Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is a back in the day thread...

I bought some paint tubs the other day from GW, and comparing them to my old tubs, I gotta say I got half as much paint for twice as much money and the Devlan Mud tub was 1/4 empty when I bought it; so I took it back and the cashier guy was so embarassed that he refilled it. Turns out all them were filled the same.

Seriously, what a joke! Jervis Johnson calls himself the "standard bearer". I would be embarassed if I was bearing this kind of standard on GW paint tubs.

So anyway, do you guys know if there are alternative paint suppliers, bacause GW is a joke with their paint tubs??

Thanks,
Daniel M.

I use both GW and Vallejo. I like most of the Vallejo pigments, but some colors don't cover as well (the greens being the biggest culprit). I have found that the Vallejo bottles give you a pretty good amount of paint, and they are droppers, so it's easier to stay consistent with your mixes.

Game color
valejo

are good brands of paint


greetz typhoon

Valejo Game color can be a good choice but some colors just aren't the same (i.e. Blood Red) but the dropper bottles are a big plus!

Typhoon wrote:Game color
valejo

are good brands of paint


greetz typhoon

"plugs something

Kthxbai" kind of post are more of nuisance than anything else as they let people wondering without helping much.

would you reccomend vallejo model or game colours? (little experience with vallejo)

I can fully appreciate your frustration. I still have GW paints from 15 years ago that are still fluid in their old school hex paint pots. But I have newer GW paints that have dried out cos of their ridiculous screw tops that don't seal!! At least their new pop open top paint pots are easier to open, but less paint for more money!

I'd be interested in a change, but I still only use GW paints. I've been tempted by army painter stuff though...

Thanks; Behind th Mask, Typhoon, poipo32 - for your suggestions. I didn't know there are alternative paint brands, until now.

I'll check 'em out! Especially, the dropper bottles from what I understand.

Perhaps I could mix 'n match. Get what's imperitive for me to get from GW, like the green pigments, and the rest from Vallejo Game Color. They gotta be better than what I'm getting with GW.

Stingy is a mean business, and I hope other people realize that things weren't always this bad. Get enough people voting with their wallet and GW starts doing something about it, I would think.

Anyways, I'm firing-off a letter to Jervis J., forthwith. Dude needs to realize that "standard bearers" don't rip-off their followers with stingy paint tub amounts.

Peace,
Daniel M.

The reaper miniatures website has awesome deals on paints.

Rate them highly.

@Murray:

Game Colour: Bright palette, slightly thicker (more durable than model colour), has equivalents for almost all GW colours including some oop paints.

Model Colour: Drab palette, intended for painting 'real world' miniatures and has a correspondingly large selection of greens, browns and grays.

I've recently switched to using vallejo paints because they are cheaper, easier to use, and with a couple of exceptions identical to the GW line.

s.j.mccartney wrote:I can fully appreciate your frustration. I still have GW paints from 15 years ago that are still fluid in their old school hex paint pots. But I have newer GW paints that have dried out cos of their ridiculous screw tops that don't seal!! At least their new pop open top paint pots are easier to open, but less paint for more money!

I'd be interested in a change, but I still only use GW paints. I've been tempted by army painter stuff though...

Thanks for feelin' my frustration, s.j.mccartney.

Those are - indeed- the paint tubs (pots) I'm talkin' about. The washes have always had blue lids, whilst the paints have had white lids. I haven't measured their size, but they gotta be twice the size of the new pop-open tubs which are - I agree - a little easier to open.

I wouldn't even mind paying more, to be honest, what with inflation, and the cost of things rising through the years in general... However, daylight robbery from a company which makes their hobby even more expensive than it already is by stingying on paint amount is just a little criminal, in my view.

I'll look into all competition on principle, I'm that pissed! I mean, who do they think I am? Jervis J. is copping a letter from me, things (tub {pot} amounts) better change soon, I'm going to demand.

Seriously, this cashier guy, an intelligent and friendly guy, was plain embarassed at the amount in the Devlan Mud tub I brought back, and the other tubs he had.

