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Entering the ard boyz tournament, please review my list/suggest potential changes. And please, for the love of god, don't mention things like 'leafblowers' or other internet gimmick lists...

Also, no suggestions of falcons/fire prisms. I don't own those models, nor do I care to.

HQ
Prince Yriel = 155 (ride w/ fire dragon squad))
Edrad = 210 (ride w/ WG)

Elites
5x Fire Dragons + Exarch w/ dragons breath flamer = 92
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140
5x Fire Dragons + Exarch w/ dragons breath flamer = 92
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140
5x Wraithguard = 175
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140

Troops
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135

Heavy
5x Dark Reapers + Exarch w/ Tempest Launcher, Fast Shot = 227
Wave Serpent w/ bright lance, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 155
3x Warwalkers w/ 2x scatterlasers = 180

Total = 2486

I like the list as a whole but there are some questions:

What are you hoping for Yriel to achieve?

Why WG instead of a third Dragon squad? Drop the exarch in the dragon squad.

Why reapers, you could get even more WWs. Which are actually good as opposed to the expensive reapers

My take one a 2.5k Eldar list would be something like this:

HQ:280
Eldrad = 210

Autarch = 70

Troops:975
5xDA = 60
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDA = 60
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDA = 60
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDA = 60
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDA = 60
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

Elites:485
5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

5xDragons = 80
Serpent (Scatter+Cannon+Stones) = 135

Heavy:600
3xWalkers (Scatter) = 180

3xWalkers (EML) = 210

3xWalkers (EML) = 210

Total = 2500


Automatically Appended Next Post:
80 str 6 shots and 12 str 8 shots and 15 melta guns

Yriel is just a cc beast for me really, I've had a lot of luck running him into a marine command squad or somesuch and using the eye of doom to eliminate it, etc.

Wraithguard are there because (to me) they are better at dealing with high toughness high wound monstrous creatures (instant death on a 6) as well as things like a squad of carnifexi than the fire dragons are. Also... I don't have a third squad of fire dragon minis...

Reapers because I have had a lot of luck with them (especially wiping out units of marines), and I dont have more warwalkers.

I actually like your list better, unfortunately, I just can't do it. I already have to buy 4 more wave serpents to meet the 8 required for my list. I simply do not (and will not) hav the money to buy another squad of firedragons and another 6 warwalkers.

Ok, while just making minor adjustment to you list what I would change would be to give the reaper Exarch Crack shot, 2 shots re rolling to wound and ignoring cover is much better than 3 plain shots.

Down grade the dragon exarchs to regular dragons.

That will give you enough pts for a Warlock in the WG squad with enhance (or possibly conceal) and a spear.

No, I prefer fast shot. I used to purchase both fast shot and crack shot for the exarch... I found myself never using crack shot once, because in most cases whatever I was shooting at wasn't in area terrain, and thus I ignored the cover they would normally be recieving.

As for the warlock in the WG squad, I don't really see the point of it.

Dragon exarchs will be eliminated if I can be convinced of a better use of those points. Really though, i have never had a situation with my fire dragons where I wished I had one more melta gun shot. The flamer gives the unit some capability vs. infantry when I come up against a horde situation.

All the hull-mount shuricannons seem a bit pointless to me. You have them on the EML serpents, which is a smart move, but on the scatter serps? How often do you really think they will be firing? Clearly your intention is to be very maneuvery since you also shelled out for the spirit stones.

My suggestion, just maybe to try in practice games before the tournament, is dumping the Reapers altogether, as well as the Dragon exarchs, swap out the Wraithguard for another dragon squad, and using the points you save from all of that for an awful lot more scatter walkers (or even shricannon walkers if the points get tight). That way you can mount up your avengers serpents too with EML. You'll have plenty of heavy dakka from the Warwalkers, and let the twin EMLs from the 8 (!!) serpents do the heavier AT work.

One last thing, I really don't think Yriel is necessary either as you are clearly not running a cc list and that is where he excells. A Doomseer or a Guideseer (or actually both with spirit stones) could really help out. Much cheaper and IMO much more handy. That way you can run 9 scatterwalkers, 3 drop n pop dragon squads, loads of guided EML/shurican against doomed targets, and still plenty of scoring DA squads to just hang out in their transports staying out of harms way until endgame.

Eldrad's repositioning ability along with the Warwalkers scout move makes for a really nice first turn jump. So yeah, just my $0.02 worth. I'm no genius, but those are just some ideas to try. Good luck.

