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Hey guys... Looking for some ideas for a tournament list. I'm thinking of entering astronomi-con in May (in Oakville) with my orks. Here's what I'm thinking.
http://www.astronomi-con.com/

Basic strategy is to run the battle wagons up with the KFF and deff rolla everything. The trukk would be a late objective grabber or a distraction.


HQ
warboss, power klaw, attack squig, skorcha, bosspole
-110
big mek, kustom force field, bosspole
-90

Troops
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
11 shoota boyz, trukk, red paint job
-106
3 mega nobz, 1 skorcha, 1 rokkit, battlewagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-254
Deff dread, +2 dccw
-105

Heavy support
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120

total: 1496

Watching Paint Dry wrote:Hey guys... Looking for some ideas for a tournament list. I'm thinking of entering astronomi-con in May (in Oakville) with my orks. Here's what I'm thinking.
http://www.astronomi-con.com/

Basic strategy is to run the battle wagons up with the KFF and deff rolla everything. The trukk would be a late objective grabber or a distraction.


HQ
warboss, power klaw, attack squig, skorcha, bosspole
-110
big mek, kustom force field, bosspole
-90

Troops
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
11 shoota boyz, trukk, red paint job
-106
3 mega nobz, 1 skorcha, 1 rokkit, battlewagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-254
Deff dread, +2 dccw
-105

Heavy support
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120

total: 1496

the single def dread seems a bit out of place in this list.

Watching Paint Dry wrote:Hey guys... Looking for some ideas for a tournament list. I'm thinking of entering astronomi-con in May (in Oakville) with my orks. Here's what I'm thinking.
http://www.astronomi-con.com/

Basic strategy is to run the battle wagons up with the KFF and deff rolla everything. The trukk would be a late objective grabber or a distraction.


HQ
warboss, power klaw, attack squig, skorcha, bosspole
-110
needs armour!!! lol +6 save is not very good. skorcha is good but not really needed.

big mek, kustom force field, bosspole
-90
bosspole is a waste if you have a nob in the unit with it.

Troops
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
20 shoota boyz, one upgraded to nob with power klaw, boss pole
-160
good. nothing really to add here.

11 shoota boyz, trukk, red paint job
-106
1 trukk just a sitting duck lol. a nob with a PK and some boarding planks are also needed. if you do run a lone trukk just make sure its behind your wagons to keep it alive.

3 mega nobz, 1 skorcha, 1 rokkit, battlewagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-254
i like the diverse manz. the wagon need a shoota so you dont get a wreck from a weapon destroyed.

Deff dread, +2 dccw
-105
this little guy will just be left in the dust and my never see CC.

Heavy support
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
Battle wagon, deff rolla, red paint job, boarding planks
-120
again you need a shoota on each wagon.
total: 1496

one thing i see missing some good anti armour. lootas/koptas/buggys are needed so you dont get spamed by transports.

Im making the same type of list

i wounldn't use the boarding planks as the battle wagons have deffrolla's, just use those instead

What do you intend to do with 3 MANZ

Your Warboss has a 6+ armour save and no Invulnerable save at all!

I sound quite rude saying this but that is the worst loadout for a warboss I have seen, except for someone who ran him naked.

I don't see why the meganobz are in there when a single IG pie plate will wipe the squad.
Why do none of the wagons have big shootas to avoid immobilization from the conversion of a weapon off result.
I don't see why the trukk mob lacks a nob and PK as it is one of the few units in the codex that needs the PK Nob the most.
I don't see why the big mek has a BP unless you going to put him in the Trukk with the 11 boyz, in which case good luck, your whole army will come to a screeching halt the moment you face an opponent who has read the ork 'dex and puts a lascannon bolt through the trukk making you wait a turn to get him re-mounted.

Your Boyz are fine. I'll add my voice to the chorus on the Boss. He needs 'eavy armor/cybork. I like the Skorcha though. I would drop the trukk. Not because I think it's stupid--you could run it behind the BW's and never really run into a problem except stray pie plates--but because those points could be better spent on upgrading your boss and adding a few more nobz and upgrading your BW's with a weapon or two a piece. Kannons are nice, as are B.Shootas.

The deff dread seems out of place at first to me, but in reality, it's not that bad for a 3rd turn assist to combat. Again though, you're outrunning it with BW's so expect pain if you leave it behind and only give enemy fire support an easy kill.

My suggestion is to either drop the Manz or the Deff Dread and get another Deff Dread/More Manz, respectively. If you were hoping to use the three man Meganobz squad wound allocation cheese, first off..well it's cheese. Second off it's not nearly as effective on a three model squad.

I'd actually have two or maybe three Dreads stomping around. The second one should be more shooty, and the one you do have should be CC oriented. Or you can mix and match the two. Either way, keep them sorta close.

No cybork body on the boss so he'll get wasted pretty sharp.

The solo trukk and deff dread are easy targets and a waste of points. Drop them and get some lootas so you have ranged anti tank. Just because you can take a deff dread doesn't mean you should, it will get left behind as it can only move 6" and then whatever run.

