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Due to being hard-up for money atm I've bought almost my entire chaos space marine army on ebay (with a few purchases from the swap shop because they were great deals). I have found ebay to be a place that has prices like no where else, but it also has a ridiculous amount of frustrations to deal with. I'm just curious to know if other dakkites deal with these things and buy from ebay or if they go through other outlets (retail, discount online stores, FLGS, swapshop) to get their miniatures + scenery.

Whether it be the stupid bidders bid-warring on an item 5days+ before the auction ends, sellers being unable to take a picture to save their life(even on items that look good when I receive them), bidders paying more than retail for an item, or terrible packaging and late shipping. Not to mention bid snipers that often use programs to make bids at times that would be nearly impossible to make a counter-bid against. That really only covers a tiny portion of the long list of things that drive me crazy when going on ebay to find something, but anyone that has used ebay will probably know them all by heart without me telling them about it.

The only thing I'll mention are models that are models that are painted with paints that are strip-resistant/immune. Often I use a bit of simple green or pinesol and they come out good as new. Unfortunately lots of people paint plastic models with paints that are resistant to the best plastic strippers (usually taking stripping chemicals to remove that will damage the plastic underneath). Whenever this happens it makes me want to simply shore up the money and buy a new model so I can actually make out all the detail instead of having it filled with old ugly paint.

I've gotten some really great deals that make up for it of course or I would've quit ebay a long time ago. I got all of my regular chaos marine troopers for $0.30/marine or lower (compared to $3.50/marine GW retail) which helps. I got 5 death guard havocs for $9.99+$2.00shipping (the seller thought they were regular marines) and they usually go for 4x that or more. I just don't know if that one rare deal is worth all the frustration and agony that comes with ebay.

Do you buy on ebay? Do you notice the same frustrating things as I do? Or do you pay retail(or buy from reduced price shops like warstore/etc) and skip the whole thing to ensure you get a solid product from a reputable dealer?

Halsfield wrote:Whether it be the stupid bidders bid-warring on an item 5days+ before the auction ends, sellers being unable to take a picture to save their life(even on items that look good when I receive them), bidders paying more than retail for an item, or terrible packaging and late shipping. Not to mention bid snipers that often use programs to make bids at times that would be nearly impossible to make a counter-bid against. That really only covers a tiny portion of the long list of things that drive me crazy when going on ebay to find something, but anyone that has used ebay will probably know them all by heart without me telling them about it.

[size=13]Do you buy on ebay?

A lot of those issues seems to be caused from not knowing how to really use ebay well..

1) Dont bid on auctions with poor pictures if thats an issue.. for me, I have simple green and a bucket.. the paint job is sorta irrelevant. If buying from a pro-painter they do take good pictures.. I mean if someone is selling an item that is supposed to be well painted, its in their best interest have to a good picture.. If they dont then its probably NOT well painted :p

2) terrible packaging/late shipping - feedback solves most of those problems.. We're gamers and modellers.. Unless you bought the item for its paint job then bad packaging shouldnt be a HUGE deal.. You have to assemble models when you buy them right? Repairing stuff is part of the hobby, period.. If I pay a lot less than retail, using glue isnt a problem

3) Paying more than retail.. Sorry, this isnt a problem with ebay its a problem with the bidder.. If someone decides to pay more than retail, well then maybe you can let me know their name so I can start buying stuff retail and selling it to them at a profit? Thats just dumb

4) Virtually all the other listed problems are fixed by setting your first bid as your maximum.. There is NO reason to get into a bidding war. If you see an item that has a starting bid of 1 dollar and youre willing to pay 12 dollars for it.. then make your first bid 12 dollars not 2 dollars. That way ebay lists you at 2 dollars and will AUTOMATICALLY adjust it up to 12 dollars.. There is no program that allows someone to counter act that.. If you have impulse control problems and HAVE to win a bidding war and arent disciplined to set a max bid and walk away.. well thats not ebays fault, thats what gamblers tell themselves all the time

I dont use ebay a ton anymore because its less auctions and more retail sellers.. Most of the problems with ebay comes from their fee structure

Kirasu wrote:

A lot of those issues seems to be caused from not knowing how to really use ebay well..

