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Friend of mine has a Lord Commisar with a camo cloak that thinks it gives +1 cover saves (grants USR) to the unit he joins - IE, Ogryns.

I say page 48 says the unit doesn't get his special rules. We need a judge. =p

There was a long thread about this a while back, and the outcome was that you are both right.

The ogryns indeed do not get the stealth special rule, since it cannot be given by the IC to his unit.

However, the stealth rule isnt lost by the IC since its not marked with an *, so the commisar still has stealth.

And....since he still has stealth his unit has a +1 cover save since GW was sloppy and said that the unit gets the improved save. So even tho the ogryn dont get stealth, their unit gets +1 cover.



Sliggoth

Doesn't it say somewhere that you can't have a 1+ cover save? or am I wrong?

Oops sorry read the thread wrong my mistake.

Sliggoth wrote: So even tho the ogryn dont get stealth, their unit gets +1 cover.

What about on page 48 where it says that ICs joining a unit don't confer their rules?

The IC has stealth because of a cloak he's wearing - but joining a unit doesn't grant them stealth too.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Sliggoth wrote: So even tho the ogryn dont get stealth, their unit gets +1 cover.

What about on page 48 where it says that ICs joining a unit don't confer their rules?

The IC has stealth because of a cloak he's wearing - but joining a unit doesn't grant them stealth too.

Which doesn't matter, as the stealth USR states that the 'All of the unit's cover saves are improved by +1' and the IC still has the rule.
Noone else in the unit has to have it for it to work for everyone.

Gorkamorka wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Sliggoth wrote: So even tho the ogryn dont get stealth, their unit gets +1 cover.

What about on page 48 where it says that ICs joining a unit don't confer their rules?

The IC has stealth because of a cloak he's wearing - but joining a unit doesn't grant them stealth too.

Which doesn't matter, as the stealth USR states that the 'All of the unit's cover saves are improved by +1' and the IC still has the rule.
Noone else in the unit has to have it for it to work for everyone.

The unit gets +1 to its cover saves if the unit has the stealth special rule.

A unit that the commissar attaches itself to does *NOT* have the stealth special rule. Nor does the Commissar's cloak extend its abilities to the unit; instead you're instructed on page 48 to specifically not grant those abilities to the unit that the IC joins.

So how is it that the ogryns are getting +1 cover when the unit does not have stealth?

No, you're specifically told not to give the Special Rule to the unit. you are NOT giving the special rule to the unit, the special rule that the IC has states the entire unit benefits from +1 cover save, and does not require them to have the rule themselves.

Indeed. The Commissar has Stealth. Stealth says "The units cover saves are improved by +1.

Therefore, ALL the units cover saves are improved, whether they have the rule or not. Does it make "Sense"? No, but the rules are cut and dry.

Hmm...I agree RAW its pretty clear, and from a RAI argument Ogryns need all the help they can get to become worthwhile.