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Exactly what it says on the tin. I know it sounds a little..."lame", lets say (as do most of my ideas ), but hear me out. I'm sorely tempted by DE for my next army, but am also driven by that urge every man should feel to scream Blood for the Blood god at the top of his voice like a frothing maniac. So I thought, why not combine the two? After all, we know Eldar can worship Slaanesh, why not the other chaos powers?
I've yet to start working on any intricasies of a backstory yet, but I just want to check its not a completely idiotic concept before I start.

Also, if anyone can remember what metal Khorne is associated with, I'd be most gracious.

Smouldering black iron and brass. Oh, and Khaine is an aspect of Khorne, sooo....

Ah, interesting point Nurglitch. So, if all else fails I could say they were just following what they thought be the god Khaine?

Also, thanks for remembering it was Brass .

Well as far as I know there isn't any proof about the Khaine = Khorne theory, there are a lot of opinions on both sides.

Acording to lexicanum there are still eldar living on their old home worlds which are now inside the eye of terror and are called crone worlds. They are basically daemon worlds but are inhabited by eldar instead of humans. If there are khorne worshiping eldar thats where they will be.

Blood for the Bloody Handed God! Skulls for the Iron Throne of Khaine!

I wouldn't say "when all else fails". The Eldar may have a different religion when it comes to Khorne/Khaine, but the worship of the different aspects of Khaine is the foundation of the Aspect Warrior Shrines. Think of it like how Moslems regard Jesus as a Prophet and call him "Isa", and the Christians regard Jesus as an aspect of the Triune Godhead and call him "Jesus". Khorne is the Daemon worshipped by infidels and lesser species. Those of the elect, the Eldar, worship the God Khaela Mensha Khaine.

Speaking of which, I'd imagine that Ahra, the Father of Scorpions who Fell to Chaos, is a Khorne worshipper who was excommunicated for his ecumenical tendencies rather than his bloodthirstiness.

I think that Khorne=Khaine theory is not valid since Khaine existed for millions of years before Khorne formed in the middle ages.Eldar which would worship Khorne would be definitely form the Crone worlds.

IvanTih wrote:I think that Khorne=Khaine theory is not valid since Khaine existed for millions of years before Khorne formed in the middle ages.Eldar which would worship Khorne would be definitely form the Crone worlds.

Foolish mortal... time is not linear in the warp.

/possession

As with slaanesh being "created" by the eldar khorne already existed before the middle ages and has always existed as time doesnt work like it does here when in the warp, neither does space or any of our euclidean dimensions.

They say time isn't linear in the warp but the amount of influence a god has outside of the warp is. If they could exist at any time the eldar would have been destroyed by slaanesh 10000s of year before the fall.

4M2A wrote:They say time isn't linear in the warp but the amount of influence a god has outside of the warp is. If they could exist at any time the eldar would have been destroyed by slaanesh 10000s of year before the fall.

Yeah in realspace they are constrained by time, but the point was khorne and khaine can be the same thing as neither are bound by time in their home turf.

In the early history of eldar the gods existed in real space. The often came down and visited eldar. So this is Khaine walking around before Khorne was even born.

4M2A wrote:In the early history of eldar the gods existed in real space. The often came down and visited eldar. So this is Khaine walking around before Khorne was even born.

Not sure your grasping what i just said, in the warp khorne has always existed and always will.

Just because the khorne (read as human god) side of khaine/khorne wasnt seen until after the khaine side doesnt mean they cant be the same thing.

Personally i think the eldar gods are all old ones but the argument that khaine came first thus cant be khorne makes no sense.

I know this position will probably get flamed but I think that much of what was implemented in the Chaos codex via icons would work in the upcoming Dark Eldar codex. I think the historical Dark Eldar fluff could stand an overhaul. I can see Dark Eldar who dabble in poisons being a cult of Nurgle. Dark Eldar who seek to hone their psychic powers could worship Tzeantch. Dark Eldar who seek martial perfection could worship Slanesh.

I actually see Khorn as the only chaos god that Dark Eldar would NOT worship because of one of Khorn’s dominant tenants; Khorn cares not from where the blood flows, only that it does. I tend to think of dark Eldar as too self interested to be drawn to such a philosophy.