Truthfully, I never fire the shuriken cannons on the scatter serpents. Unfortunately I built the models with the cannons glued on, and in order to follow the WYSIWYG rules I have to purchase them. Likewise, I already have 2 serpents with scatterlasers glued on and 1 with bright lance glued on. Not much I can do about that unless you can offer me a suggestion that doesnt involve a lot of remodelling and repainting.

You're right about Yriel, I'll probably end up dropping him.

If someone can come up with a good alternative to the reapers that wont cost me an arm and a leg I cant afford to lose, i'll drop them too.

But again, I cant afford to purchase another 6 warwalkers, so thats not an option for me.

The only other models I currently have available to me are about 20 pathfinders, 10 warpspiders (incl exarch), a jetbike autarch, and a full sized jetbike seercouncil.

Hate to say it but lots of holes.

Underslug Cannons: Is it worth it for 3 S6 shots at BS3 to force your serpent within 24" range, 10 more points, and moving at 6"?

Reapers: If your marine opponent is smart he will will be in area terrain, also the big benefit of crack shot is also rerolling to-wounds. S4 is a 50/50 shot, not impressive for the cost of the exarch and weapon, but rerolling to wound and ensuring no cover bumps it up to fantastic. Sadly though, in a 'Ard Boyz environment your reapers are going to get creamed. A single drop pod next to them and you can kiss them goodby, let alone the speed of BA.

Wraithguard with Yriel and Eldrad: It will be tough as nails to take down, but your also talking about how many points for the unit? It will be crippled by a single PF or PK in cc and an AP3 or lower blast will wreck it's day.

Dragon Exarch with flamer: Not going to knock it till I playtest it. Been considering it but the cost makes it rather meh.

5 man DAs in Serpents: not sure how often you play this configuration, but it's rather meh. You basically give up 2 KPs when the serpent gets popped since 5 DA really can't do ANYTHING.

Again, I have to obey the WYSIWYG rules, so unfortunately I have to purchase the underslung cannon. It was a dumb move I made years ago, oh well.

I guess I'll drop the wraithguard, yriel, and dark reapers. I've been comparing my list to a friends infantry heavy smurf list and I'm basically outnumbered 2-1 by him. The reapers and wraithguard were chewing up to many points.

The cost on the dragon exarch isn't much. the flamer is basically free and you get the benefit of the exarchs 3+ armor save in the squad (which in some ways isnt much of a benefit).

As for 5 man DA, never played it that way before, but I'm using the DAVU tactic. The Avengers wont be getting out of their transports if I can help it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What would your assessment of this list be? I realize it has fire prisms in it, but I kind of have a hole in the list that needs to be fixed, and it occurs to me that the most feasible way of patching that hole is the fireprism...

HQ
Edrad = 210
5 warlocks w/ spears, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 3 destructor = 190
Wave Serpent w/ Bright Lance, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 145

Elites
5x Fire Dragons = 80
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140
5x Fire Dragons = 80
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140
5x Fire Dragons = 80
Wave Serpent w/ EML, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 140

Troops
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135
5xDA = 60
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter laser, shuriken cannon, spirit stones = 135

Heavy
3x Warwalkers w/ 2x scatterlasers, spirit stones = 195
Fire Prism w/ holo-fields, spirit stones = 160
Fire Prism w/ holo-fields, spirit stones = 160

Total = 2500

I like that one. I wish you had the time and/or energy to magnetize some stuff for your Serpents. It is a really good idea in the long run, but I understand you have to go with what you got and may not have the spare time to do all that chopping and glueing.

I like Fire Prisms. I don't use them myself, but the gun is pretty dern good. I don't think holofields are really that useful for them. They cost a lot, and, while they may keep it alive, every time I have played against a fire prism my buddy puts holo fields on it, and every time I direct a buttload of shots at it, it ends up at least stunned or often just getting its gun blown off.

Those things seem like fire magnets and almost inevitably end up floating around with a broken prism cannon and being kind of useless for anything but tank shock and objective contesting. Sure it keeps it alive, but at 35 points a pop, just to keep a floating broken tank from becoming a KP I think it would be better to invest those 70 points in a secondary guideseer to hang out near them. You would have to knock off 5 points somewhere or other. Get rid of the spirit stones on the warwalkers. Not cost effective. Now you'll have 25 more points to perhaps give your new guideseer a secondary power (I personally like tacking on Mindwar because it scares people, even if I don't have the points for spirit stones for him).

