Most people run hormies with TS or TS and AG. I think it depends on whether you want the ability to glance AV 10 or not. The re-roll to wound is nice, but probably not worth a 20% point increase by itself.

The other thing to be careful of if you spore pod hormies/stealers in is that they cannot move/assault the turn they arrive so they are likely to get shot to pieces before you get to do anything with them. So you probably want them cheap.

Added to the fact they cant take grenades so if the enemy squads just run into cover you are going to lose huge numbers of models before you even get to hit them back.

I wouldnt pod in hormies or stealers personally, unless you are going to pod in a TON of them (4+) to provide target saturation. Also think about podding in a Fex at the same time and DSing a Trygon to cause mayhem.

Unsupported spores will just get murdered unless there is a Fex inside with dakka dakka.

So I should have my Hormies footslogging between cover or outflanking then? Genestealers are obviously at their best when they infiltrate because of low numbers and poor armour saves.

Obviously, Hormies and Stealers won't be my only CC units. I'll probably take a sizable Warrior squad and a Prime in larger games. Not sure about 'Fexes.

Someone suggested I take a Termagant squad and a Tervigon to quickly generate objective-grabbers and distractions. That would be great IMO, as I'd have both my HQ slots free to take the Swarmlord and a Prime.

Swarmlord needs guards to live, and the cost of that would seriously reduce your Horm/Stealer count, a dakkarant however could allow you to outflank some hormies and help bring in reserves, so outflanking those plus some stealers whyle the rest DS could leave the enemy badly surrounded. Plus the saved points can be used to up your bodycount or to bring some Yamgarls along.

Hormies usually do the run between cover and/or hide behind termagaunts for as long as possible. You can only only outflank 1 unit if you upgrade the HT appropriately and your hormies might find themselves out of synapse.

Tervigons can also outflank and score themselves or spawn termagaunts who score, forcing the opponent to deal with them or surrender an objective.

Dont forget stealers can outflank as well if they wish. Infiltrate can sometimes get stealers pasted if they end up too far ahead unsupported.

The trick is target saturation. You run up with hormies from deployment and when halfway there, your stealers start outflanking at the same time. Now your opponent has to split fire and probably wont wipe both hormies and stealers, or focus fire 1 and take a charge from the other threat. Infiltrate sometimes leads to a waves approach, which is bad as it simplifies target priority for the enemy.

Swarmlords are an ungodly number of points. Granted it will probably kill anything it sneezes at but after the guard (and you will need guard), its a huge chunk of points. I would steer clear below like 2250 or so...

Uhm the hormies failing sinapse is no big deal with IB feed they run right where the enemies, and presumably your sinapse creatures, are.

In my experience, Toxin Sacs are the best.


I'm suprised you don't run Genestealers with Toxin Sacs. The reroll to wound, makes it invaluable, in my experience, since that's a better chance to rend, even!

Failing synapse is less of a deal than before, but it means you might end up charging a unit in cover instead of the unit you actually wanted to assault.

Toxin is pretty standard on stealers.

Toxin Sacs on Hormagaunts are good vs Everyone. Adrenal Glands are good vs Eldar and OK vs Tanks with Rear Armor 10. Mine are modeled only with Toxin Sacs, though I occasionally count them as having Adrenal Glands when I have excess points.

Outflanking Tervigons is probably not a good idea, as they can't spawn the turn they come on, so you leave them all alone, unsupported, on your opponent's side of the table. You might as well tie a bow on it.

I think `Stealers would be better off Out Flanking rather than Infiltrating, as you will almost Never be able to get a first turn charge Infiltrating, so they're left hanging.

A good thing to add to help swarms of `Nids are Venomthropes. Abundance of Cover Saves and defenses against charges.

Yeah, I've been using hormaguants simply with toxin sacs and they work wonders. Furious charge is kinda ridiculous on them especially when it makes them cost so much more. If you wanna take both adrenal glands and toxin sacs on something either go tervigon with termaguants or gargoyles with both.

gargoyles with both are ridiculously hilarious You do the math and they kill a lot (i know its math hammer, but still!)

I have never used genestealers with toxin sacs mainly because the few times ive used genestealers so far this codex the enemy freaks and opens all their weak arms fire on them and kill them....ok the one time I used them was when I used a drop pod/outflank list against a reserves autuarch eldar list...which went second so ALL my stuff was out and he just shot it with bladestorm dire avengers...all of them died....i felt very sad...:(