I just found this interesting read on the "Paint Pot Story" here:

http://www.stephane.info/show.php?code=citadel_paint

...The (8) comments are fairly interesting, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MaliceInTheLookingGlass wrote:The reaper miniatures website has awesome deals on paints.

Rate them highly.

Thanks MaliceInTheLookingGlass, I'll check 'em out. And thanks for rating them, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Incidentally, the paint containers are in fact named pots like s.j.mccartney detailed, and not tubs as I called them.

No big thing, but thanks for understanding my meaning, all the same.

Cheers,
Daniel M.

Coat D'arms are the people who did GW originally & their colours match the GW range. You can even get a decent dark angles green that actually covers!
Also the pots are decent - I've still got some paint that's useable after 20 odd years!

Of late, I have been going to mundane hobby stores (i.e. not gaming-related ones) and searching for paint colors that match the GW colors I use a lot of. You generally get 2 oz. for about a dollar... as opposed to GW's .04 oz for three.

Hi guys,

I didn't expect this kind of good response. Thanks for all your input and suggestions.

In conclusion, there seems to be a general consensus amongst many in the gaming community, that GW paints are a rip-off, and people - me now included - are going elsewhere for their paints. That the competition is existing and perhaps even thriving is testament to this market.

I've made a first draft of the letter to Jervis last night, and thought you might be interested to read what I'll be sending:

Jervis Johnson
c/o White Dwarf
Design Studio
Games Workshop
Willow Road
Nottingham NG7 2WS
United Kingdom

Friday 16th April, 2010


Dear “Uncle” Johnson,

STANDARD BEARER (SB): The meaning; a prominent leader. The reading, in the case as put forward or presented within White Dwarf; meant to signify a kind of spiritual leader, of sorts. Perhaps a beacon of all matters authority, concerning Games Workshop (GW) hobby.

So you should be. This SB of GW. Giving advice and painting a cheapened landscape at the edges you helped establish with respect to Games Workshop. However, it is not what fancy titles we attach to ourselves that truly matter, but what people truly think of us after studying our actions.

You may be aware of the “Paint Pot Story”. If you aren't than look it up on the internet, it presents well, the matter I wish to put forward in the here and now.

I bought a paint pot from GW which was ¼ empty, the other day. All the pots of that colour were the same, strangely. The young, intelligent, friendly, and honest lad at the GW store where I made the purchase was so embarassed by this fact that he refilled mine to such a level as any normal person would expect from a $6 AUD purchase for a pot of - not extraordinary - paint. Up to the thick line above Citadel, satisfactorily, if you will.

I am 35 years old. I have recently found this hobby, again. A hobby which I have been in from the start, from the days of Titan, when men of true character, reference, and yes...title - held what was then the Fighting Fantasy Standard, if you will. They got into it for the right reasons, and they continued for the right reasons without ever forgetting the young lads which helped build their business in those early days, by buying all their books, and helping to make all this the success it is today. Livingstone and Jackson made a financial profit, nothing wrong with that in a free, consumer society, but they never ripped-off their loyal and core customers.

At a certain stage they needed to look in the mirror, and did, and were glad they still appeared the same way as when they started their worthy enterprise. The reflection was no mug shot, let me say with respect.

So yeah, I have seen the evolution throughout the years and I am disgusted with the way things now stand in regard to specifically, paint pot sizes and price. It's a joke. I can feel the spray from you spitting in my face across the globe. Those closer to you, those in Great Britain, must feel your saliva to be a particularly heavy downpour. Nothing new in Britain, downpours, though. Here in Aussie, they're less prolific. So, when the precipitation is in the air we usually know where it's coming from.

You may think of yourself as a “standard bearer” but the standard you bear is one which you have forgotten or lost the meaning. If you took the time to lower it from above your head for long enough to clearly identify what it is that is displayed on it, you would find that it continues to remain a mirror. A mirror which would in this instance show the mug shot of one Jervis Johnson, aka "Uncle" Johnson, aka "Uncle" Jervis.

If you did in fact have the gonads or “bullocks” to borrow British parlance, to indeed take a look in the mirror, which is the standard for your kind of business – you would – I hope – see a dodgy crook who has the look of one who is associated with the business for the wrong reasons and with the wrong focus.