My oh my you have so many Wave Serpents. Not that that's a bad thing. It's a very good thing actually. I thought I was livin' large when my brother donated 2 to my army bringing me up to a whopping 3. I magnetized mine though, thinking ahead. I only usually play 1000, 1500 or 1850 games so 3 is plenty but oooh it would be nice to stuff in a couple more at those point levels cuz you know there won't be nearly as much AT on the table that could worry them and to be honest, it's fun to feel like you are just flying around with impunity, assured of your invincibility and going wherever the heck you want. Props to you, man.

Lol, thanks?

I would like to magnetize my serpents, but I think the damage is done on the first four I purchased (2x scatter, 1x bright lance, 1x eml), so only the last four will get the magnet treatment. Oh well..

As for fireprisms, they cost less than a falcon, and to me seem more useful (since I dont need any extra transports...). The holodfields, i've been told, are pretty much mandatory, and I dont really see the point of a second seer when eldrad can cast the same power twice per turn.

Holofields really got nerfed by the new rules. That's why nobody really uses Falcons much any more too. On top of the fact that speedy movement really doesn't protect you as much, or if it does, you only get 1 shot with 1 gun. That my friend is why Wave Serpents are the tank of choice for Eldar players nowadays. The twin EML/shricannon can at least all be fired at once.

If you can, consider putting underslung shricans on the Prisms, that makes them still a viable threat when the inevitable weapon destroyed result happens when you take holofields. If you are going to pay so much to keep it alive, it may as well be alive and somewhat useful. Again, just a thought to consider. Cheers.

edit: (sorry, much analyzing and multitasking going on)

Regarding the extra seer: In an army so stacked up with BS3 stuff, it can't hurt to be casting an extra 'Guide' if you can. I use Eldrad a lot in my 1850s and almost every game it's the same story, he ends up using 3 powers per turn... fortune something that's going into harms way, doom something that's getting blasted, guide something that's doing the blasting (a warwalker squad or a fire prism are both excellent choices). Rinse and repeat next turn. Eldrad can't be everywhere at once, and it's nice to have a relatively cheap second guide power so Eldrad can run with the dragon falcons, and generic seer can sit out of LOS behind the Prisms doing his one trick each turn and otherwise staying out of the way. Stick a singing spear on him and you have a potential transport popper and you know that people will want to be closing in on them to PF/PK them with any chance they get. This means it is quite likely that he will get a chance at some point to pop a transport who was delivering some kind of cc stuff to take out your Prisms, and make back his 3 extra points many times over. Even just taking out a rhino or a trukk is worth it, and you KNOW they will be trying to hunt down your Prisms. Those cannons are just way too powerful to be ignored. Again, cheers.

Don't your war walkers automatically have can't "move or shoot" put down to just cant shoot because they're in a squadron? That would then make the Spirit Stones useless unless only 1 walker is left.

Does noone read what I post? Yes, they have it, but I had the extra 15 points, and that was the only thing that I saw that could fill it, so I gave them a redundant upgrade (which btw, isn't redudnant once the squadron is reduced to one model).

honeslty. the list is meh.

The eldrad warlock combo is weak, especially at 2500. To make a proper seer council in a serpent this is what should be done:

Yriel
Eldrad
8 Warlocks, enhance, embolden x2

Thats it, no destructors, you want to assault and if you kill the enemy before assaulting your in serious trouble.

The EMLs are on the wrong serpents, put them with the DA, dont make fire dragons more of a target priority. Other than this, the list is pretty good, min DA is fine, especially when running gun boats.

When I typed it in I was trying to help you find a way to make a couple points back to put elsewhere. Also I acknowledged that it's not redundant once it's reduced to one model.

Besides I don't see where you said that you only gave it to them because you needed to fill 15 points.

Mafty wrote:honeslty. the list is meh.

The eldrad warlock combo is weak, especially at 2500. To make a proper seer council in a serpent this is what should be done:

Yriel
Eldrad
8 Warlocks, enhance, embolden x2

Thats it, no destructors, you want to assault and if you kill the enemy before assaulting your in serious trouble.

The EMLs are on the wrong serpents, put them with the DA, dont make fire dragons more of a target priority. Other than this, the list is pretty good, min DA is fine, especially when running gun boats.

Last I checked, all the warlocks need some power or other.

ArcSoll wrote:When I typed it in I was trying to help you find a way to make a couple points back to put elsewhere. Also I acknowledged that it's not redundant once it's reduced to one model.

Besides I don't see where you said that you only gave it to them because you needed to fill 15 points.