Stupid people don't know how to use ebay? I had no idea. Now, if you were implying that I don't know how to use ebay you might want to reread the post because I think you misunderstood the point and point of view of some of these issues.

Kirasu wrote:
1) Dont bid on auctions with poor pictures if thats an issue.. for me, I have simple green and a bucket.. the paint job is sorta irrelevant. If buying from a pro-painter they do take good pictures.. I mean if someone is selling an item that is supposed to be well painted, its in their best interest have to a good picture.. If they dont then its probably NOT well painted :p

This isn't about me buying an item and finding out the item was something different (as I clearly said in the post that the only items I've received from poor pictures have been well painted and well assembled when I got them) and getting mad about it. This is about it being ridiculously easy to take a decent picture of a mini and how it is frustrating when I'm willing to spend decent money on something but I have to overlook an auction because it is a blurry pic. If they took a few extra seconds to set up the shot or use the proper setting on their camera for close-ups I could have a much larger library of auctions to choose from.

It isn't only about paint jobs. It is about what type of equipment they have (which often blends together in blurry pics of models that are black base-coated). Many auctioneers have taken to saying "auction is for items as shown in picture" with no other description. The picture of course is basically a black blob in the form of a 40k mini. It would lead them to financial ruin if it weren't for the people that still bid on this stuff and take the sellers at their word. They get burned and never buy from them again, but there is always another sucker waiting in line and the cycle continues and the sellers never change.

I also think you overlooked 1) That I use simple green as one method of stripping 2) mentioned strip-resistant/immune paints. On many plastics simple green will not take all the paint off if it is of a certain type and the types of stripping chemicals that will remove those paints is going to damage the plastics. It is pretty easy to tell when you have 5 layers of paint that comes off after a 3hour soak with simple green and the bottom layer doesnt come off after 10days that it is a problem.

Kirasu wrote:
2) terrible packaging/late shipping - feedback solves most of those problems.. We're gamers and modellers.. Unless you bought the item for its paint job then bad packaging shouldnt be a HUGE deal.. You have to assemble models when you buy them right? Repairing stuff is part of the hobby, period.. If I pay a lot less than retail, using glue isnt a problem

Feedback doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't solve the problem retroactively because I now have a damaged item that feedback isn't going to fix no matter how much I burn the seller. It doesn't even solve it proactively because the sellers are usually selling hundreds if not thousands of items and are not hurt by 1 negative feedback. I can choose not to buy from them again, but that isnt hurting them when they have people lined up to buy their products regardless of condition or packaging. If there was a combined front against this issue we could do something, but that doesn't exist currently and I'm talking about current problems that frustrate me into considering not using ebay.

Of course we're modelers. How would I be able to put a metal model together without glue + pinning? glue + pinning doesn't fix a snapped off plastic pieces or make it easy to repin/reglue a broken metal piece/model. Can I make these models work? Yes. Should I have to? No. Newspaper is not expensive, foam is not expensive, packing peanuts are not expensive.

Kirasu wrote:
3) Paying more than retail.. Sorry, this isnt a problem with ebay its a problem with the bidder.. If someone decides to pay more than retail, well then maybe you can let me know their name so I can start buying stuff retail and selling it to them at a profit? Thats just dumb

Of course it is dumb and a problem with the bidder. That is why it frustrates me. That is why all of these things frustrate me. They are all solvable by some simple common sense and know-how by people I have no control over. This in turn causes sellers to raise their prices which in turn screws me over. If this was something I could fix I would have by now.

You don't need to know their names to sell them things retail, you just need an ebay account and the knowledge to put up buyouts that are equal to or higher than GW retail and the patience to wait.

Kirasu wrote:
4) Virtually all the other listed problems are fixed by setting your first bid as your maximum.. There is NO reason to get into a bidding war. If you see an item that has a starting bid of 1 dollar and youre willing to pay 12 dollars for it.. then make your first bid 12 dollars not 2 dollars. That way ebay lists you at 2 dollars and will AUTOMATICALLY adjust it up to 12 dollars.. There is no program that allows someone to counter act that.. If you have impulse control problems and HAVE to win a bidding war and arent disciplined to set a max bid and walk away.. well thats not ebays fault, thats what gamblers tell themselves all the time

Again, of course they are fixed by setting a max bid and not raising it. This unfortunately is not how most people approach bidding on ebay and since I don't have control over these people they end up raising prices above what is reasonable and I have to wait longer for the same items to come up again. It also has the negative effect of increasing prices because the sellers are intelligent and realize that stupid people will pay close to retail for items because they are in bidding wars with people and care more about winning than what the item costs.