Yours sincerely,
Daniel Moszkowicz

---

Not too harsh, I hope?

I think if we were all to write a similar letter about our grievances with any part of GW, then things might change, but who really knows...

In any case, thanks again for the assistance in helping me find alternative paint suppliers.

Best Wishes,
Daniel M.

I will admit that when a business replaces an old model that works great with a clearly, indisputably inferior model it pisses me right off. Luckily when I moved to Japan I found Vallejo paints in large supply. When I lived in Canada, I had never seen the brand. GW will never get a dime from me for their crappy screw top, we want you to buy more, more, more paint products. Actually, if you want to be a pal to your gaming group, take the initiative and actually call around town and track down a shop that sells an alternative paint. Just 10 minutes of research can seriously make a considerable positive impact on your experience as a hobbyist. I'm thinking that its the convenience of stopping in at a GW store that is the only redeeming trait associated with those products.

And Daniel, your letter is harsh. I say let 'em have it.

I'm waiting for GW to come up with some device to spot check minis at game cons so that they can not only require GW minis but also GW paint to play.

It's bollocks, not bullocks. Just so you know.

Mods please excuse the language.

AesSedai wrote:I will admit that when a business replaces an old model that works great with a clearly, indisputably inferior model it pisses me right off. Luckily when I moved to Japan I found Vallejo paints in large supply. When I lived in Canada, I had never seen the brand. GW will never get a dime from me for their crappy screw top, we want you to buy more, more, more paint products. Actually, if you want to be a pal to your gaming group, take the initiative and actually call around town and track down a shop that sells an alternative paint. Just 10 minutes of research can seriously make a considerable positive impact on your experience as a hobbyist. I'm thinking that its the convenience of stopping in at a GW store that is the only redeeming trait associated with those products.

And Daniel, your letter is harsh. I say let 'em have it.

...When they're replacing things within a business, they're keeping some bonehead in a job, and changing things for a reason. In regard to screw tops, it would seem, to make sure your paint dries out faster... going on from the "Paint Pot Story".

I'll be spending more than just 10 minutes researching, AesSedai. I'm hoping to get the bulk of my paint from a suitable supplier, and then just get the GW paints which are necessary.

Thanks for your words on the letter. I thought it was a little harsh too, but you don't often read about Jervis commenting on things like what is being described in this thread in his column, so perhaps now he will. Not likely. I'll let you all know if I get a response.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Million wrote:It's bollocks, not bullocks. Just so you know.

Mods please excuse the language.

Thanks.

Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flockalicious wrote:I'm waiting for GW to come up with some device to spot check minis at game cons so that they can not only require GW minis but also GW paint to play.

Nice! They could be a CSI-style of spot checkers.

...'Excuse me sir, we need to flake of a little piece of paint from your minature model, and put it in this vial. If it turns Vomit Brown you're in the clear'.

Ha-ha!

Daniel M.

You have 4 alternate, compatible ranges to choose from moreorless:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

Nod. I use my old-school GW paints, a few of the newer ones that I bought, and when I rep them I do so with a growing collection of Vallejo and Coat D'Arms and also get new colours from CDA and P3.

I don't waste my time or energy complaining about GW, I just vote with my wallet!

I see now just how passionate you are about paint pots. But to be honest, I think your letter is set to the wrong tone. When you start writing to someone and insult them they very quickly stop listening to you. Its called bullying and it doesn't get you very far in life.

The better way would be to make the letter not a personal attack against Jervis, but a reasonable outline of how you feel mistreated.

Seriously, I don't think its a spit in the face!

Well, GW havent used the screw tops in quite a while, they newer (2003) have black lids and are pop tops.

I have succumbed to the lure of cheaper/better paints as well. I for one cannot STAND the dropper bottles from vallejo, but am lucky that nearby store has the full range of p3 paints.

the p3 paints have the old gw style white plastic pop tops, have a great color range selection, plus you get 18ml compared to 12 ml from GW.. last but not least? about a dollar cheaper EACH.

That being said, I still buy SOME gw paints.. the new washes are INCREDIBLE, no shine when dry, and the Foundation series of paints are also very good for basecoating a model. So while I was a GW-Paint only guy, I am replacing every dried up pot I can with p3.

