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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

Cheers guys.

I just bought the orks from the black reach set along with ten extra nobs.
My intend was to use them as parts for my bits box and maybe to turn some of them into BloodBowl players. But now I have second thoughts, and I feel tempted to put together a small warband and start playing 40k again (Used to play Spacemarines but have had a 15 year break from gaming)

Any suggestions for a balanced force based on the troops from the black reach box. I might get some more plastic boys, or even a second set of Black reach orks, and I've got a VERY old land raider that will be turned into a battlewagon, but apart from that I have no idea what to include. Since this is a side project, I'd like to keep it in the cheap with regards to models, and would like to go as far as I can with the cheap plastic figures and my bits box

   
Made in cn
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Beijing,China

AoBR is a fine way for start orks.

You could try someting like this:

HQ: Big Mek (110 Pts)
1 Big Mek
Power Klaw; Kustom Force Field;

HQ: Warboss (110 Pts)
1 Warboss
Power Klaw; Attack Squig; Cybork Body

Troops: Nobz (415 Pts)
8 Nobz
Big Choppa (x1); Power Klaw (x2); Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x2); Bosspole (x1); Waaagh! Banner (x1)
1 Painboy
1 Battlewagon @ [120] Pts
Big Shoota (x1); Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Troops: Boyz (154 Pts)
18 Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz (160 Pts)
19 Boyz
1 Boyz Nob
Power Klaw; Bosspole

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (70 Pts)
1 Deffkoptas
Buzzsaw; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (115 Pts)
2 Deffkoptas
Buzzsaw; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha (x2);

Fast Attack: Deffkoptas (115 Pts)
2 Deffkoptas
Buzzsaw; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha (x2);

Heavy support: Battlewagon (120 Pts)
1 Battlewagon
Big Shoota (x1); Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy support: Battlewagon (120 Pts)
1 Battlewagon
Big Shoota (x1); Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

around 1500pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most model are just in 2 sets of AoBR ork. Faily cheap

And you have already got 1 wagon, so just buy a pair.

If you don't want to buy wagons, the AoBR models...could go to a horde list, and you need to buy kans. The models of kans are fine, while the wagon models are also not bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/04 08:48:33


Tokugawa plays:  
   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

Thanks Tokugawa.
To be honest I had a smaller mob in mind.. say around 750-1000 pts. Or do that mess up the balance of the game?
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Hemet california

small games are fun but even then you would want either wagons or kans.


orks need them in order to do well

Diplomacy is the act of saying good doggie until you can find a big enough gun!!!
 
   
Made in au
Sinewy Scourge




Downunder

@Tokugawa: if you put a PK on the KFFMek you better give him Cybork too. Or just save on spending points on the coward leaving him with just the KFF

OP, Orks follow a limited number of builds. Tokugawa's just plopped down a pretty solid Mech-Wagon list. The other major options are Green Tide which is pretty much self-explanatory but means you will be painting for a century. The other is lots of Killa Kans, Deff Dredds, and usually mobs of Lootas.

If you've got some experience with 40K or other strategy games, then Kommandos with 2 Burnas and the Special Character Boss Snikrot add major psychology to the game. The unit essentially pushes the enemy closer as it allows you to hit them in the rear when it appears, thus by avoiding the chance of losing something critical at the back, they endanger everything by moving it closer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/04 16:22:44


Also littlenibbler Orks aren't about armour saves.
Orks are about having too many models on the table, and wasting the other guy's time with your movement phase.
Orks are about having the toughest units on the table.
Orks are about not caring about how many bodies are left in a long winding trail until the squad is down to less than a third its starting strength.
Orks are about rolling more dice then you can count without the aid of a calculator or a pen and paper.
Orks are about having totally fething insane characters tearing gak down like Doc Grotsnik, Ghazghkull or Snikrot.
Orks are about being too fething awesome to die...
Lets settle this in the arena http://pantsformer.mybrute.com 
   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

Thanks for the Advice
At the moment, I am not too concerned about the exact wargear load out to go for, but rather what models will be needed to field a decent 750-1000'ish pts. Though I would like to know if it is worth replacing the sluggas for shootas on a mob or two of boys, before I put them together.

I DO love killer kans, and love that so many are building their own,and am at present building a mob of three from old bits and parts. But will I need more for them to be effective?
   
