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i played my first game the other day. i tried to shoot from behind a little wall taht was my cover and he said that if i did that he gets the cover save of the wall i was behind even though he was right out in the open .......is that true?

Depends on how far back you were. If you were 2 inches from the wall, they would get a cover save. YES. If you were right by the wall, and closer than 2 inches, than NO.

LittleCizur wrote:Depends on how far back you were. If you were 2 inches from the wall, they would get a cover save. YES. If you were right by the wall, and closer than 2 inches, than NO.

What? Where did this 2'' rule come from? Area terrain rules?

If the firing model cannot see all of the enemy model because the wall is partly in the way, the enemy gets a cover save (assuming both units are only 1 model). The only exception is if you are in base contact with the wall and you can see over it.

You need to read pg. 22 of the rule book.

- Firing out of area terrain


Other than that - it depends on who had LOS and who did not.
Simply being able to see your target with one guy doesnt mean the entire squad gets a free 'open' shot.

Page 22 BRB
LittleCizur is correct if you consider the wall to be a part of area terrain. On the same page it also notes that if you consider it a barrier then "Models that are in base contact with a linear piece of terrain they can see over, such as a low wall, barricade, tank trap or fence, can fire at enemies on the other side without the barrier getting in the way of their shots," but in either case he wouldn't receive a cover save.

This is for all terrain. The only thing that gives cover saves that doesn't follow the 2" or base contact rule is enemy or friendly models.

the second persons post doesnt make sense. if a unit is trying to hide behind a wall it doesnt make it harder to shoot from cover. now that 2 inch rule sounds more like something believable. and i was right up against the wall so ya no 2 inches. i think he just wanted to save his bikes from my librarian. and just so you know as a background story. that wasnt the only rule i found out he lied about thats y im wondering now. he did know i was new and we pretty much went off what he said

Bikes - if moving with 'turbo boosters', he would get a 3+ cover save.



If the guy is a cheater, and making up special rules, I suggest never playing him again. Find a trustworthy, local gaming store and play there. You'll always find cheaters, but they range in severity.

he wasnt moving he was just sitting there. had been for like 2 turns. he was saying he would get the cover save that i was behind

It's all based on true Line of Sight. If part of the unit was obscured by the wall, then yes, he got a cover save. If none of his models were obscured, then no, he shouldn't. If you couldn't see some of his unit (behind a hill, tank, etc.) - that is a different matter.

If all of your figures had LOS, and you were pancaked to the wall, I see no way he could claim a cover save, unless he saw something that we are not.

I've been known to cry foul, but I was overlooking the obvious and was wrong. Happens to the best of us.

Nightwatch wrote:This is for all terrain. The only thing that gives cover saves that doesn't follow the 2" or base contact rule is enemy or friendly models.

There is no '2 inch rule' for anything other than firing through area terrain.

All other terrain, you ignore barriers if you are in contact with them. Otherwise, they obscure LOS if they physically obscure LOS.

insaniak wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:This is for all terrain. The only thing that gives cover saves that doesn't follow the 2" or base contact rule is enemy or friendly models.

There is no '2 inch rule' for anything other than firing through area terrain.

All other terrain, you ignore barriers if you are in contact with them. Otherwise, they obscure LOS if they physically obscure LOS.

Oh?
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.
Actual units always provide a cover save though, right?

Firing between the models in an intervening unit grants cover, yes.

The answers you seek are on page 22 of the SRB

Firing out of area terrain: Models that are inside
area terrain firing out will position themselves with
good fields of vision. Therefore they may fire through
up to 2" of the area terrain they are occupying
without that terrain conferring a cover save to the
target. Remember, of course, that models still need
to see their target in order to be able to shoot at all.

Firing over a barrier: Models that are in base
contact with a linear piece of terrain they can see
over, such as a low wall, barricade, tank trap or a
fence, can fire at enemies on the other side without
the barrier getting in the way of their shots.

thanks everyone. very helpful. and ya im not playing with him again. he knew it was my first game and was just making stuff up. that last post was very helpful. not confused there thanks.

But just to clarify.... Just because you shoot out of area terrain, does not mean it provides a cover save, even if you are shooting through 6" of terrain.

You *have* to be shooting through elements of the area terrain for it to provide cover saves to someone that is not physically in the terrain. It doesn't matter if you are shooting through the terrain, or shooting out of the terrain; if it doesn't go through elements, it does not provide a cover save.

The 2" rule only says that even when shooting through elements, if shooting through less than 2", it still wont' provide a cover save.

It is an often confused point.

coredump wrote:But just to clarify.... Just because you shoot out of area terrain, does not mean it provides a cover save, even if you are shooting through 6" of terrain.

You *have* to be shooting through elements of the area terrain for it to provide cover saves to someone that is not physically in the terrain. It doesn't matter if you are shooting through the terrain, or shooting out of the terrain; if it doesn't go through elements, it does not provide a cover save.

The 2" rule only says that even when shooting through elements, if shooting through less than 2", it still wont' provide a cover save.

It is an often confused point.

P22 BRB:
Firing out of area terrain: Models that are inside
area terrain firing out will position themselves with
good fields of vision. Therefore they may fire through
up to 2" of the area terrain they are occupying
without that terrain conferring a cover save to the
target. Remember, of course, that models still need
to see their target in order to be able to shoot at all.

Seems to imply that firing out of the terrain grants a cover save, elements or not.
But I can see what you're saying now... the wording is confusing, but it appears that only the elements would apply as normal. The rule doesn't actually introduce a cover save for firing out of area terrain, it just says you can ignore 2" of it, which would presumably apply to elements or other models in the terrain, since that's the only way a target would get the save normally.
If so, I've seen a hell of a lot of people play that wrong.

hartastic wrote:thanks everyone. very helpful. and ya im not playing with him again. he knew it was my first game and was just making stuff up. that last post was very helpful. not confused there thanks.

You need to make a better effort to learn the rules before you play against people you don't trust well. Learn the rules, then play him, the victory should be satisfying