Good luck to ya.

s.j.mccartney wrote:I see now just how passionate you are about paint pots. But to be honest, I think your letter is set to the wrong tone. When you start writing to someone and insult them they very quickly stop listening to you. Its called bullying and it doesn't get you very far in life.

The better way would be to make the letter not a personal attack against Jervis, but a reasonable outline of how you feel mistreated.

Seriously, I don't think its a spit in the face!

I agree. Jervis is one of the few genuine hobby guys left at GW. He doesn't make the decisions about shafting people on the price of paint and he doesn't deserve a personal attack about it.

By all means complain to him but complain about the company not Jervis.

Like any company, GW is mostly interested in rising and falling revenues, but they have a difficulty connecting that to specific causes.

If you switch your paint purchases to a rival and tell them in a nice letter why you have done that, it might make a tiny bit of difference to their next paint strategy change.

TBH you as a veteran will have little impact. GW's business is built around giving teenagers a very simple wargame experience. Buy this model, paint Vomit Brown here, Food Poisoning Vomit Green here and Ulcer Vomit Red here and you have a finished model. It's paint by numbers, and there are lots of newbies out there who benefit from it.

There are several other ranges of paint out there which the others have listed for you.

I will mention artist's acrylics, which are available from any good graphic art shop and come in medium (pots) or heavy body (tubes). They need mixing with media to thin them down to wargame standard, but they are very very cheap for the amount of bulk you get. The names of course are completely different to GW but the actual colours are the same.

legoburner wrote:You have 4 alternate, compatible ranges to choose from moreorless:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

Thank you, legoburner.

Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

scipio.au wrote:
I don't waste my time or energy complaining about GW, I just vote with my wallet!

Wise move, thanks for sharing.

However, I used my energy to complain and have become educated in the process. I also now realize that it's not only I who feels like this. For instance, I wouldn't have known that you vote with your wallet, suggesting that it's always heavier than lighter when purchsing alternative-brand paint pots.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bubber wrote:Coat D'arms are the people who did GW originally & their colours match the GW range. You can even get a decent dark angles green that actually covers!
Also the pots are decent - I've still got some paint that's useable after 20 odd years!

Thanks for confirming some of the earlier views and literature through your own personal experiences. A valid confirmation and addition.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

s.j.mccartney wrote:I see now just how passionate you are about paint pots. But to be honest, I think your letter is set to the wrong tone. When you start writing to someone and insult them they very quickly stop listening to you. Its called bullying and it doesn't get you very far in life.

The better way would be to make the letter not a personal attack against Jervis, but a reasonable outline of how you feel mistreated.

Seriously, I don't think its a spit in the face!

Hi s.j.mccartney,

Whenever I find a worthy cause I become passionate about it, otherwise what's the point of following it through half-cocked?

I appreciate that you have identified the tone of my letter by reading it through. Out of all the members who have posted on this thread, I thought you would be one who would have taken the time to do so. What's more, is you took the time to comment and make a suggestion.

...One thing you may perhaps would not have known about me, is that I see myself as very much a letter writer - a letterman if you will. An experienced and formidable writer of letters, so much so that some of them have - in the past - set government policy, whilst others have gotten discarded into the garbage bin and consequently given the reader nightmares.

As an author writing is easy for me of late, and I am very much aware of the tone I select in any given letter... Like perhaps the note a musician would select to find their key.

You see, I didn't pretend to expect my letter to find him personally. More than that, it was also a way of releasing the frustration - concerning the issue - which had built-up in me throughout the day in question. The evidence of which is quite evident at the beginning of this thread, in fact. I was literally frothing at the corners of the mouth. Then, I began digging on the net, found the "Paint Pot Story", then was reassured that others felt and feel like me in the present and past through this thread, especially you saying that you shared my frustration early on in the thread was very welcoming -- and all these things started to assist me in purging my frustration - the final act of which was composing a second draft of the letter (above) and sending it off to Jervis.

