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Well, I was at my local Gamesworkshop the other day and I was talking about how cool Blood-Angels look, to a fellow hobbyist. Then the hobbyist said that they are totally rubbish and look like pretty-boys. Since then I have doubts about collecting a Blood angels army, what do you think of them, because I know that people have mixed feelings about them, but no fair and balanced reveiws of them. (If this question has been asked already, then feel free to Lock this thread, and I am sorry for writing an invaluable thread if so).

Nipples... it's all about the nipples.

Sometimes I imagine that many GW fans are going to be intimidated by a Chapter of handsome Adonis-like Space Marines with perfectly sculpted abdominals, and nipples on their armour. I figure that's why Space Wolves are also so popular: it's easier for GW fans to empathize with a bunch of beer-swilling neckbeards.

I also gotta admit I'm beginning to call my Captain "Dereco Zoolander".

Yeah, but why do people say that when the armour is based on greek armour, which is cool. Also the sculpts are really nice and detailed.

Cardboard118 wrote:Yeah, but why do people say that when the armour is based on greek armour, which is cool. Also the sculpts are really nice and detailed.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE GODDAMN BAT NIPPLES!

Yeah, but I think that people are just being immature about the whole thing.

Sanctjud wrote:Nipples... it's all about the nipples.

Damnit! I almost sprayed my keyboard with beer. Naughty Sanctjud !

To OP: They are MEQ with FNP add ons, that want to chop you in melee. Nothing revolutionary there. Plague Marines have been doing this for some time. The medicine is the same in both cases: S8+ and/or AP 1-2. IG can get plenty of both .

Yeah, but I think that people are just being immature about the whole thing.

Whoa whoa whoa, way to kill the hard-on for bat nipples.
__________________-

For real...
"/sigh, another Loyalist Space Marine/count-as bait codex."

A-P:

The difference being that Plague Marines are lousy in combat.

Nurglitch wrote:A-P:

The difference being that Plague Marines are lousy in combat.

. I beg to differ.

EDIT: Sure, they lack the Alpha Strike ability of Berzerkers, Orks or similar. That is not their way, they win by attrition.

I think that some people are making a joke about the blood angels because they are afraid of them, and them beating the persons army. Besides if you don't like the sanguiniary guard (which I think is a awsome boxed set), look at the New death company, which has some of the most detailed sculpts out of Warhammer 40k, even some of the rivets on the weapons are blood-drops. Personally I think that the new Blood angels look, and are amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZLtMc3u4o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IUD4vHkGCw&feature=channel

Actually no, they lose by attrition. Both their Feel No Pain and Armour Save are negated by Power Weapons, and other weapons that ignore armour, and their enhanced Toughness is negated by the S8+ of Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and so on.

At 23 points each, they cost 8 points more than Chaos Space Marines. In order words you get two wounds for the price of three, 50% more attacks, and attacks at I4. Having 2/3s the wounds means that they will vaporize faster when exposed to Plasma Cannons, Dreadnoughts, Assault Terminators, etc.

Bunch of Khorne wannabes in my opinion.

Their fluff is remarkably weak. Death Company sound a lot like Wulfen, only dumber.

Seriously though, how long until they turn to chaos and sell their souls to Khorne?

I dislike lots of parts of the new BA codex, much like a dislike parts of the new nid codex and the new puppy codex.

Complaints for the new BA codex include

Sanguinary Priests, 50 points for FnP+furious charge bubbles? Over the top overpowered IMO.

Librarian dreadnoughts? Creative, but I still think this should have gone to a different chapter. (a certain chapter that was featured in the DOW games comes to mind)

Crappy fluff, teaming up with necrons? no. other examples in another thread.

back in the day, Space Wolves were the assault oriented space marine chapter, Blood Angels were assault flavored, but they did not compete with the nordic BAMFs known as space wolves, now Blood Angles womp space wolves every time, 10 man BA assault squad assaults into 10 grey hunters, grey hunters all die, before getting to swing, counter-attack making no difference. 10 man grey hunters assault into 10 man BA assault squad, combat lasts a few rounds and grey hunters barely come out on top, albeit severly crippled. If there is a sangy priest anywhere nearby, then the BA win every time.

Vehicles? BA can feild more land raiders, better tanks (fast Baals, Preds, and Vindies) and more cost-efficient maximum overdrive (5 man assault squad with razorback costs 5 points less)


TLDR: Hate the new BA codex because its classic codex creep with terrible fluff.

Let's see, a squad of ten Blood Angels Assault Marines accompanied by a Sanguinary Priest piles into a squad of Grey Hunters accompanied by a Wolf Guard. The Grey Hunters have a model with a Power Fist, a model with the Mark of the Wulfen, and a model with a Wolf Standard. The Wolf Guard has a pair of Wolf Claws. The Sanguinary Priest and the Blood Angels Veteran Sergeant have Power Swords.

