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So every enemy model that attacks the venomthrope squad or any friendly unit within 6" of it takes a dangerous terrain test... Does this mean every model in the squad or every model that is going in base to base or within 2"? The wording is "every model that assaults". By default that would mean the entire squad as the rulebook stipulates every model must get into base to base if possible. Am I on track with this?

You are correct.

BRB, Page 36 - "Assaulting Through Cover"

"If...any model in an assaulting unit will have to go through difficult or dangerous terrain as part of its assault move, the unit must make take the relevant terrain test before moving."

Book says the unit takes the test, not the models in it

Yes that is how it's written.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Van: Brb pg14 "Roll a D6 for every" might help your understanding.

ChrisCP wrote:Yes that is how it's written.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Van: Brb pg14 "Roll a D6 for every" might help your understanding.

Awesome, So

Step 1 Player A Declares assault into Venomthrope unit.
Step 2 Player A Rolls distance that he can assault
Step 3 Player A rolls enough assaulting distance, every model that goes into the dangerous terrain (should be all of them due to the 6 inches out of the effect) rolls for a wound.
Step 4 Assault happens as normal (moving models, ect)


Or

Step 1 Player A Declares assault into Venomthrope unit.
Step 2 Player A Rolls distance that he can assault
Step 3 Player A does not roll enough distance to assault.
Step 4 - Nothing happens, no Dangerous terrain tests at all (as no movement happened)

Sound about right?

It's not models that 'go into' it it's ones that assault a unit - 'not sure' if their moving through difficult terrain however - check the codex and see how it's phrased

ChrisCP wrote:It's not models that 'go into' it it's ones that assault a unit - 'not sure' if their moving through difficult terrain however - check the codex and see how it's phrased

yeah, sorry, that's poor wording on my part,

BRB says any model that has entered, left or moved through Dangerous terrain

The spore cloud only effects friendly units until the assault is made it's making one take the test, not creating something that will make one take the test.

Well hey hey I learned thing or two today!

So wait... if I'm reading this correctly, every individual model must take a dangerous terrain check if they are assaulting a model near the Venomthrope?

Just broke out the codex and that's what it appears as at least.

Yes, that is exactly what happens, and is why they are almost mandatory in some builds.

I'm not too sure about that nos ... mabye if they werent an elite choice, but anyone who drops hive guard/ podding zoeys for venomthropes (LOL) is pretty odd ...

kill dem stunties wrote:I'm not too sure about that nos ... mabye if they werent an elite choice, but anyone who drops hive guard/ podding zoeys for venomthropes (LOL) is pretty odd ...

take a group of 3, put them in between your 2 massive Hormagaunt squads...

kill dem stunties wrote:I'm not too sure about that nos ... mabye if they werent an elite choice, but anyone who drops hive guard/ podding zoeys for venomthropes (LOL) is pretty odd ...

In SOME builds. If you're going horde Termagaunt / Tevigon or Hormagaunt then mobile 5+ cover is insanely good.

On paper, they seem like they would be amazingly good against pretty much ANY cc oriented army.

On paper they're good, but they're an elites slot in an army that has 2 choices for elites (hive guard and zoeys), mabye deathleaper if youre local group is eldar/psyker heavy and you like list tailoring.

why give them a 5+ cover when you can just give em an 4+ fnp form the tervi and still have that elite slot? i mean yea you could do both but then you lose a a group of hive guard etc.

kill dem stunties wrote:On paper they're good, but they're an elites slot in an army that has 2 choices for elites (hive guard and zoeys), mabye deathleaper if youre local group is eldar/psyker heavy and you like list tailoring.

why give them a 5+ cover when you can just give em an 4+ fnp form the tervi and still have that elite slot? i mean yea you could do both but then you lose a a group of hive guard etc.

Because 5+ Cover works against things like Assault Cannons and Other S6+ Nastiness. It also cannot be countered by the UNGODY amount of anti Psyker in todays metagame, nor can t be fethed over a bramble patch by a Perils of The Warp or just an unlucky roll.

Also, Dangerous Terrain for the enemy if they get the charge off. Not only does that male them strike at I1, you have a fair chance of picking off a few. Remember, MODELS take the tests, not the unit, so he has to roll for his Power Fists seperatly, he cannot just roll 10 dice and say the 1 was a scrub.

I've actually debated using a Tyranid Prime with Dual Boneswords in with a group of 2 Venomthropes.