I buy all my GW stuff either from eBay or some UK discount site (Wayland or Maelstrom). It works out to be about half price even when shipping is factored in.

I have never had any problem with eBay; I only buy from eBay stores. I've sold things here on Dakka and that worked out well, but I've also traded stuff (which worked out fine) and wasn't really that satisfied with what I got in return. However that was my own fault because I didn't ask for better pictures of the models. I prefer to get things new from the previously mentioned stores because A) it comes with all the bitz, B) if I don't end up using it I can just exchange it for something I will use @ a retail GW and C) it's cheap and I know I won't be missing anything.

Also the Buy It Now feature is the only way to go, IMO

Halsfield wrote: Do you buy on ebay?

Nope. I can get stuff "cheap enough", new, that I don't have to bother.

anticitizen013 wrote:I buy all my GW stuff either from eBay or some UK discount site (Wayland or Maelstrom). It works out to be about half price even when shipping is factored in.

I have never had any problem with eBay; I only buy from eBay stores. I've sold things here on Dakka and that worked out well, but I've also traded stuff (which worked out fine) and wasn't really that satisfied with what I got in return. However that was my own fault because I didn't ask for better pictures of the models. I prefer to get things new from the previously mentioned stores because A) it comes with all the bitz, B) if I don't end up using it I can just exchange it for something I will use @ a retail GW and C) it's cheap and I know I won't be missing anything.

All good points there. The one nice thing ebay does is help buyers out if there is a problem (ie something was missing, payment was sent but item never shipped, etc) and swapshop/etc doesn't really cover you like that. Most of the people here on dakka are honest though so it hasn't been a problem for me so far.

anticitizen013 wrote:
Also the Buy It Now feature is the only way to go

Really? I always find the BIN listings to be way overpriced. If I get anything on ebay it is by auction. I have to wade through overbidders to get a good deal, but it is nice when I do. I've just used up most of my patience in that regard though so I'm thinking of switching to discount stores exclusively. Just trying to get a feel for who the rest of dakka buys from.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Halsfield wrote: Do you buy on ebay?

Nope. I can get stuff "cheap enough", new, that I don't have to bother.

Buying from discount stores? Friends? FLGS? Or otherwise? I'd buy brand new as well if I could find it cheap enough that it didn't kill my wallet, but so far I haven't found anywhere that sells anywhere near what I can find on ebay through attrition.

Frankly put, eBay is simply amazing. I only buy my miniatures on eBay. I also sell extensively on eBay. Granted, there are always those items not worth selling on eBay, as well as those newer items whose discounts will be minimal.

In reality, only stupid bidders cause eBay problems, not the site itself. In the scheme of things, most of the problems you mentioned are fairly uncommon; at least in my opinion.

I've personally never dealt with shipping problems. If you stick to only buying from sellers with 100% positive feedback, with higher feedback numbers, and vivid descriptions of their items, you'll most likely never run into a problem...period.

Halsfield wrote:Of course it is dumb and a problem with the bidder. That is why it frustrates me. That is why all of these things frustrate me. They are all solvable by some simple common sense and know-how by people I have no control over. This in turn causes sellers to raise their prices which in turn screws me over. If this was something I could fix I would have by now.

You don't need to know their names to sell them things retail, you just need an ebay account and the knowledge to put up buyouts that are equal to or higher than GW retail and the patience to wait.

Anyone can put stuff on eBay and set whatever starting price they like. If it's too high you can just skim over, what's the problem? The number of items on eBay is not limited, just because some set starting prices too high doesn't mean that there are cheap auctions unable to get listed. So why does it matter if there are some expensive ones. It means that some people can go on and get them on demand at a high cost while others will wait hoping to chance upon a regular auction.

Again, of course they are fixed by setting a max bid and not raising it. This unfortunately is not how most people approach bidding on ebay and since I don't have control over these people they end up raising prices above what is reasonable and I have to wait longer for the same items to come up again. It also has the negative effect of increasing prices because the sellers are intelligent and realize that stupid people will pay close to retail for items because they are in bidding wars with people and care more about winning than what the item costs.