The Assault Marines and the Sanguinary Priest attack first at I5 thanks to the Blood Chalice. That's 4 Power Weapon attacks at 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no saves, 4 Power Weapon attacks at 4+, 3+ to wound, no saves, and 27 attacks at 4+, 3+ to wound, 2- to fail saves.

1.8 unsaved wounds expected from the Sanguinary Priest, 1.34 unsaved wounds expected from the Assault Sergeant, 2.23 unsaved wounds expected from the Assault Marines. So about 5 casualties for the Grey Hunters, supposing them taken from amongst the regular Brethren.

The Grey Hunters counter-attack on Ld9, or 0.83 (or 2+ on 1D6), for 4 attacks at 4+ (re-rolled), 4+ to wound, no saves or Feel No Pain, 2 attacks at 4+, 2+ to wound, no saves or Feel No Pain, 1D6+2 attacks at 4+, 4+ to wound (Rending), 2- to fail saves, to fail Feel No Pain, 6 attacks at 4+, 4+ to wound, 2- to fail saves, 3- to fail Feel No Pain.

1.5 unsaved wounds expected from the Wolfguard, 0.83 unsaved wounds expected from the Grey Hunter with the Power Fist, 0.35 unsaved wounds expected from the Mark of the Wulfen, 0.25 unsaved wounds expected from the Brethren. That's about 3 casualties inflicted on the Blood Angels.

The Space Wolves can therefore be expected to lose by 2 points, taking a morale check on Ld7, with a 0.58 expected success (or less than the likelihood of 3+ on 1D6).

If the Wolfguard or Power Fist inflict one of those wounds on the Sanguinary Priest, then the second round is rather one-sided...

Sometimes the Wolves will get the charge on the BA in which case the BA are screwed. Some units start 24" apart. Thanks to the bolters that GH carry, they can get a few shots in to help their situation, and get the assault if the BA player is too aggressive. The BA have to get the charge to win combats, otherwise they are just 2 attack base marines with FNP.

Its the damn FNP bubble that sucks rocks. They could have been balanced if it was just to the attached squad. It would have been seen as more fair and not OTT.

Personally, I hate the new look of the BA. The sculpted armor just looks stupid. It looked stupid on the Greeks, it looks stupid on little plastic men. And the wings just make it worse.

While its more points added to the equation, but since your army is required to have an HQ. A Rune Priest with Tempests wraith will knock out 3 marines just on the walk over to try and get the charge. However since tempests wraith is a 24" bubble, its quite concievable that the power would effect the BA even if the Rune Priest is no where near the ensuing HTH combat.

Nurglitch wrote:Let's see, ......

You forgot shooting in your analysis. 2 meltas + 9 bolt pistols = 1.34 + 1 = 2.34 dead SWs. Shooting is pretty important when making comparisons like these (see CSM vs Plague Marines).

Shooting could be very tricky for the BA. The SW could extend out the distance to assault by 2-4 inches depending on who is assigned the death shots. Thus putting the BA out of charge range.

Cardboard118 wrote:I think that some people are making a joke about the blood angels because they are afraid of them, and them beating the persons army. Besides if you don't like the sanguiniary guard (which I think is a awsome boxed set), look at the New death company, which has some of the most detailed sculpts out of Warhammer 40k, even some of the rivets on the weapons are blood-drops. Personally I think that the new Blood angels look, and are amazing.

Hi Carboard

simple thing to say is if you like them and would feel comfortable collecting and playing Blood Angels then do it.
If you feel that you are being swayed by the hype and hullaballoo then just wait a while. If you really want Blood Angels then do it!
Personally I am not convinced by the red ones, but Space Wolves are wot I went for as they fit the bill for me.
When I decided to go SW had no idea if they are considered cool or cheesy. Don't care what people think about my lupine loonies!

Sorry I cannot advise on the gameplay aspect, but in terms of army building, it is you who will be investing time and money into the models, so it is your call mate and that should be good enough.

With regard for the armour the nipples thing is getting tedious. It is classicaly based. It looks ridiculous to me, but that is just my preference, and if you think it is cool then that is fine. I just happen to prefer stuff from the northern tribes, bloody Romans!

Jayden63 wrote:Shooting could be very tricky for the BA. The SW could extend out the distance to assault by 2-4 inches depending on who is assigned the death shots. Thus putting the BA out of charge range.

That can be said for any unit. However, jump pack BAs with the extra 6" move is going to have less of an issue than most other units in the game with this.

Demogerg wrote:

Librarian dreadnoughts? Creative, but I still think this should have gone to a different chapter. (a certain chapter that was featured in the DOW games comes to mind)

you wouldn't happen to be talking about the BLUHD REHVEHNS would you?

@ Nightlords

Not really. Most units that want to be in assault will have some way of having the same move ratio. Most units that want to shoot, have ways of moving and still shooting.

GH are a unique type of unit where they don't really need the assault and don't overly care if they get assaulted (within reason of course). Assault marines that are going against things that have 24" range guns suddenly find that extra 6" of positioning is the difference between getting shot once or twice and getting the charge or not.