Gives lash whips, all sorts of counter-CC skills, and survivability from S8 and S9 instagibs.

The toxic miasma and dangerous terrain tests also help against hordes trying to overrun you.

FNP the unit and you have quite a hardy unit that will take some good concentrated firepower to bring down.

Now, in regard to dangerous terrain versus difficult terrain:

Under the Dangerous Terrain rules, it never says anything about passing a difficult terrain test (at least in my recollection - I don't have a BGB in front of me). Now, we can logically assume that if it is dangerous terrain, it is difficult as well - but if you look under the Dangerous Terrain heading, I don't think it says anything about difficult terrain tests. It only mentions the rolling 1's for wounds.

Is there a passage that actually links dangerous and difficult terrains?

Since the 5th edition all terrain test effect the entire unit not just the models touching/in the terrain. Also a UNIT is considered to be in assault, so every model in it must test!

Terrain can be dangerous without also being Difficult, they are not linked at all.

puma713 wrote:Now, in regard to dangerous terrain versus difficult terrain:

Under the Dangerous Terrain rules, it never says anything about passing a difficult terrain test (at least in my recollection - I don't have a BGB in front of me). Now, we can logically assume that if it is dangerous terrain, it is difficult as well - but if you look under the Dangerous Terrain heading, I don't think it says anything about difficult terrain tests. It only mentions the rolling 1's for wounds.

Is there a passage that actually links dangerous and difficult terrains?

Page 13 BRB

"Difficult terrain includes areas of rubble, jungles, woods, ruins, brush and scrub, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, hedges, fences, razor wire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water. If the terrain feature includes hazards, such as booby traps, carnivorous plants, toxic vents, erupting geysters and the like, then it may be additionally categorised as both difficult and dangerous terrain."

hamsterwheel wrote:

puma713 wrote:Now, in regard to dangerous terrain versus difficult terrain:

Under the Dangerous Terrain rules, it never says anything about passing a difficult terrain test (at least in my recollection - I don't have a BGB in front of me). Now, we can logically assume that if it is dangerous terrain, it is difficult as well - but if you look under the Dangerous Terrain heading, I don't think it says anything about difficult terrain tests. It only mentions the rolling 1's for wounds.

Is there a passage that actually links dangerous and difficult terrains?

Page 13 BRB

"Difficult terrain includes areas of rubble, jungles, woods, ruins, brush and scrub, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, hedges, fences, razor wire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water. If the terrain feature includes hazards, such as booby traps, carnivorous plants, toxic vents, erupting geysters and the like, then it may be additionally categorised as both difficult and dangerous terrain."

Thank you, Hamsterwheel, though that's not quite what I'm asking. That is taking a piece of terrain and categorizing it as both difficult and dangerous. Meaning you have to take a difficult terrain test, but then you may also have to take a dangerous terrain test.

The way the Venomthrope is worded is simply that you must make a "Dangerous Terrain test". If you turn to the rulebook under Dangerous Terrain, all it says is that they have a chance to take a wound. It doesn't say anything about taking a Difficult terrain test. What I'm asking is there a passage that makes Dangerous Terrain also Difficult, not the other way around?

Edit: here's the dilemma, either a dangerous terrain test encompasses both a difficult and dangerous terrain test, or it is only a dangerous terrain test, since it says nothing of difficult terrain under Dangerous Terrain.

Example 1.

Unit declares assault.
Unit tests for dangerous terrain, rolling a die for each model.
Unit takes saves, removes models and continues with the assault.

Example 2.

Unit declares assault.
Unit tests for difficult terrain (because dangerous terrain automatically includes difficult terrain [if so, what page number and what passage?]), then tests for dangerous terrain.
Unit takes saves, removes models and continues with the assault.

Terrain categorised just as Dangerous terrain is exactly that - Dangerous terrain.

It doesnt have to be difficult terrain as well, just often is.

I had no idea my simple question would result in so much discussion... But the entry in the codex does specifically state it's a DANGEROUS terrain test, not dangerous and difficult. Since the assaulting unit wouldn't actually be working its way into a piece of imaginary terrain, it would seem each model would need to pass a dangerous test and would go last in combat since any unit assaulting into terrain is reduced to I1. Would this be correct?

