Zain60 wrote:Good luck, It seems you disagree with much of the standard sentiment about Orks. If that's the case, then just prove everyone wrong about 'hybrid' speed lists. If you can't, then at least you tested your hypothesis that slow+run and fast+assault mesh together.
Not sure that that's really useful. I bet money that I could put together a terrible ork list and go to a local tournament and still win it, because of generalship. When folks start showing up to
GTs with hybrid ork lists that aren't themed and sweeping the events, I'll back down about thematic ork play.
In the meantime, copying and pasting something I wrote elsewhere for the
OP to help steer him towards theming a list:
I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
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1. Playing Warhammer
40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer
40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer
40k and losing is less fun.
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Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of
40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.
If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.
******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in
40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.
In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in
40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.
This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.
That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:
Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.
All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.
Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than
IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.
To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.
40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.
Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.
Are you a F.A.G?
*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.
If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all
40k.
Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.
On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:
Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.
Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.
Here's a quick take on those various lists. Please remember something important: Every list needs to be tailored for point allocations. What I'm putting down here is an "optimized" list where you get the maximum ability from it, so if you're playing a 1,000 point gunline, three full squads of Lootas + supporting units and troop choices isn't really what you're going to play. You'll have to tweak to match your needs.
Green Tide:
Green tide is actually an apocalypse battle formation, but is a common name for a foot-slogging ork army list. It consists of mobs of 30 shoota boys, a nob with a powerklaw, and either a unit of gretchin or a unit of boyz or 'Ard Boyz (maybe even with Mad Dok) screened across the front to give the rest of the army a 4+ cover save as they advance up the board.
Mechanized Assault:
12 slugga boyz+Nob/
PK stacked into trukks, perhaps some battlewagons in the mix, covered by a Big Mek with a
KFF...an elite unit or two (kommandos, lootas, burnas) tacked into the mix depending on your personal playstyle - they get into close combat as fast as orkishly possible; with Ghazghkull leading the mix, that's usually turn2.
Mechanized Shooting:
Instead of slugga boys, you have shoota boys, preferably in battlewagons, with a
KFF screening them, rolling around the battlefield pouring firepower into enemy units. Alternatively, (and one of my favorite setups) this is 3 Loota squads inside battlewagons sitting on the back table edge, Big mek with
KFF in the middle one in a trident formation \|/ to present front armor across the battlefield, surrounded by a unit of gretchin to prevent assaults on rear armor.
Ork Gunline:
Three squads of Lootas form the backbone of this, either sitting in cover or with a screening unit to give them a 4+ cover save, heavy support of big guns or some dreads/kans to provide long range firepower, with the obligatory shoota boy squads.
Kan wall:
One of the current meta-game favorites: Three squads of three killa-kans, protected by a
KFF mek (or two) marching up the field screening mobs of shoota boys behind them.
Dreadz of Fury:
Three DeffDreads for Heavy Support + 2 Deff Dreads for troop choices, with a
KFF mek screening them for a 4+ cover save, set for either long ranged fire support or close ranged pwnage; I prefer the STR10
DCCWs.
Kult of Speed:
Straight out of your codex! Boyz in trukks, mechanized element + Stormboyz. Ponder this for a moment: 6 trukks full of boyz screened by a Mek with a
KFF, in turn screening 3 units of Stormboyz who can move as fast as the trukks moving flat out...that's a lot of fast moving destruction.
Outflanking Goodness:
Kommandos as elites and Deffkoptas as fast attack, as many of each as you can fit in, often with Deffkoptas equipped differently for wound allocation spread outflanking (unless you get turn1 and put your deffkoptas out for a turn1 turbo-boost).
Rebel Grotz:
Instead of six units of boyz, you get.....gretchin! Bwah ha ha. Not particularly scary in themselves, but using covering units or terrain, able to go to ground for a 3+ cover save, making them incredibly difficult to remove from an objective, especially with other gretchin (inside killa-kans) are krumping around the battlefield.
Nob Bikers:
Two warbosses + 20 nobs = 2HQ + 2Troops. 22 models = 1750. Diversified wargear and weaponry let you spread wounds around instead of removing models, and the unit is incredibly tough, has the ability to get anywhere fast, and kill anything fast.
Super Units:
Similar to Nob bikers in having an army with a low model count: Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz; a couple units of Meganobs, or my personal preference, units of regular nobs with diversified wargear for wound allocation magic - in vehicles!
Orky Burnas:
Start with three units of burna boys. Put them in battlewagons if you like. Mek with a
KFF to screen if you do, and you have an army of combination templates / power weapons. Alternatively, a warboss makes nobs a troops choice, and you can give them all kombi-skorchas for some real carnage.
Battlewagon Spam:
Did you know that you can field 8 Battlewagons in a single army list? That's right...eight battlewagons. Three Heavy Support, Three dedicated transports for elite unit nobs, and two warbosses making two units of nobs troop choices so that you can take two more battlewagons. I think any time you have vehicles, you should have a
KFF floating around, so I wouldn't advocate going for 8....but you can do a lot of things with a list of Battlewagons.
.
Warboss Lemmy's Speed Freaks: 1730pts painted
+ 
Skullbearers: 750pts painted