Made in au
Sinewy Scourge




Downunder

Shootas are considered the better of the two. On the other hand if its likely you'll be fight up close like in Cities of Death, then Sluggas are probably better for 4 Attacks per boy on the charge.

Kans are effective, and getting more of them is a pretty solid decision. They can work well as a single mob, but most people like maxing them out for the BS3 Heavy weapons.

Also littlenibbler Orks aren't about armour saves.
Orks are about having too many models on the table, and wasting the other guy's time with your movement phase.
Orks are about having the toughest units on the table.
Orks are about not caring about how many bodies are left in a long winding trail until the squad is down to less than a third its starting strength.
Orks are about rolling more dice then you can count without the aid of a calculator or a pen and paper.
Orks are about having totally fething insane characters tearing gak down like Doc Grotsnik, Ghazghkull or Snikrot.
Orks are about being too fething awesome to die...
Lets settle this in the arena http://pantsformer.mybrute.com 
   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

How about Trucks... Are they worth taking?
   
Made in au
Sinewy Scourge




Downunder

Trukks are 50-50. Not as good as wagons, but darn cheaper and can move fast enough. Ramshackle is what kills them. Getting a Kareen! can dump that unit back in your own lines, or too far forward to survive for reinforcement. They're also so easy to pop that buying more than RPJ is a risk.

If you take trukks, use them to lose them. Don't transport Complex nobs in them or meganobz unless you can field units that are scarier than either of those (which is unlikely outside of Apoc). They're ok for zooming a unit forward to contest an objective on the last turn, but consider it a rare day for them to survive past Turn 3.

Also littlenibbler Orks aren't about armour saves.
Orks are about having too many models on the table, and wasting the other guy's time with your movement phase.
Orks are about having the toughest units on the table.
Orks are about not caring about how many bodies are left in a long winding trail until the squad is down to less than a third its starting strength.
Orks are about rolling more dice then you can count without the aid of a calculator or a pen and paper.
Orks are about having totally fething insane characters tearing gak down like Doc Grotsnik, Ghazghkull or Snikrot.
Orks are about being too fething awesome to die...
Lets settle this in the arena http://pantsformer.mybrute.com 
   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

Point taken. Wagons it is.... And I guess I want my mobs to be bigger than the 12 models Trucks can carry.?
   
Made in au
Sinewy Scourge




Downunder

You do. 6+ armour saves are kind of the weak point of Mob Rule, which almost all ork units are dependant on, and the trukk just compounds that by making a close-quarters unit with poor armour that much easier to break.

Also littlenibbler Orks aren't about armour saves.
Orks are about having too many models on the table, and wasting the other guy's time with your movement phase.
Orks are about having the toughest units on the table.
Orks are about not caring about how many bodies are left in a long winding trail until the squad is down to less than a third its starting strength.
Orks are about rolling more dice then you can count without the aid of a calculator or a pen and paper.
Orks are about having totally fething insane characters tearing gak down like Doc Grotsnik, Ghazghkull or Snikrot.
Orks are about being too fething awesome to die...
Lets settle this in the arena http://pantsformer.mybrute.com 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Greetings newbie! Welcome to the Green Kroosade, the Big Waaaugh!, the Green Tide, and all those other things.

I wrote something useful for you to read elsewhere in a tactical article, and am copying it here for you to learn how to build an ork army:

I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.


Here's a quick take on those various lists. Please remember something important: Every list needs to be tailored for point allocations. What I'm putting down here is an "optimized" list where you get the maximum ability from it, so if you're playing a 1,000 point gunline, three full squads of Lootas + supporting units and troop choices isn't really what you're going to play. You'll have to tweak to match your needs.

Green Tide:
Green tide is actually an apocalypse battle formation, but is a common name for a foot-slogging ork army list. It consists of mobs of 30 shoota boys, a nob with a powerklaw, and either a unit of gretchin or a unit of boyz or 'Ard Boyz (maybe even with Mad Dok) screened across the front to give the rest of the army a 4+ cover save as they advance up the board.

Mechanized Assault:
12 slugga boyz+Nob/PK stacked into trukks, perhaps some battlewagons in the mix, covered by a Big Mek with a KFF...an elite unit or two (kommandos, lootas, burnas) tacked into the mix depending on your personal playstyle - they get into close combat as fast as orkishly possible; with Ghazghkull leading the mix, that's usually turn2.

