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I have 6 GK Terminators in a Crusader with Stern and a Grand Master.

Terminators have Holo and Incinerator.

Grand Master has Hammerhand and a Psychic Hood.

Do I make the Terminators Stern's retinue or the Grand Master's?

Obviously the GM is a better IC.

So I either protect those points...or let him go off and be awesome while defending my easier to kill HQ Stern.

Your looking for Whose there, not who is.

Why thank you good sir.

I think the question to ask first is, " is putting all this stuff into one army overkill?" I think the answer is probably yes.

And another question might be, "Is hammerhand any use for a character who already has a strength 6 force weapon?" to which the answer is definitely no.

Then my question for you is, do any of those terminators have thunderhammers? If not, one 100-point dreadnought will be able to bog them forever.

But to answer the original question, there's a third option, and that's to split the GKTs into two retinues and give one to each character. Especially effective if you have another LR Crusader for them to ride in. If you need to scrape up extra points, make your GM into a normal captain.

Or if you want to keep them together for some reason, then (if I'm remembering right that Stern also has holocaust) you want to send Stern off by himself so you can hit two units with holocaust and don't have to roll saves for your own guys getting hit by it.

Not overkill at all...its a 2500 pt list.

Hammerhand gives a GM 6 S8 attacks against Armor. Worth 10 points.

Thunderhammers...psh...do you understand Grey Knights? Maybe...a thunderhammer. Either way that Dread is toast.

Can't fit another LR variant in and two retinues can't jump in one tank.

LD 10...worrying about Perils is something people do too often...I have only gotten perils in game once...on a leadershup 8 inquisitor.

And Stern can reroll if need be.

Yeah, not talking about perils. Talking about the saves that your models have to make when the holocaust template hits them (it's models--friend and foe, right? Or am I not remembering that correctly?)

Yes, one thunder hammer per GKT unit. In case of dreads.

I'll have to reconsider hammerhand. It's like a thunderhammer (which would mean you wouldn't need one, unless a psychic hood stops it).

Right, you do Stern with 3 GKT retinue (with one thunderhammer) and your other GKT hero with a 3GKT retinue (with another thunderhammer) and buy your second crusader with the points you save demoting your GM to a captain...

but then only stern has a force weapon.

GKGMs are worth it for that.

Stern is great because he has hammerhand, holocaust, force weapon, and one less wound for the same cost as a GKGM.

Holocaust doesn't affect friendly models IIRC

one thing worth considering is putting Evisorators on justicars for anti-tank duties.

Justicars can't purchase Evisorators...they be in Power Armor and can't change weaponry, RAW.

You can buy them Artificer armour then you can buy stuff from the weapons list.

Sanctjud wrote:Justicars can't purchase Evisorators...they be in Power Armor and can't change weaponry, RAW.

the asterisk next to the eviserator icon says Only inquisitors, lord inquisitors and Grey Knights in PA.

But Grey Knights in Power Armor who have access to the armory can only choose wargear and not weaponry...they may not choose to replace their weapons when in power armor.

Now...if you go the route wizard12 has suggested, then feel free.

Sanctjud:

The terminology used is "The Justicar may be given any equipment allowed from the Daemonhunters Armoury."

versus for the inquisitor (who we KNOW has to be able to buy weapons): "Options: An Inquisitor Lord may be given any equipment allowed from the Daemonhunter Armoury."

Having this been said, I could have sworn that it worked the way you describe, however, I can't seem to find anything actually contributing to why I had that misconception.

Yep, checked codex and holocaust is "friend or foe." Also it's the old 4+ partial hit template rules, so gotta ask if that's really worth it (except on Stern where it's free anyway).

Hammerhand does look like a good alternative to a thunderhammer--more attacks, and at initiative versus vehicles. The major drawbacks I can see are (1) an IC can be picked out for instakill by a dread in HtH if he fails to kill it, wheras a thunderhammer terminator can't, (2) the way the rule is written, if you use it, then are charged by somebody in the following player turn, you're stuck fighting with hammerhand instead of your nemesis weapon for that phase and (3) it costs 10 points more than a thunderhammer (except for stern, who gets it free).

A single landraider at 2500 points? The original question doesn't matter much, then, since the whole unit is going to be walking in turn 2 anyway, and probably dead from shooting by turn 3 or 4.

OH oh oh, wait til I get home
Nah, I'll see when I get home, but I think the line is actually in the introductory paragraph to the armory.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yep, checked codex and holocaust is "friend or foe." Also it's the old 4+ partial hit template rules, so gotta ask if that's really worth it (except on Stern where it's free anyway).

Hammerhand does look like a good alternative to a thunderhammer--more attacks, and at initiative versus vehicles. The major drawbacks I can see are (1) an IC can be picked out for instakill by a dread in HtH if he fails to kill it, wheras a thunderhammer terminator can't, (2) the way the rule is written, if you use it, then are charged by somebody in the following player turn, you're stuck fighting with hammerhand instead of your nemesis weapon for that phase and (3) it costs 10 points more than a thunderhammer (except for stern, who gets it free).

A single landraider at 2500 points? The original question doesn't matter much, then, since the whole unit is going to be walking in turn 2 anyway, and probably dead from shooting by turn 3 or 4.