You're complaining because you can't control other people "raising prices above what is reasonable"? What is "reasonable"? You're clearly not happy with the idea of an auction, perhaps you'd prefer a shop? The value of an auction item is merely what people are prepared to bid, has it occured to you that some people put a higher value on things and simply set their "reasonable" price higher than you?

How does the seller being intelligent or not affect how much people are prepared to bid, regardless of whether it is near retail price or not? I sell high value miniatures on eBay and start them at 99p because it makes them free to list and I know with a good photo and description they will do well, the seller can't control the bidders.

You're just angry because you can't get stuff cheap. Well you're not guaranteed to get stuff cheap on eBay. Yes it's frustrating to miss out on something you wanted but it's just stuff and most of it comes around again and again on eBay.

I only have 1 rule of thumb for buying off ebay.

Only bid on something that you know you can see 100%
If something is blurry , too dark , or too *artistic , you know something is wrong.

And no , a professional painter selling something that is supposed to be worth $100
wont be selling it with a blurry photo.

I have seen my share of some people on dakka using photo shop to edit the painted items they sell.
And tbh im disgusted by the action.

I'm in the same boat as you Kirasu, so I put in a low bid and if it gets trumped too bad.

People bidding up to or more than the retail price is frustrating but also amusing.

Ditto the amount of "pro painters" out there
If anyone on Dakka has sold sub-standard work described as "pro painter" then
Professional means you make a living out of it and implies high standards.
Some sellers seem to think it means there is paint on the model

I have had two sellers in the last month try and charge me extra because they felt the auctions didn't go high enough. That was a pain in the ass.

Other then that the only problems I have had buying and selling over the last 3 years have been a couple of people who wanted a refund without wanting to return the item.

But yeah the last month has been a very very frustrating.

Personaly I have not had any problems either as a buyer or seller with Ebay.

From what I have heard the main problem comes from people who are new to the site and aren't too clear on how it works. New buyers who leave poor feedback or simply do not understand that once you have won an auction you are obliged by law to pay for the goods that you have won, then there are sellers who are unhappy with the amount htey have recieved for their goods or have tried to arrange deals outside of Ebay whilst the auction is still running (effectively selling their item twice).

I know there are some unscrupulous types out there to rip people off but the way the feedback system works tends to root them out fairly quickly.

The main thing which annoys me is when something is listed for 99p "buy it now" but has a postage fee of £100, but as said above, just skim over these listings.

As long as you follow the rules "if it looks to good to be true then it probably is" and "if it feels wrong then it probably is wrong" then you cant go far wrong

A great place to snatch up that unwanted love that ...people buy for little johnny when little johnny doesn't want it any more. Good deals in the bits department, especially when they don't know what they are selling.

Other then that, Feebay is running its course and it is only bad, watch the car wreck, source of amusement that people have such high standards for gak.

I'm also in agreement of the so called "Pro Painters" on feebay...

To the "Pro"s out there-

You are not fooling anyone. Propainter is a Feebay catch-phrase lame excuse to overcharge for gak.

I use ebay. I've never had a problem with 90+ purchases over the years. Had some deliveries that took 2 weeks instead of the normal 1, but nothing to get my panties in a bunch over.

1. Always check the sellers feedback.
2. Don't get in bidding wars. If the the ratio of value-to-you versus price is greater than 1, bid away. If not, just let it go.
3. Patience. If you've gone the last 30 years of your life without X, you can wait another month for someone else to post it.
4. Always look at the end time. Sniping with 20 seconds left is fun. Again, be mindful of value-to-you and price ratio.
5. Leave feedback, good or bad. If you have an issue, give the seller a chance to fix it before giving bad feedback. Don't be a dick, but don't be a shmuck, either.
6. If you are new to an army, research before buying a lot of crap. Do Black Templars get Whirlwinds? No. What do jump packs normally sell for? $1 each? $3 each? Look around first is all I'm saying.
7. Pro-painted = kiss my ass.
8. OOP isn't always. Know your stuff.

Good luck.

LunaHound wrote:
I have seen my share of some people on dakka using photo shop to edit the painted items they sell.
And tbh im disgusted by the action.