Hmmm... you're right... Either I seemed to have traveled through time, the forum ate my post, or I posted it somewhere else...

Last I checked, all the warlocks need some power or other.

Thats what I thought too?

chaos0xomega wrote:

ArcSoll wrote:Last I checked, all the warlocks need some power or other.

Thats what I thought too?

In that case you were both wrong . Check your codex page 60, its says "All warlocks MAY buy..."

As for the list, Im strongly against Foot councils, you are paying 600-700ish pts for a units that will never get to charge. Especially when you include Eldrad and loose Fleet. The lack of assaults ramps on the serpent makes all the eldar CC units meh.

Underslung cannons is not a complete waste, while you seldom use the cannon on all the serpents at the same time there should always be a few serpents/turn that doesnt need more than 6 inches in order to avoid mass fire.

No only Farseers have to have at least 1 power, Warlocks can take one but it isn't compulsory.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with running underslung cannons on all your Serpents, no matter what weapon they have (obviously pairing it with EML is the preferred option). While you might not always be firing it I think it is definitely worth 10pts, I usually take them on all my Serpents at the expense of Spirit Stones, at least on all my Avenger Serpents (because I would rather have more weapons than ignore the occasional stunned result). Fire Dragon Serpents need the Spirit Stones to prevent the Serpent getting stuck in close when dropping them off. Against slower armies you can keep backing away 6" and firing both weapons (more S6 shooting is always a good thing) and it also means that if you lose the turret weapon the Serpent is still useful for more than just contesting/capturing objectives (and ramming I guess).

Imo the first list is pretty weak, you have Yriel and Eldrad but no one to escort them to combat safely (which is a sub par unit in any case), a squad of Dark Reapers which can't move and shoot with bad weapon/exarch power selection and they have a transport(?).

The second list is definitely better. That Warlock squad as is is fine, just don't put Eldrad in that unit (or at least have him get out of the Serpent most of the time) and use it mainly as a horde control unit with 3 Destructors. The Embolden and Enhance mean you can also do ok in combat as well (its decent just not a hammer unit like a maxed out JetCouncil would be), its good for dealing with Dreads or can chase other tanks in an emergency. At 'Ard Boyz I think this kind of Warlock setup is probably the best, using large combat based Foot Councils is going to end badly against too many armies and even the fully maxed out JetCouncil lists can be countered fairly easily. A couple of Warlocks with Destructor is a cheap expendable unit which can put out incredibly damage for its points and as a bonus gets you access to another Serpent.

There are two things I think the list needs, first is an Autarch (just a basic one, not Yriel), give him a Fusion Gun (maybe a power weapon if you have points spare) and have him run with a Fire Dragon unit. Mostly he is there so you can play a reliable all reserves game if you want to, which is particularly helpful against Leafblower/Razorback spam type armies you are likely to run into at 'Ard Boyz. Alternatively you could get a Doom/Guide Seer but I don't think they would be as helpful. The other thing you could do with is Bright Lances on some more of your Serpents. You should expect plenty of tanks to show up at 2500pts and while they are expensive, they are the best chance Eldar have to take out a Land Raider on the other side of the battlefield (which is significantly more helpful for you than having to sacrifice a Fire Dragon unit to take it out, and even then that Raider and its nasty occupants are already going to be much closer to you then you would have liked).

You can easily get the points for both of these by dropping all the upgrades from the Prisms and the mostly pointless upgrades to the War Walkers. On a related note, while it doesn't change the points cost of you list, you may want to try out different main weapon loadouts on different unit's Serpents (i.e have the Avengers in EML Serpents and Fire Dragons in Scatter Laser Serpents etc). Usually I run Bright Lances on all my Avenger Serpents and Scatters/EML on Fire Dragons/everything else. This has the double advantage of keeping my AT power up if I either lose or have to move flat out that turn with my Fire Dragon Serpents and generally increasing the threat of my scoring Serpents (so you can either try and take out my troops or have Fire Dragons shoved down your throat, or ignore my troops and have 3-4 scoring Serpents to deal with when capturing objectives). Experiment in a few practice games to see what works best for you.

This man is wise and has good advice. I always thought it better to run dakka/troop type units in AT serps and AT type units in dakka serps precisely because it makes people confused with their target priority.

Guitardian wrote:

Mafty wrote:honeslty. the list is meh.

The eldrad warlock combo is weak, especially at 2500. To make a proper seer council in a serpent this is what should be done:

Yriel
Eldrad
8 Warlocks, enhance, embolden x2

Thats it, no destructors, you want to assault and if you kill the enemy before assaulting your in serious trouble.