I appreciate very much that you have taken the time to make these things heard, however I expect that the letter will likely be read by a junior GW employee (perhaps ambitious in that he/she is wanting to one day become editor of White Dwarf) who reads the letters Jervis receives, only for long enough to know which one of three piles it may belong too. I think the piles might look this:

(1.) Hate mail.
(2.) Love mail.
(3.) Free ideas we may use in the workshop.

'Love mail' may get passed on to another stage, in the way one would file a bulk of receipts.

So, painting Jervis in the worst possible light by setting a matching tone of bold, dark colors in my letter; and then uploading it for members to read here -- might have the most profound effect of the whole exercise; beyond me just purging my frustration and connecting with fellow members interested in the same awesome hobby. In essence, a valid confirmation that Jervis isn't interested in addressing matters such as these in his monthly column, but matters which likely have been borrowed from ideas present in letters from genuine (or innocent) fans of GW; fans which have not as yet learned of Uncle Jervis' wicked ways, perhaps.

So yeah, I was mistreated - but the nice guy in the GW store rectified the matter when I brought the pot back, and will have attributed the event to paint used for "in-store" usage.

I walked away frustrated, yes, but that has slowly been alleviated by these things I have made mention.

Nevertheless, if a reply is indeed provided by someone from GW, then I will let all of you know, by attributing a suitable title to my post. The response if forthcoming, will likely be a computer-generated - GW respects your view on paint pots but regrets something or rather, signed Uncle Jervis, and thanking me for taking the time to write. Ha-ha! Big business jokers.

Everything GW do has a business model or plan behind it. Simple! Jervis has just chosen to be the fraud component within this worldwide machine. Doesn't bother me much, I won't lose any sleep, I'll still play 40k, WFB, and WFRP. The only thing I won't do is buy citadel paints in large numbers. Heck, this whole exercise has taught me to look around for other things I may need to play these games mentioned, and that GW aren't the only word on - what are - superb game systems.

To me, it was a spit in the face. But don't worry, I have removed it now appropriately. Yes, the stink of his bad breath lingers, though.

Ha-ha!

Cheers,
Daniel M.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt Varnish wrote:Well, GW havent used the screw tops in quite a while, they newer (2003) have black lids and are pop tops.

I have succumbed to the lure of cheaper/better paints as well. I for one cannot STAND the dropper bottles from vallejo, but am lucky that nearby store has the full range of p3 paints.

the p3 paints have the old gw style white plastic pop tops, have a great color range selection, plus you get 18ml compared to 12 ml from GW.. last but not least? about a dollar cheaper EACH.

That being said, I still buy SOME gw paints.. the new washes are INCREDIBLE, no shine when dry, and the Foundation series of paints are also very good for basecoating a model. So while I was a GW-Paint only guy, I am replacing every dried up pot I can with p3.

Good luck to ya.

Thanks for your input, Matt.

All valid.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

s.j.mccartney wrote:I see now just how passionate you are about paint pots. But to be honest, I think your letter is set to the wrong tone. When you start writing to someone and insult them they very quickly stop listening to you. Its called bullying and it doesn't get you very far in life.

The better way would be to make the letter not a personal attack against Jervis, but a reasonable outline of how you feel mistreated.

Seriously, I don't think its a spit in the face!

I agree. Jervis is one of the few genuine hobby guys left at GW. He doesn't make the decisions about shafting people on the price of paint and he doesn't deserve a personal attack about it.

By all means complain to him but complain about the company not Jervis.

Like any company, GW is mostly interested in rising and falling revenues, but they have a difficulty connecting that to specific causes.

If you switch your paint purchases to a rival and tell them in a nice letter why you have done that, it might make a tiny bit of difference to their next paint strategy change.

TBH you as a veteran will have little impact. GW's business is built around giving teenagers a very simple wargame experience. Buy this model, paint Vomit Brown here, Food Poisoning Vomit Green here and Ulcer Vomit Red here and you have a finished model. It's paint by numbers, and there are lots of newbies out there who benefit from it.

There are several other ranges of paint out there which the others have listed for you.

I will mention artist's acrylics, which are available from any good graphic art shop and come in medium (pots) or heavy body (tubes). They need mixing with media to thin them down to wargame standard, but they are very very cheap for the amount of bulk you get. The names of course are completely different to GW but the actual colours are the same.