Holocaust...just don't put it over your models...duh.

Retinue solves the being picked out of CC.

And not to worry...I will be taking demolishers.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yep, checked codex and holocaust is "friend or foe." Also it's the old 4+ partial hit template rules, so gotta ask if that's really worth it (except on Stern where it's free anyway).

I'd pay 20 points for a S5 large blast in the middle of a melee combat. Just gotta be careful about how you position the blast so as to hit as few of your guys and as many of theirs. Against even numbers of Nobz with PK, I just say nuke everyone and watch the 2+ beat out their 4+.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
Hammerhand does look like a good alternative to a thunderhammer--more attacks, and at initiative versus vehicles. The major drawbacks I can see are (1) an IC can be picked out for instakill by a dread in HtH if he fails to kill it, wheras a thunderhammer terminator can't, (2) the way the rule is written, if you use it, then are charged by somebody in the following player turn, you're stuck fighting with hammerhand instead of your nemesis weapon for that phase and (3) it costs 10 points more than a thunderhammer (except for stern, who gets it free).

All good points except 1 isn't always true. Technically if you're using a retinue of terminators (which you ARE, right... right?), then unless I'm terribly mistaken, you can't single out the character from the retinue until they are all dead. Also, I never noticed the players next turn part of Hammerhand. That will give me some pause next time I use it.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
A single landraider at 2500 points? The original question doesn't matter much, then, since the whole unit is going to be walking in turn 2 anyway, and probably dead from shooting by turn 3 or 4.

/agree wholeheartedly. Best be bringing quite a bit of IST and a couple Dreadnaughts otherwise any Tau/IG will be wiping you out from miles away.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, so it's actually an SM list then... Well, to go back to the purpose of the OP, I'd hide Stern in the Termie Squad and let the GKGM go melt faces off on his own. Preferably by finding the one thing in the enemy army that has EW and then bull rushing it much to your opponent's chagrin.

ductvader wrote:
Retinue solves the being picked out of CC.

Right, but your original question was about attaching the retinue to one of them and not to the other. So the one without a retinue can be picked out--thus the argument for giving them both retinues. Duh. :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yep, checked codex and holocaust is "friend or foe." Also it's the old 4+ partial hit template rules, so gotta ask if that's really worth it (except on Stern where it's free anyway).

I'd pay 20 points for a S5 large blast in the middle of a melee combat. Just gotta be careful about how you position the blast so as to hit as few of your guys and as many of theirs. Against even numbers of Nobz with PK, I just say nuke everyone and watch the 2+ beat out their 4+.

Less of a problem for the GKT *unit* with the power, since they can position the template using any model, versus a character like Stern with the power, who might have to hit many of your own guys depending where he winds up. That's why I originally recommended Stern running off by himself rather than the GM--if Stern and his retinue are both casting holocausts in the same HtH fight, there's a lot of potential for collateral damage.

Potential...eh...maybe if you're not paying attention to how you're moving.

But when you're using GK Terminators...you should be fairly used to assaulting and know how to go about it.

You say it as simple as:
Opponents should be faily used to denying assaults and know how to go about versus GKTs.

Having options to place the holocost template is much better than not having options.

Things never go as smoothly as one wants it to go, all the time.

Yeah, I give up. Not sure why the OP was asking for advice when he apparently already had all the answers.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yeah, I give up. Not sure why the OP was asking for advice when he apparently already had all the answers.

To demonstrate and proclaim his superiority to us pleb's, of course!

No...I was simply answering all of the side questions generated by this post.

I still don't know who's worth protecting.

GrandMaster, cause torrent of fire can still sort of 'snipe' characters in a unit.

In addition... I might be a stickler, but the Title says "Who is retinue?" with that placement of the apostrophe...

Sanctjud wrote:
In addition... I might be a stickler, but the Title says "Who is retinue?" with that placement of the apostrophe...

Are you sure? I could have sworn he was talking about Grandmaster Who, to which I would nod and say "Exactly!".

Dr. Grandmaster Who is the full name mister!

If I give the Grand Master an Incinerator does that change anything?

Yes... it means he's armed with an Incinerator...
I think it is a step down from a psycannon, even if the Incinerator is cheaper.

The list needs a bit more on the stonger shooting side, rather than the blinged out H. Flamer.
With the psycannon you can even try out slogging.

Sanctjud wrote:Yes... it means he's armed with an Incinerator...
I think it is a step down from a psycannon, even if the Incinerator is cheaper.

The list needs a bit more on the stonger shooting side, rather than the blinged out H. Flamer.
With the psycannon you can even try out slogging.

True...while I like the Hammer to face method a LRC brings...I hear Shooty Terminators aren't bad.

Hammerhand is totally worth it. If you come across armor (which is always) or a high T monstrous creature with an invulnerable save, the extra strength is very useful.

Shooty grey knight termies are very tough to kill.

shrouding plus a 2+ and 5++ make the termies very hard to kill. and they can pump out 6 Str6 Ap4 shots downrange(3 of which are BS5) and when the enemy gets close the can add 6-8 stormbolter shots.