The EMLs are on the wrong serpents, put them with the DA, dont make fire dragons more of a target priority. Other than this, the list is pretty good, min DA is fine, especially when running gun boats.

Last I checked, all the warlocks need some power or other.

I suggest you check again because you would be wrong

I did check and yes we were wrong. I don't use them much other than to give some guardians 'embolden' or 'conceal' and pack some hidden AT with the spear. Never occured to me to look into a powerless warlock.

My bad.

Still, more to the point, why no destructors? I don't know about you but I don't mind having a fast skimmer with that much templatey awesomeness dropping out and hosing an entire horde in one move. 35 bucks per warlock, sure is expensive, but it does go well with an army heavy on the drop-n-pop approach. The spears go on the enhance guy and the embolden guy, destructor and a witch blade for everyone else. Pack them up in the most defensive as possible transport and you have a bunch of pretty durable cc badasses dropping a LOT of heavy flamer in one turn, and then charging in to save the dragons who drop-n-popped in unison with them the turn before. I know it's expensive, but IMO, for their purposes as dragon defenders and horde killers in an overwhelming mass of destructor, I think they are worth the points.

New to Eldar dont own the codex wats EML?



i like a list ive seen some thing like this. I dont know the powers that can all have.


2x farseers on bike
2x warlocks on bike(10 man)

3x (5 man) dragons in wave- scatter lasers


4x(5man) DA in waves-scatter lasers


Warwalkers- some with scatter lasers



i Dont own the codex yet so please dont bash me too much, OBV other things to add to Waves and warlocks and farseers

EML is Eldar Missle Launcher

ttowns wrote:New to Eldar dont own the codex wats EML?



i like a list ive seen some thing like this. I dont know the powers that can all have.


2x farseers on bike
2x warlocks on bike(10 man)

3x (5 man) dragons in wave- scatter lasers


4x(5man) DA in waves-scatter lasers


Warwalkers- some with scatter lasers



i Dont own the codex yet so please dont bash me too much, OBV other things to add to Waves and warlocks and farseers

hey bud, not trying to bash... just doing some math: (I dont have my codex on me so this is just from memory)

2 farseers with 1 power each is probably about 160 points, probably 200-220 if you include the nowadays obligatory ward runes and stones and a second power

3 x 5 dragons in scatter serpent = 585 points, decent, powerful, punchy, even if it's spammy its good spam

2x 10 warlocks on a bike is just off the chart for a points sink and obvious nobrainer target priority...

now I don't use jetbiker warlocks inmyself becasue I'm too lazy to do the conversion, but if I recall (sorry no book handy), you are paying 25 pts just for the warlock, 20 more for the bike, average 10 points-ish for the powers = 55 points a guy x 2 squads of 10 = 1100 points just waiting to be tarpitted by a 250 point IG conscript squad numbering in at 50, or a 30 boyz ork mob who cost all of a whopping 180 points. Just not good matchups there, and dumping half your army's points into that squad is like painting a "KILL ME FIRST" sign on that mass of warlocks (or at least "DISTRACT ME WITH A LONG DRAWN OUT ASSULT FIRST"). I like the idea of the super-council but it just sinks so many points and is so easily countered by a smart opponent. One... maybe, 2, completely maxxed? not happening.

How will the Infantry blob manage to tarpit a Jetlock council? It wont happen.

That said, investing so many points into a unit is not smart since its relying on fortune to be effective and with all the Hoods and SWs bound to be showing up it will not be worth it.

Because they don't have hit'n'run and the board is only so big and they have to get close to get anything done and nowadays everything is moving faster anyways... just sayin'. Maybe I'm outdated but I thought the only biker types that could get out of cc were shining spears with that exarch power. If I'm wrong let me know.

They dont have hit n run but they are alot faster than the foot slogging blob. Besides, a few TL Catapult shots and 3 heavy flamers ignoring both armour and cover will thin out any blob by quite alot

Granted tedurur, but the board is still only so big, and a sparsed out ork mob of boyz will not take that many hits unless the warlocks are really REALLY pushing the range of those templates. and eventually they will get cornered if its just a wanky shricannon doing the hitting as the Eldar keep backing into a corner. All I'm trying to say is that kind of Warlock overbearingness is bound to get him in trouble. Yeah they're cool, but 2 FULL STRENGTH squads is just asking for a cheap counter strategy.