Hi Kilkrazy,

Unless you know Jervis personally (unlikely), what you think you know about him is just the image he and GW have painted for him/self by attributing him the "Standard Bearer" title and column in White Dwarf.

He is painted as this spiritual guide for the company, and so he is very much - for me - the company! Why? Because he is willing to be a spiritual face of the company. He is attributing his face to all things GW hobby! In my view, this makes him a marked man, and thus deserving this kind of scorn. What's more, is that I am using the foundation builders as a marker to point too, from where GW came from (begun) intially.

"GW's business is built around giving teenagers a very simple wargame experience." If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it's not -- and that it can be summarized in one succinct line -- is more evidence that my scorn was well-targeted. Thanks!

Why, you ask? Because...a real and genuine company like that which was built by the fore-fathers of GW - already mentioned earlier - was built around the notion of looking after all the players all the time. It was a true enterprise in every sense of the word. Now, it is a kind of machine which must eventually break down. That's what machines do, after all. It must become faulty, because the oils and lubricants which is the whole of the gaming community from veteran to newbie, is not being heard and taken seriously, equally.

Ha-ha!

Cheers,
Daniel Moszkowicz. (The Troll-King of Chatsitea.)

If you want to know a little more about me, Kilkrazy, you may wish to go here to learn more about what just happened to you:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284853.page

I like my Reaper, Game Color\Model Color paints. Just sick of GW product full stop. If it wasn't for the cool looking Eldar I wouldnt touch GW products at all.

If you're not into Blending and other techniques for painting and go more for the normal game standard paint job then you can use cheaper paints with the same outcome. Shop around and try things.

Check out Ral Partha paints.

Awesome, awesome coverage; color choices and can be bought in 12ml or 80ml (3oz size!!!). The smaller jars are .84GBP each (which is like 1.40 US) and the 3oz are around 3.50 US.

The only place that you can get them from is direct from Ral Partha but right now there site is down due to swtiching domains or something so no web orders. They might take phone orders. Not sure what shipping to Oz would be like. It's like $4 or so to the States but I've had to wait on average of 10 days from order processed to delivery to my door.

Daniel Moszkowicz wrote:
Unless you know Jervis personally (unlikely), what you think you know about him is just the image he and GW have painted for him/self by attributing him the "Standard Bearer" title and column in White Dwarf.

He is painted as this spiritual guide for the company, and so he is very much - for me - the company! Why? Because he is willing to be a spiritual face of the company. He is attributing his face to all things GW hobby! In my view, this makes him a marked man, and thus deserving this kind of scorn. What's more, is that I am using the foundation builders as a marker to point too, from where GW came from (begun) intially.

"GW's business is built around giving teenagers a very simple wargame experience." If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it's not -- and that it can be summarized in one succinct line -- is more evidence that my scorn was well-targeted. Thanks!

Why, you ask? Because...a real and genuine company like that which was built by the fore-fathers of GW - already mentioned earlier - was built around the notion of looking after all the players all the time. It was a true enterprise in every sense of the word. Now, it is a kind of machine which must eventually break down. That's what machines do, after all. It must become faulty, because the oils and lubricants which is the whole of the gaming community from veteran to newbie, is not being heard and taken seriously, equally.

Bravo , VERY well thought. Company image is everything.

Remember a few months ago apple did a campaign commercial on portraying microsoft as that nerdy glasses guy? on how dishonest MS is?
Then how did MS counter it? "Window is MY idea" as idea from window users? Now all the aggression is shifted from the MS guy onto normal consumers.
Apple have no other choice then to stop.

Company icon , image ... always a powerful tool.

For my White and Black I use Apple Barrel. There are only a couple of colors I use that are GW. Specificially Bleached Bone and the Metallics. Everything else I use is either P3 or Reaper. I've heard mixed reviews about Reaper but I only use their washes and Primer. I really love the P3 paints though. One of my favorite colors being Exile Blue (IIRC). And if you're going by price in the store about 20 cent cheaper than GW. Plus, the pots are better.