Dangerous Terrain checks when charging sucks.
Only one guy could touch it and the rest of the dudes have a chance of dying...wow. Sucks ballz...guess I'll just need more flamey goodness.

puma713 wrote:

hamsterwheel wrote:

puma713 wrote:Now, in regard to dangerous terrain versus difficult terrain:

Under the Dangerous Terrain rules, it never says anything about passing a difficult terrain test (at least in my recollection - I don't have a BGB in front of me). Now, we can logically assume that if it is dangerous terrain, it is difficult as well - but if you look under the Dangerous Terrain heading, I don't think it says anything about difficult terrain tests. It only mentions the rolling 1's for wounds.

Is there a passage that actually links dangerous and difficult terrains?

Page 13 BRB

"Difficult terrain includes areas of rubble, jungles, woods, ruins, brush and scrub, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, hedges, fences, razor wire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water. If the terrain feature includes hazards, such as booby traps, carnivorous plants, toxic vents, erupting geysters and the like, then it may be additionally categorised as both difficult and dangerous terrain."

Thank you, Hamsterwheel, though that's not quite what I'm asking. That is taking a piece of terrain and categorizing it as both difficult and dangerous. Meaning you have to take a difficult terrain test, but then you may also have to take a dangerous terrain test.

The way the Venomthrope is worded is simply that you must make a "Dangerous Terrain test". If you turn to the rulebook under Dangerous Terrain, all it says is that they have a chance to take a wound. It doesn't say anything about taking a Difficult terrain test. What I'm asking is there a passage that makes Dangerous Terrain also Difficult, not the other way around?

Edit: here's the dilemma, either a dangerous terrain test encompasses both a difficult and dangerous terrain test, or it is only a dangerous terrain test, since it says nothing of difficult terrain under Dangerous Terrain.

Example 1.

Unit declares assault.
Unit tests for dangerous terrain, rolling a die for each model.
Unit takes saves, removes models and continues with the assault.

Example 2.

Unit declares assault.
Unit tests for difficult terrain (because dangerous terrain automatically includes difficult terrain [if so, what page number and what passage?]), then tests for dangerous terrain.
Unit takes saves, removes models and continues with the assault.

I understand what you're trying to determine. You want to know whether all Dangerous Terrain counts as Difficult terrain. I won't attempt to answer your question. My personal opinion on the matter would tend to agree with nos as the two being seperate. If you're looking for evidence to support your view though, there are a few examples within the BRB.

Page 13 BRB under the heading Terrain Types

It lists Clear Terrain, Difficult Terrain, Impassable Terrain. The only mention of the word dangerous is listed under Difficult Terrain implying that all Dangerous Terrain is indeed difficult terrain.

Further down on the page lists the paragraph that I gave earlier about what can exist in difficult terrain that would classify it as dangerous terrain.

Page 14 BRB under the heading of Dangerous Terrain

The paragraph starts with the phrase "As mentioned previously, some terrain features will be dangerous to move through." The only text that mentions Dangerous Terrain previously to this section is on page 13 which are both in the section concerning Difficult Terrain and how some terrain can be both Difficult and Dangerous. There is no mention anywhere that there is any terrain that is only Dangerous and not difficult.

Anyhow, you have some argue points, its up to someone else to decide what the authors original intentions were.

Good day.

this argument about whether dangerous terrain can exist without difficult terrain is neither here nor there with regard to the rule. The Venomthrope rule states:

"non-vehicle enemy models that assaults one of these units must take a dangerous terrain test"

it's plain as day, you take a dangerous terrain test, you aren't really assaulting into dangerous terrain.

Note that a Dangerous Terrain test is sufficient to force assaulting models to strike at Initiative 1.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Note that a Dangerous Terrain test is sufficient to force assaulting models to strike at Initiative 1.

Why? That is my question. The dangerous terrain test doesn't say anything about taking a difficult terrain test. They're two different tests. Like Leadership and Morale.

And it is "here or there" because it affects whether or not something can reach them to assault. It doesn't matter about the Initiative 1 thing because they're already striking at Initiative 1 for the Venomthrope's Lash Whips. The question is more about assaulting through terrain. If they must take a dangerous terrain test, does this include a difficult terrain test? Because it doesn't say so in the rulebook.

No as they are not passing through 'terrain' it's an effect that makes one take a Dangerous Terrain test, this also means that if you're passing through Dangerous Terrain and/or Difficult as well as assaulting the Thropes you could be taking two danger for each model and one difficult for the squad =_=