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I just got into Warhammer 40k and I started off with a Chaos Daemon kill team while I try to figure out which army I'd like to build. I don't understand all of the rules yet, and none the folks I've met at my local Games Workshop play chaos deamons or know much about how they work. I've heard mixed calls on how Daemonic Assault works in Kill Teams, and I haven't really found any definitive answer online yet.

According to the The Chaos Daemon codex, Daemons always deploy via daemonic assault, even if the mission says otherwise. But some people say the kill team mission overrules the codex's overruling, so Deamons deploy as normal. Is there an official ruling on this?

The codex overrides the mission rules, as the Codex rules are more Specific than the General Kill Team rules.

I see this as quite the bad thing for daemons as each of their guys has to deepstrike seperately. That is untill you see the opponents list is made of nothing but a bloodthirster (or maybe more, I don't know the points)

Cannot take hq in kill teams...

...I would assume you do it as normal, make twon groups treating each model as a full unit for grouping purposes.

Just my opinion.

I'd say Demons should deploy as per the Kill Team rules.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:I'd say Demons should deploy as per the Kill Team rules.

As do I, kill team battles have tons of terrain and this means with a bad scatter you have a 1 in six chance on losing your guys, once you have lost half your men it's down hill from there.

Specific does override general, but in this case the BM book explicitly states that no models enter via DS even if they normally would and even if they normally 'always start in reserve'

But then you have their codex rule saying they ALWAYS enter via deepstrike, even if the mission says they cannot.

Mission beats rules, Codex beats mission, mission beats scissors...

On a serious note, I'd say that Daemons always deply as per Daemonic Incursion...what with them being Daemons.

Daemons ALWAYS and MUST use Daemonic Assault. You can't deploy them because they are warp beings, that arrive without warning.

Kill Teams as a game type isn't written well enough to use hardcore RAW. Daemonic Assault in these games would basically make the Demon player auto-lose, so a house rule to make them deploy normally isn't out of the question.

i'd say codex over rule book always

in the codex it say ever if they would not otherwise be allowed

The codex has a specific rule for that specific army, which overrides the Battle Missions which have a rule for ALL armys.

Specific > General.

You could say that the Battle Mission deployments are more specific than the Daemon codex. There are a few missions that specify that Daemons arrive through Daemonic Assault (just their racial missions, I think), but all the others don't, implying that Daemons are supposed to deploy normally.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:You could say that the Battle Mission deployments are more specific than the Daemon codex. There are a few missions that specify that Daemons arrive through Daemonic Assault (just their racial missions, I think), but all the others don't, implying that Daemons are supposed to deploy normally.

Irrelevant what the other missions say.

Battle missions outline rules for ALL ARMIES. Guess what is more specific - ALL armies or just one?

Essenti9ally evidence of lack of redundancy is not evidence of anything.

The Daemon codex outlines rules for ALL MISSIONS. Guess what is more specific - ALL missions or just one?

All missions affecting ALL armies or ALL missions affecting ONE army?
Keep plugging, you arent being convincing.

Thank you for all the responses! If it helps the discussion for those who don't have the Chaos Daemon codex, it states: "All of the units in the army always start the game in reserve, even in missions that do not normally allow this rule to be used." Hence my confusion..it seemed pretty clear, until my first ever opponent said that it didn't apply in kill teams, which is a mission type. I suppose it will be up to my opponent or the house rules of the store/club? It just seems difficult to build a kill team when a major deciding factor of how to build my team is inconsistent. If daemonic assault is allowed, I'd continue with my all Khorne daemon team. If it's not, I'm thinking I'm going to have to look into some Pink Horrors to lay down some cover fire.

I originally built a team of 10 bloodletters with one chaos icon, assuming they deploy via demonic assault. I've changed it up to 10 bloodletters and a Bloodcrusher when they're deploying as normal.

I've played two games only so far; one game with them deploying as normal, and a second game with them being allowed to arrive via daemonic assault. Both times were against Space Marines. In the "Deploy as Normal" game, my melee based group got cut to ribbons by gunfire and lost to a failed leadership check before more than 2 of my guys could get into close combat. So much for Fearless! Being a newbie, I thought this would save me from having to roll off and make up for no shooting units. I didn't understand Leadership versus Morale rolls.

But in the second game, my opponent allowed Daemonic Assault, and it did not result in an auto-lose. There were some deep strike accidents, but it wasn't as devastating as I thought it would be, and saved me from sitting around charging into gunfire. I lost more trying to close into assault range than I did from deep striking in. For the first half of the battle the marines were cleaning up, but then all of my guys finally deployed and my Bloodcrusher came out, the tables turned, and I won with some lucky leadership rolls.

I haven't played enough to really judge how balanced daemonic assault is in kill teams, but I as hoping an answer to this rule could help me figure out how to build a competitive team.

I reread the Battle Mission entry and I have to back Nosferatu on this one. The Battle Mission book does not have specific language relating to Daemons other than 'no reserves' and the Daemons book specifically overrides this.

Codex overrules. I use Marbo and he always sneaks in thanks to his specific special rule.

Just to avoid listening to the "Specific > General" argument devolve into an argument akin to the number of angels can fit on a pin head, it's actually a very simple argument.

Kill Teams doesn't allow reserves because it says that all the models have to be placed on the table. You'll note that in the previously supplied quote, Daemonic Assault applies even in missions which don't allow reserves. Therefore, Daemonic Assault wins because it specifically says that the Daemonic Assault rule (and the associated reserve rules) are used even in missions that don't allow the reserves rule to be used.

The same is going to hold true for Lictors, and Mycetic Spore pods because of the (paraphrasing) "even if the mission doesn't allow it" style language. In order to circumvent such rules, the mission would have to specify something like "Even if the unit or army has a special rule requiring or allowing it to be in reserves, all units must be deployed on the table."

The only time they don't start in 'must' reserve is if a House Rule is made a la:
-between two players who talk it out.
-TO's.

There be a tourney in my area, they house ruled the Daemons setting up as normal...for better or for worse.