GW: Great, aside from the lids. $3.70
Reaper: superb, the primer is nigh on perfect and the washes work great also. $2.99
P3: My favorite thus far. Haven't used their Primer yet and when I do, I'll let you guys know what I think of it. (sif someone else hasn't already/ $3.50
Apple Barrel: pretty good. gotta water them down then just as good as GW paints. also cheaper n'hell. about $3.00 for about 12 oz of paint.

Ugh. Gaming primers. No offense but I refuse to pay $9-12 for something that is, IME, subpar to Krylon or Rustoleum or Duplicolor to something that costs $3.50-6 per.

OoieGoie wrote:I like my Reaper, Game Color\Model Color paints. Just sick of GW product full stop. If it wasn't for the cool looking Eldar I wouldnt touch GW products at all.

If you're not into Blending and other techniques for painting and go more for the normal game standard paint job then you can use cheaper paints with the same outcome. Shop around and try things.

Got it, thanks.

Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fateweaver wrote:Check out Ral Partha paints.

Awesome, awesome coverage; color choices and can be bought in 12ml or 80ml (3oz size!!!). The smaller jars are .84GBP each (which is like 1.40 US) and the 3oz are around 3.50 US.

The only place that you can get them from is direct from Ral Partha but right now there site is down due to swtiching domains or something so no web orders. They might take phone orders. Not sure what shipping to Oz would be like. It's like $4 or so to the States but I've had to wait on average of 10 days from order processed to delivery to my door.

Thanks, Fateweaver.

Definitely will check them out.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Daniel Moszkowicz wrote:
Unless you know Jervis personally (unlikely), what you think you know about him is just the image he and GW have painted for him/self by attributing him the "Standard Bearer" title and column in White Dwarf.

He is painted as this spiritual guide for the company, and so he is very much - for me - the company! Why? Because he is willing to be a spiritual face of the company. He is attributing his face to all things GW hobby! In my view, this makes him a marked man, and thus deserving this kind of scorn. What's more, is that I am using the foundation builders as a marker to point too, from where GW came from (begun) intially.

"GW's business is built around giving teenagers a very simple wargame experience." If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it's not -- and that it can be summarized in one succinct line -- is more evidence that my scorn was well-targeted. Thanks!

Why, you ask? Because...a real and genuine company like that which was built by the fore-fathers of GW - already mentioned earlier - was built around the notion of looking after all the players all the time. It was a true enterprise in every sense of the word. Now, it is a kind of machine which must eventually break down. That's what machines do, after all. It must become faulty, because the oils and lubricants which is the whole of the gaming community from veteran to newbie, is not being heard and taken seriously, equally.

Bravo , VERY well thought. Company image is everything.

Remember a few months ago apple did a campaign commercial on portraying microsoft as that nerdy glasses guy? on how dishonest MS is?
Then how did MS counter it? "Window is MY idea" as idea from window users? Now all the aggression is shifted from the MS guy onto normal consumers.
Apple have no other choice then to stop.

Company icon , image ... always a powerful tool.

Agreed!

Thanks for showing us another example.

Cheers,
Daniel M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:For my White and Black I use Apple Barrel. There are only a couple of colors I use that are GW. Specificially Bleached Bone and the Metallics. Everything else I use is either P3 or Reaper. I've heard mixed reviews about Reaper but I only use their washes and Primer. I really love the P3 paints though. One of my favorite colors being Exile Blue (IIRC). And if you're going by price in the store about 20 cent cheaper than GW. Plus, the pots are better.

GW: Great, aside from the lids. $3.70
Reaper: superb, the primer is nigh on perfect and the washes work great also. $2.99
P3: My favorite thus far. Haven't used their Primer yet and when I do, I'll let you guys know what I think of it. (sif someone else hasn't already/ $3.50
Apple Barrel: pretty good. gotta water them down then just as good as GW paints. also cheaper n'hell. about $3.00 for about 12 oz of paint.

Thanks for the itemised account. All very valid, and I appreciate it!

With the USD/AUD exchange rate the way it is, it makes sense for me to even buy GW paints from the USofA, if I had to buy GW paints.

...Now I know I don't have too, with the wealth of information left by members, here.

Cheers,
Daniel M.