Even guardsmen will charge into assault marines if it means they don't get the +1 attack and +1S for that first round.

Yes jump packs makes getting the charge easier. But if your opponent is not trying to get the charge themselves, then positioning is even more important.

Grey Hunters need the assault more than people think, particularly with all the Furious Charge units out there, but also for reasons of Counter-Attack being less than completely reliable on Ld8, equivalent to a 2+ on 1D6 for Ld9, and so on. Then there's good reasons to deny one's opponent both position and the +1A.

Obviously you guys need to read the fluff. BA are the best at everything. /sarcasm

Jayden63 wrote:@ Nightlords

Not really. Most units that want to be in assault will have some way of having the same move ratio. Most units that want to shoot, have ways of moving and still shooting.

GH are a unique type of unit where they don't really need the assault and don't overly care if they get assaulted (within reason of course). Assault marines that are going against things that have 24" range guns suddenly find that extra 6" of positioning is the difference between getting shot once or twice and getting the charge or not.

Even guardsmen will charge into assault marines if it means they don't get the +1 attack and +1S for that first round.

Yes jump packs makes getting the charge easier. But if your opponent is not trying to get the charge themselves, then positioning is even more important.

Uhh, how do orks, nids, chaos marines, or even blood angels without jump packs get 18" (consistently)? Jump packs have a clear advantage here.

GHs should care if they get assaulted due to the increase in attacks, and in the case of BAs, hitting second and getting wounded on 3s.

Your example is very situational and can be avoided with some simple foresight of the BA player and his movement.

Point is, shooting is important, and with jump packs, having the result of killing 1 or 2 marines negating the charge is rare.

I like the new Blood Angels codex. Some of it is a bit "BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD" silly, but overall it seems pretty decent. I'm yet to use it, but I'm building a small Flesh Tearers army around Seth that should be pretty fun.

I feel they are another addition to the not so well planed imperial codex pile...


Maybe soon they GW will stop rehashing the same old crap and update some xenos that have been waiting 12+ years for a codex.


Also bing back squats and LotD. /endrant

Night Lords wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:@ Nightlords

Not really. Most units that want to be in assault will have some way of having the same move ratio. Most units that want to shoot, have ways of moving and still shooting.

GH are a unique type of unit where they don't really need the assault and don't overly care if they get assaulted (within reason of course). Assault marines that are going against things that have 24" range guns suddenly find that extra 6" of positioning is the difference between getting shot once or twice and getting the charge or not.

Even guardsmen will charge into assault marines if it means they don't get the +1 attack and +1S for that first round.

Yes jump packs makes getting the charge easier. But if your opponent is not trying to get the charge themselves, then positioning is even more important.

Uhh, how do orks, nids, chaos marines, or even blood angels without jump packs get 18" (consistently)? Jump packs have a clear advantage here.

GHs should care if they get assaulted due to the increase in attacks, and in the case of BAs, hitting second and getting wounded on 3s.

Your example is very situational and can be avoided with some simple foresight of the BA player and his movement.

Point is, shooting is important, and with jump packs, having the result of killing 1 or 2 marines negating the charge is rare.

Orks have trukks, stormboys, and waaagh
SM have assault marines of their own, yes they really do. Biker command squad is pretty scary.
Chaos has raptors and bikers
DE have raiders
Necrons have wraiths that move like jet bikes.
Eldar have seer jet bikes.
IG have cavalry (rough riders)

Do I have to list more? Each codex that has units designed to get into assault have 12+ inches of movement or better, its just the way that it is. Sure there are units that can fight in HTH that don't have the same movement, but if a unit is specifically designed for assault, it can match BA for speed.

Yes, GH should care about getting assaulted. Especially by stuff that has Furious Charge. But that's as big of a no-brainer as the idea of shooting the assault stuff. Also, careful movement of the BA player to not get charged, means at least one round of getting rapidfired by something and also in most cases taking plasma or melta to the face.

If your anything less than 18" away,then all the other guy has to do is move 6" forward and be within 12" of the assault marines. The BA are now in range (even rapid fire) of every gun in the game except template weapons and inferno pistols. If your more than 18" away, your not assaulting.

So yeah, range at this point is super important. The BA player has to choose how many free rounds of fire they are willing to give up, and if your using cover to protect against all those AP 3 or better guns your eating dangerous terrain checks - or moving at difficult terrain speeds.

Don't act like jump packs are free assaults. You can loose a lot of models if the other guy doesn't want to get close to you either. Don't think that the BA player is the only one going to be playing smart and trying to use distance to their advantage.

If only there were a God of Blood, a Blood God if you will, that encouraged and nurtured the Blood Angels...

Nurglitch wrote:If only there were a God of Blood, a Blood God if you will, that encouraged and nurtured the Blood Angels...

It'd be cool if his followers wore power armor too eh?

Wait..