Who said fantasy came before 40k? In 2nd edition you could have both types of characters existing side by side.

incarna wrote:I know this position will probably get flamed but I think that much of what was implemented in the Chaos codex via icons would work in the upcoming Dark Eldar codex. I think the historical Dark Eldar fluff could stand an overhaul. I can see Dark Eldar who dabble in poisons being a cult of Nurgle. Dark Eldar who seek to hone their psychic powers could worship Tzeantch. Dark Eldar who seek martial perfection could worship Slanesh.

I actually see Khorn as the only chaos god that Dark Eldar would NOT worship because of one of Khorn’s dominant tenants; Khorn cares not from where the blood flows, only that it does. I tend to think of dark Eldar as too self interested to be drawn to such a philosophy.

VERY strongly disagree here... chaos eldar would just be bland as we already have chaos demons and marines, what does having chaos elves add to the game? surely dark eldar being evil elves that eat your soul but arnt chaos is good for variety?

Also the dark eldar care not where the souls come from, only that they get to eat them to stay alive.

Khaine is not Khorne. Khaine existed before Khorne, Khaine is an old one, Khaine is an enemy of the Chaos Gods.

corpsesarefun wrote:VERY strongly disagree here... chaos eldar would just be bland as we already have chaos demons and marines, what does having chaos elves add to the game? surely dark eldar being evil elves that eat your soul but arnt chaos is good for variety?

Also the dark eldar care not where the souls come from, only that they get to eat them to stay alive.

I understand that many long-time Dark Eldar fans view “Chaos Eldar” as heresy, and the codex is already written so, unless the idea HAPPENS to be incorporated into the upcoming codex, it’s pointless to speculate about what should or shouldn’t be done. However, I think as gamers we have the luxury of viewing the 40k universe from outside itself. Any being/culture that exists WITHIN the 40k universe would likely develop a religious pantheon. Dark Eldar, like most worshipers of chaos (and arguably worshipers of ANY deity) do so out of self interest.

If you’re a Dark Eldar and Pappa Nurgle offers to reveal to you secrets of the most insidious poisons and he ACTUALLY DOES (because, in the 40k universe, the chaos gods actually do influence the universe in an observable way), than you might see building a Nurgle based cult as valuable to your goals/survival. Conversely, Nurgle would likely view a cult to himself within the Dark Eldar culture as being valuable in the same way he would view any cult to himself. Thus, he might actively cultivate such a cult.

I’m not looking at the issue from a flavor/dynamism/variety perspective. The idea simply makes sense. If it were to be incorporated into the fluff (which I doubt), I’m certain it could be done so in a flavorful and enriching way.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ph34r wrote:Khaine is not Khorne. Khaine existed before Khorne, Khaine is an old one, Khaine is an enemy of the Chaos Gods.

I will point out here that we read the fluff largely through the eyes of characters who exist within the 40k universe and those interpretations are as flawless as our own interpretation of theology… which is to say, largely subject to cultural/socioeconomic/political bias.

From the perspective of a Buddhist (Eldar for example), Christian (Imperium for example), and Muslim (Ork for example), Buddha, God, and Allah (Khaine, Khorn, Gork) are completely separate entities – who may even struggle against one another (as was common within the Greek and Roman pantheon). But from a practical perspective, how is it that we can be certain that those spiritual entities are not ACTUALLY the same entity? (If they do, in fact exist)

Since we're talking in the realm of "could" we can pretty safely say that yes an eldar "could" worship anything you can dream up. Are there khorne worshipping eldar in the fluff? I haven't personally seen any, but maybe someone can snag a snippet that at least hints at it.

Could khaine be an aspect of khorne? Sure. Is he an aspect of khorne? I haven't seen any real evidence of this other than similarities between their methods and ideals.

I don't see why this wouldn't make sense. If someone wants to say you can only follow existing fluff, I'd like to know how that works when the fluff begins to contradict itself.

Is Khorne the same entity as Khaine? I don't know.

Does Khorne hate Slaanesh? Yes. Would Khorne offer to protect the Eldar from Slaanesh AND love stealing worshipers away from his rival? This is why you would have Dark Eldar worshipping Khorne, I've thought about it myself a lot when I play DE because my colors are Blood Red and Black.

Slaanesh to DE: "Worship me or I will eat your soul! Maim kill and torture in my name"

Khorne to DE: "WORSHIP ME OR I WILL BEAT SLAANESHS FACE INTO A FINE MIST BEFORE I EAT YOUR SOUL! YELL AT EVERYTHING INSTEAD OF TALKING IN A NORMAL MANNER AND MAKE THINGS BLEED...A LOT...BECAUSE I LIKE IT!"