Mechanized Shooting:
Instead of slugga boys, you have shoota boys, preferably in battlewagons, with a KFF screening them, rolling around the battlefield pouring firepower into enemy units. Alternatively, (and one of my favorite setups) this is 3 Loota squads inside battlewagons sitting on the back table edge, Big mek with KFF in the middle one in a trident formation \|/ to present front armor across the battlefield, surrounded by a unit of gretchin to prevent assaults on rear armor.


Ork Gunline:
Three squads of Lootas form the backbone of this, either sitting in cover or with a screening unit to give them a 4+ cover save, heavy support of big guns or some dreads/kans to provide long range firepower, with the obligatory shoota boy squads.


Kan wall:
One of the current meta-game favorites: Three squads of three killa-kans, protected by a KFF mek (or two) marching up the field screening mobs of shoota boys behind them.


Dreadz of Fury:
Three DeffDreads for Heavy Support + 2 Deff Dreads for troop choices, with a KFF mek screening them for a 4+ cover save, set for either long ranged fire support or close ranged pwnage; I prefer the STR10 DCCWs.


Kult of Speed:
Straight out of your codex! Boyz in trukks, mechanized element + Stormboyz. Ponder this for a moment: 6 trukks full of boyz screened by a Mek with a KFF, in turn screening 3 units of Stormboyz who can move as fast as the trukks moving flat out...that's a lot of fast moving destruction.

Outflanking Goodness:
Kommandos as elites and Deffkoptas as fast attack, as many of each as you can fit in, often with Deffkoptas equipped differently for wound allocation spread outflanking (unless you get turn1 and put your deffkoptas out for a turn1 turbo-boost).


Rebel Grotz:
Instead of six units of boyz, you get.....gretchin! Bwah ha ha. Not particularly scary in themselves, but using covering units or terrain, able to go to ground for a 3+ cover save, making them incredibly difficult to remove from an objective, especially with other gretchin (inside killa-kans) are krumping around the battlefield.

Nob Bikers:
Two warbosses + 20 nobs = 2HQ + 2Troops. 22 models = 1750. Diversified wargear and weaponry let you spread wounds around instead of removing models, and the unit is incredibly tough, has the ability to get anywhere fast, and kill anything fast.

Super Units:
Similar to Nob bikers in having an army with a low model count: Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz; a couple units of Meganobs, or my personal preference, units of regular nobs with diversified wargear for wound allocation magic - in vehicles!


Orky Burnas:
Start with three units of burna boys. Put them in battlewagons if you like. Mek with a KFF to screen if you do, and you have an army of combination templates / power weapons. Alternatively, a warboss makes nobs a troops choice, and you can give them all kombi-skorchas for some real carnage.


Battlewagon Spam:
Did you know that you can field 8 Battlewagons in a single army list? That's right...eight battlewagons. Three Heavy Support, Three dedicated transports for elite unit nobs, and two warbosses making two units of nobs troop choices so that you can take two more battlewagons. I think any time you have vehicles, you should have a KFF floating around, so I wouldn't advocate going for 8....but you can do a lot of things with a list of Battlewagons.

   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Denmark

Thanks a lot Dashofpepper. that's very helpful.
I was going for a little of everything... in order to build/paint a variety of models.... but from your post I can see that is a big mistake.

Think I'll be looking at the "kan wall" tactic first... with a bunch of shoota boys and perhaps a wagon of truck as transport for a special unit.
   
Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Tigard Oregon

yeah, dash knows what he's talking about with orks.

I run a Kan wall currently, however i don't run shoota boys as he suggests, i do slugga boys because i personally feel boys are much better at assault then shooting and those extra attacks are going to be more likely to do damage. But, i think that goes down to preference to a certain extent i personally love assault and those extra dice tend to help me tremendously, while i seem to always screw up shooting.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Stubby wrote:yeah, dash knows what he's talking about with orks.

I run a Kan wall currently, however i don't run shoota boys as he suggests, i do slugga boys because i personally feel boys are much better at assault then shooting and those extra attacks are going to be more likely to do damage. But, i think that goes down to preference to a certain extent i personally love assault and those extra dice tend to help me tremendously, while i seem to always screw up shooting.


Mathematically, shoota boyz are better on foot than slugga boys - mostly because boyz are I3 on the charge, often I1 because of assaulting through cover, and a bunch will die before they get to attack whatever they're assaulting.

   
 
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