Oh, and all wagons need a big shoota or else suffer a weapon destroyed result and you become immobilised.

You know....

I'm going to chime in and disagree with everyone here about the Deff Dread.

First, I'd like to point out all the non-ork players (from their titles) that are giving ork advice. Even if they do play orks, their first and most important love is clearly not orks, so you should listen to me instead.

With that said....I'm putting a deff dread into my take-all-comers list, and here's why:

While I disagree with pretty much everything in your list and its effectiveness (except for the battlewagons, which need tweaking desperately), the Deff Dread isn't going to pick up a whole lot of flack if its hidden behind the wagons, and it serves to provide an answer to something that orks have a weakness to - EW daemons (especially bloodcrushers, fiends to a lesser extent) and lightning claw terminators. Having an AV12 platform that can walk into a bloodcrusher unit or lightning claw unit and keep it there away from your boyz (or plague marines, or space marines, or big ork squads, although the almost mandatory inclusion of the powerklaw will make you probably not last indefinitely) is of definite use.

I have Ghazghkull Thraka and a burna mob unit in my list (in a battlewagon of course) and those are my answer to things I'm afraid to send my boyz into. However, Bloodcrushers have EW and two wounds, and an invul save, making Ghazghkull a bad fit, and while he can tear up some lightning claws with ease, I probably need him to kill a land raider, and I don't want my burna boyz mixing it up with land raiders or lightning claws, while they'd be happy to take down TH/SS terminators.

And against tyranids....even on the charge boyz are I3 and gants are I4. And as often as not, they have poison, or feel no pain, or buffs they're getting from hive tyrants / tervigons.

The deff dread and its AV12 uniquely fills a gap that the standard list can't readily fill. My standard list has a 5 man Loota unit and a 6 man loota unit, and 3 deff-koptas (TL Rokkits+Buzzsaws) in units of one each - taking the deffdread cost me a deffkopta and a Loota. I think its worth it.

...the deff dread still falls behind the 12" moving wagons. If it runs it cannot assault. While it might not get shot at, it cannot keep up with the faster moving wagons. Plus there is only one, so no multiple threat and unit redudnancy.

As for bloodcrushers, just torrent them of fire....easiest thing to do.

mercer wrote:...the deff dread still falls behind the 12" moving wagons. If it runs it cannot assault. While it might not get shot at, it cannot keep up with the faster moving wagons. Plus there is only one, so no multiple threat and unit redudnancy.

As for bloodcrushers, just torrent them of fire....easiest thing to do.

And for those who play assault lists, torrent of fire isn't really an option. Keep in mind that when you're playing against daemons, there is no "falling behind the wagons" for the first couple of turns. Daemon players will generally elect to go second, leaving you a full turn of shifting about on the board with no targets. You can take that time to spread out and minimizing deep-striking area opportunity, but if you start your deff-dread on the line, move and run it on turn1, you're only going to be a few inches behind the lead point of the wagons anyway with nothing on the table, and if you picked a flank, the dread is on the inside of your rolling vehicles, and closer to any deep-striking units than the wagons anyway.

What is the fasination with daemons? Deff dreads are affective against other armies too.

However, the deff dreads still may fall behind. In a recent game against daemons most of my opponent deep striked his army near a objective, away from my army, only a few units remained. I slaughted them and then drove out, which I then need to get moving - a deff dread wouldn't be able to do this.

While you say about daemon armies is mostly true, however some is theory, this isn't the case for other armies. So the deff dread, in your words is best against daemon armies, however the fact is it will fall behind faster moving vehicles and become a easy target.

Some ork lists that include a mechanized contingent can also have a static element- it depends on playstyle.

Like for me, I am currently between Kan Wall and Mechanized for my play list (dash- I'm still working on a final list X_X), but such an approach divides your army's resources between two types of play.

With Battlewagons and Dreads, the list actually isn't that bad. 2 Meks w/ KFF also means 2 Troop slot Dreads, which combined together shouldn't cost your army above 420-450 points for that investment. Add in 3 Battlewagons at about 310-330 points and you have spent less than 800 points out of a potential 1500.

Assume the OP decides to do this. 2 BWs full of boyz and 1 full of Burnas shouldn't add more than 600. That leaves depending on stripping other units the ability to add a third objective grabbing unit of grots and maybe 1-2 Deffkoptas for suicide purposes.

Expanding this list to 1850 adds more versatility, such as Loota squad.

Dreads are not TOO slow compared to BWs, but fail in terms of speed when compared to Trukks. At worst, a Dread will fall behind about a turn- two later than BWs. Being slower also means the ability to turn around and deal with threats from behind, such as flankers and deep strikers.

The deff dread cannot assaut after if it rubs anyway! What is the point of a assault unit that cannot assault? Also if the dread can turn round so can the faster wagon, once again the dread gets beaten on speed. So best keeping units which move at the same speed and not ones which lag behind and can be flanked easily and have little support

mercer wrote:The deff dread cannot assaut after if it rubs anyway! What is the point of a assault unit that cannot assault? Also if the dread can turn round so can the faster wagon, once again the dread gets beaten on speed. So best keeping units which move at the same speed and not ones which lag behind and can be flanked easily and have little support

Rubs? Do you mean destroyed before it gets into close combat? Or do you mean runs.