Highly unlikely they'd worship Tzeentch to strengthen psykic powers since being a psyker in the Commoragh is to suffer a fate worse than death. If they did that, it would be a group living elsewhere so they didn't get the rest of the kabals coming down on them on mass.

Khorne is more likely, they do take pleasure in slaughter and screams, have been known to take trophies and hold respect for warrior attributes and skills. Still think they'd need to conceal it, DE are understandably uncomfortable about chaos worship. Either way 'save me from She Who Thirsts' would be a massive requirement and the best shackle against them.

I actually remember reading a piece of fluff that when Slaanesh bested Khaine and was about to feast on him Khorne appeared leveling his sword at Slaanesh claiming Khaine as his property. The ensuing battle tore Khaine asunder and is the cause of his current state. This may have been retconned though so I'm not sure.

There is also fluff about Khorne having rings on his fingers made out of the skulls of rival war gods. This sort of lends credence to the above story as Khorne would have a history of killing/besting/absorbing other gods of war.

I td;dr'd some of this thread, but in short:

The Chaos Gods and Eldar Gods cannot be synonymous. The Eldar Gods are probably Old Ones, as that's who created the Eldar and the Eldar believe that their Gods created them. Furthermore, the Chaos and Eldar Gods fought against each other. That makes their being the same thing impossible.

Now, back on topic... it's not so much that Eldar couldn't worship Khorne as it is that they're above it. Khorne, for all his power, is still a Warp-entity born of the primitive anger of Mon-Keigh. From an Eldar perspective, that's like a human worshipping a spirit conjured by orangutans.

If a spirit conjured by orang-utans could do what the Dark Gods do I'd at least consider it?

One can argue if a single Eldar can be corrupted to worship a Chaos God (I would say no), but a whole army is impossible.

And about crone worlds: Their population was wiped out during the fall. One might argue if some Eldar dared to return afterwards, but they are not Chaos Eldar.

I think people are ALWAYS forgetting that it is rare that one deliberately falls into servitude of the dark gods. Its generally a raw deal, no one smart deliberately chooses it.

Eldar are know for their extreme desires.

The Chaos gods are extreme mono emotions.

So far match made in heaven..

If an great Dark Eldar warrior say was completely betrayed, lost all standing and any chance of regaining it, yet still had his life. And perhaps dedicated/vowed (himself) to bloodshed to kill those who erred him and others who have what he has lost. Who's entire personality is soo consumed by hate that he has become a cliche bad guy. Then could this warrior not slowly fall to Khorne. And could he not through his amazing ability at killing people inspire others. And together could they not form a Vengeance/Hate Cabal?

I think they could.

Well, we have to see how Dark Eldar background has been rewritten.

But don't forget that the basis for both Eldar and Dark Eldar culture is to fight being consumed by Chaos forces. As every daemon leeches to eat a rare and delicous Eldar soul. Craftworld Eldar learn as small kids that Chaos is THE NEMESIS of all Eldar, all training and all technology has its foremost function to fight Chaos corruption. Therefore you will find no case of Chaos Eldar in the Codex, not to speak of a whole army that accidentily worships its Nemesis.

If there are chaos eldar on Crone worlds then they are susceptible.

40k is grey there rarely black and white. Most questions can be answered with a maybe.

Owain wrote:
The Chaos Gods and Eldar Gods cannot be synonymous. The Eldar Gods are probably Old Ones, as that's who created the Eldar and the Eldar believe that their Gods created them. Furthermore, the Chaos and Eldar Gods fought against each other. That makes their being the same thing impossible.
.

The old ones are DEAD! DEAD I SAY!

Well, for the fluff of the army, I would probably do this:

The Eldar craftworld (insert eldar craftworld name here) was one of the world to be sucked into the warp. The Eldar cried out in extreme anguish and rage at what happened, enough so that Khorne heard their pleas. He offered them a choice; be swallowed by his brother god or serve him. They accepted, and became Eldar devoted to Khorne, freeing them from Slaaneshes feeding.


Oh, and technically, Slaanesh is a God of the Eldar, because the Eldar created him.

Klawz wrote:The old ones are DEAD! DEAD I SAY!

The old ones? like Cthulhu and shub niggurath and Has- *sploosh*