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I'm weighing two different lists for 'Ard Boyz- both are largely tanks, but one of them has a Bike Council tacked on. I would appreciate suggestions of which one will be 'arder, and why.

I've already got a thread on why I'm considering a unit of jetbikes, and why I'm not entirely comfortable with it- it's here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287784.page if anyone would care to take a look.

A few givens for each list: they've each got a little chrome, some stuff just for fun. Even when doing well in a game (neutralizing enemy mobility and then shocking them away from objectives, ideally), I sometimes need a little extra oof to kick the stubborn survivors off the objectives. Thus, Yriel and the blinged-out DAs plus some Storm Guard flamers. I could probably strip these out and do well with another whole mounted unit, but I kind of like having a tiny bit of flavor in there too.

Anyways, here are the two lists. Please let me know which one looks 'arder, if you would be so kind. First the all-tank, then the bike-council-assisted list.


'Ard Boyz 2500 Mech Eldar All-tank, Nasty

Yriel (with 10x DAs in Serpent) 155

5 Fire Dragons 80
Wave Serpent, stones, star engines, TL shuricannon 125

5 Fire Dragons 80
Wave Serpent, stones, star engines, TL shuricannon 125

5 Fire Dragons, incl. exarch with flamer 92
Wave Serpent, stones, star engines, TL shuricannon 125

10 DAs incl Exarch with PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend 177
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

5 DAs 60
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

5 DAs 60
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

5 DAs 60
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

10 Storm Guard incl 2x flamers 92
Wave Serpent, stones, TL shuricannon 110

10 Storm Guard incl 2x flamers 92
Wave Serpent, stones, TL shuricannon 110


Fire Prism, stones 125
Fire Prism, stones 125
Fire Prism, stones 125


2498



'Ard Boyz 2500 Mech Eldar Jetseer-Tank Hybrid, Nasty

Yriel (with 10x DAs in Serpent) 155

Farseer on bike with Fortune, Runes of Warding 130
8x Bikelocks incl. 2x Embolden, 1x Enhance 385

5 Fire Dragons 80
Wave Serpent, stones, star engines, TL shuricannon 125

5 Fire Dragons 80
Wave Serpent, stones, star engines, TL shuricannon 125

10 DAs incl Exarch with PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend 177
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

5 DAs 60
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

5 DAs 60
Wave Serpent, stones, TL BL 145

10 Storm Guard incl 2x flamers, Warlock with Destructor 127
Wave Serpent, stones, TL shuricannon 110

3x Jetbikes, shuricannon 76


Fire Prism, stones 125
Fire Prism, stones 125
Fire Prism, stones 125


2500

I'd consider the first list.
Jetbikes do not fit into an otherwise fully mech army.

Well, I've seen a few serious contenders field a bikeseers-and-tanks army and kick some serious donkey with it. Sure, the seers present a different target profile than the tanks (allowing antipersonnel weapons to be useful when they normally would not be), but they're so hard that I thought they might still work- and add a CC element and resilience that's otherwise lacking in all-skimmer lists.

But I guess you're right and they don't belong unless I can come up with a few good synergies with the tanks, find a way to make them fit. Otherwise it's just a seed for confusion and indecision during play. Oh well, all-tanks it is for now, unless I can get in a dozen or so playtest games with the Seers.

First list looks good, but I would re-vamp and drop a DA unit + WS in order to get a Fortune-Doomseer to Fortune Yriel's tank's coversaves (and the units armor, once they are out), as well as help with wounding enemy units. This will also allow you to get a Warlock into each Guardian squad, adding the all important Destructor, thus turning the unit into a 2 Flamer+ Heavy Flamer unit of doom.

Perhaps even more important, the Seer will allow you to purchase RoW, in order to have the abillity to shut down enemy psykers, anywhere on the table.

Farseer and Warlocks...not just for use in a Seer Council

I see both lists with that Yriel/DA + PW/SS and just say to myself, that's going to get blown off the table in about 2.5 seconds. Yes, it's going to do some damage if you get it in assault, but one AP4 firing and you can kiss the unit goodbye.

Might I ask why on the Prisms with stones? I would hope your firing from a distance that stunned doesn't matter, and if your not then you have more things to worry about then being able to move.

Exarch on Dragons is a waste of points IMHO

Star engine on the Dragons serpents is for? 24" should get you into position turn 1, 36" is going to get you assaulted.

Warlock in the SG packs?


If your going to 'ard boyz for giggles then you should be ok, but otherwise I see both getting hurt bad by any SM variant. Way too many points sunk into situational upgrades and choices.

Thanks for the advice, fellas.

Alerian, I was considering a Fortuneseer both for RoWard and a cover re-roll. Doom would be gravy, but points-heavy. Is it really worth eliminating a scoring unit and a BL for a single cover-reroll per turn and then 1-2 rounds of CC save re-rolls? I'm a bit worried about how easy it is to shut down powers these days, especially with most armies fielding psychic defense because they are worried about newer, more destructive powers.

I guess I need to find out more about BA and SW psykers to see if they are actually a threat to a skimmer-mech list. If they aren't, I'll skip the Fortuneseer (and his RoWard). If they are, I'll go for the RoWard and attached useful seer.

BlueDagger- Yriel and the DAs are there to last a single turn, usually. Basically if I can't dislodge enemy troops off of an objective and my Prisms are not working, I'll use a turn of Bladestorm and an assault to dislodge them. Between cover and Yriel's leadership, I hope they can weather a turn of return fire if the enemy gets one. I usually go second and reserve everything so I get to go last. One round is all they have to deal with on average. I figure I just don't have anything else in my army that can deal with a dug-in squad of MEQ.

The exarch on the single Dragons unit was just using up extra points and adding versatility vs. Green Tide or Nids. If anything useful pops up I'll scrap the exarch's points into it. I'm not sure that destructor-Warlocks are worth that, though. Warlocks on Storm Guard are useful, but I've found them only marginally more so than just 2 flamers. Hmmm- thanks for the criticism, I'll playtest both vs. MEQ, which I've less familiar with than GEQ or Orks.

Star engines seem to be handy in about half the games I play versus mech-heavy IG. I'll strip one of them off, though, keeping one for situational needs. You have a very good point about situation-specific stuff, though. Maybe I'll try to be a little more versatile, investing in more guns and less bling. Thanks for the insight.

Oh, and stones on Prisms are always useful. A shaken skimmer shooting platform does best to move into cover or out of enemy firing range, recover, and then shoot again. Not moving means an enemy tooled for skimmers (or more likely IG Valkyries) can just keep you shaken/stunned every turn with just a couple autocannons. Although distance helps keep the prisms up and firing, LOS and enemy mobility make staying at distance usually unrealistic with more than one of the Prisms. Also, if Prisms lose their cannon and/or are shaken on the last turn and you have stones (always happens to 1-2 per game IME), you can use them as tank-shockers or ramming torpedoes.

I do need to playtest heavily vs. MEQ and Leafblower lists. I'll post results. Again, thanks for helping me sharpen my game up. I get less time to test these days than I'd like, so advice in advance is very useful.