A faster Battlewagon would be more concerned with unloading it's payload and supporting the troops it just disgorged. A DD can either help support the assaulting line it is attempting to get towards, or stay back and help defend weak Loota squads as well as shore up a home objective (a unit of grots will not do the job). Hell, you can probably send them off towards another objective and challenge that while the BWs and boyz go to werk on the opponent's line.

What makes a dread a decent choice is that it does not take up a heavy slot with a Big Mek being taken along. The Dread can get into combat. It can help as insurance if it stays back with Lootas against deep strikers. While it cannot hold an objective, it can contest. Because of their decent AV, they can plow through any units incapable of taking on armor (which most would be focusing on Battlewagons anyway).

I see both arguments as valid. My advice wasn't to remove the Dread, but a cautionary warning on its use in an otherwise fast-moving list. I see it as being completely useful, just not until T3 in some games or against certain opponents. I completely agree that due to T1 run that it wouldn't be 'left behind' but that (as I stated) you have to be careful that as you run it, and your wagons move forward, flanking fast units like Land speeders, deffkoptas, vypers, etc would happily eat a dread if it was a few inches behind rather than glancing on a Battlewagon.

I appreciate that non-Ork players giving Ork advice is always a 'take with a grain of salt' moment as I think Dash is trying to say, but the other side of the coin is that some of us (I'm in this boat) do play against Orks quite often. In my case... almost every friendly game I play.

Deff dreads are awesome, even in a BW list. The caution is to play it correctly or you end up with 100ish points that doesn't hit at the same time as the core of your army. That's not an argument, that's the truth.

I ran a Mech eldar list at Hardboyz last year to good effect but here's the catch... I also brought an Avatar. 7 Grav Tanks, 3 Vypers, and the moultan Man himself.

Now this may seem different (and a lot of people were shaking thier heads when they saw my list) but its really not, in fact the tanks in my army were even more likely to leave my big guy in the dust and did quite often but then on turn 3 or so he would stroll in mostly untouched due to being behind tanks most of the game and he always came through.

Sometimes its nice to have a big scary dude holding the rear guard... especially with all the deep striking/out flanking going on these days. Think of it as a big watch dog/counter assaulter.

That's my 2 cents on that, as for the list, read Dashopeppa's batreps and you should get an idea of what works in this type of list.

Do lose the 3 mega nobz and pimp out the wagons a bit more, also I think that Deffkoptas are mandatory to some degree in both effect and in being fun to use. I'm going to build a small heli pad on one of my wagons for mine so they don't wast fuel on the way to battle.

Actually just took the Deff Dread back out of my GT list.

It doesn't belong - while in theory its great against those STR4 and STR5 devil units - Bloodcrushers, lightning claws, gants....

In reality, other good players know enough to keep those units away from the deff dread. I took it back out, put back in the deffkopta and 2 Lootas it had cost me.

You seemed pretty sure about it before, Dash, but I've seen your lists for the most part. I'd think you could make it work either way, but I'd go for the kopta personally. Koptas are nice in that an opponent has to divert attention from wagons to stop them, or ignore them and lose vehicles. Opponents can, as you said, avoid the dread--sometimes.

OP: I still don't think you need to drop it in your list. I do think the trukk is a mistake and a waste of points though.

WarOne wrote:

Rubs? Do you mean destroyed before it gets into close combat? Or do you mean runs.

Doh! Predictive text on iphone!

Zain60 wrote:

I appreciate that non-Ork players giving Ork advice is always a 'take with a grain of salt' moment as I think Dash is trying to say, but the other side of the coin is that some of us (I'm in this boat) do play against Orks quite often. In my case... almost every friendly game I play.

For the record, Orks are my joint main army and I play them mostly along side my Imperial Fists - Dash does know this.

Dashofpepper wrote:Actually just took the Deff Dread back out of my GT list.

It doesn't belong - while in theory its great against those STR4 and STR5 devil units - Bloodcrushers, lightning claws, gants....

In reality, other good players know enough to keep those units away from the deff dread. I took it back out, put back in the deffkopta and 2 Lootas it had cost me.

Well I did say....

Zain60 wrote:Opponents can, as you said, avoid the dread--sometimes.

Yes, that was my whole point some posts ago. Easily avoided and cannot keep the pace with a battlewagon rush or trukk horde.

Zain60 wrote:You seemed pretty sure about it before, Dash, but I've seen your lists for the most part.

I think that a Deff Dread definitely serves a purpose, and in an Ork gunline....it might even be a mandatory addition. But realistically in a KoS list, it can't react fast enough or move fast enough to get where it needs to be.

See, in theoryhammer it sounded great, so I added it to my list. Then I playtested it a bunch against daemons and terminators and....took it back out again after it wandered around aimlessly.