Hey now! I photoshop my images when I post them on Dakka - but I don't alter them, per se. My camera tends to make miniatures look shinier then they are, and i dull down bright spots. I also do this with my Etsy store, with the earrings I sell. I don't, however, alter the character of the item, or use it to remove flaws. I feel it's no different then the food artists who dress up white paint as milk in food ads.

More specifically to Ebay, it's best to know what the maximum you are willing to spend is before you bid. Otherwise, you get the whole "well, I'm in for $5, what's another 50 cents?" type of bidding, until you would up paying $12 for a model you only really wanted for $5.

@Ouze , all those you mentioned are fine.

More specifically i meant things like using a hard light source to create shadings as if the model had high lights.
Or playing with contrast to the point that you can spot color bleedings.
And to mask dry brush marks they tend to make the picture small. So they look normal at a far distance .

Love love love ebay! If I like what I see, I bid what I feel is reasonable and if I lose, oh well. Nature of the auction beast and all that.

Now that I've learned how to strip the paint off of models, it's amazing what I can get for cheap. Plus I've learned the same strategies that have already been mentioned in this post.

I'll worry about what I can control, which is what I'm willing to pay for an item. If the buyer wants more, well, he can keep wanting. I still get to decide from the get go how much I want to pay. If someone asks $55 plus $10 shipping for a box of terminators I can get cheaper brand new, I avoid that seller can keep on going.

I don't understand how people can pay more than retail for models on ebay and then pay shipping on top of that? I guess they live in areas where they can't readily get those models.

As the saying goes Caveat Emptor. Buyer beware! It's not up to me as the customer to police the seller. It is up to me, however, to see through scams, make sure I'm not getting charged ridiculous rates for shipping, and deciding if I really want an item when the listing itself is sloppy (poor picture quality, bad grammar, etc.) or avoiding it like the plague. Amongst the proper sellers, there are deals to be had!

Sure eBay has its problems, but if you're not willing to put in any work and just want cheap stuff instantly, good luck to you.

You're dealing with a site that pretty much the entire world has access to and let's face it...there's a lot of dumb people out there. If you give up on everything that's been ruined by a stupid person at some point in time, you'll never get anything done.

Maxstreel made an excellent point. Always look at the shipping. Sometimes it's free. Some times it's 2x or even 4x the expected ammount.

Agreed. Shipping is often a ballache. Over the years I've got some great bargains from eBay - not just wargaming. I've got loads of Tranformers from eBay, some of them I would struggle to find elsewhere.

90% of the time I see auctions on eBay going for +90% rrp. I never bid on these. IMO if I'm paying full retail, I may as well buy it at retail and get all the sprues, box etc., and the chance to take it back if I change my mind. I know I could do this on eBay, but I'm lazy.

Every now and then though, you get a bargain. I've gotten Eldar Jetbikes for £1 each, OOP Metal Weapon stands for £0.25 apiece - and my favourite - 10 OOP plastic Eldar Guardians for £1+p&p.

I bought an ugly-looking chimera today for a tenner, once I strip it and convert it up it'll be right as rain - for half the price. Like I said before, the only bad thing is I use bitz and stuff like crazy, so buying a tank without the accessories pains me a little.

Don't get me started on "pro painted" though. What a joke.

When I use ebay (for buying) I tend to approach it as I would any other webstore.

Have what I want in mind
find what I want
check the details (product info,starting bids, reserve prices, shipping, seller feedback rating)
Then, depending on whats what put a bid in.

High shipping/postage is always a no no, no matter what is on offer. Having sold on ebay I have had a lot of great comments in feedback for providing accurate postage information. Nothing is worse than seeing £5.00 postage for something that actually costs £1 to pack and post.

I've had good luck with ebay except for getting ripped off for a Skaven Warp-Lightning cannon once.

For wargaming, I mostly buy 'New in Box' as I paint so slow. It's not worth saving a few bucks on models that I don't like.

The new in box stuff is almost a 'commodity' in that the sellers are really competing purely on price. The trick, for me, was to stay unemotional about it. For example, at one point I wanted a box of Catchans to make some mutants/traitors out of... it took me a month or two to find a good deal, but I did, and they worked fine. I traded the instant gratification for a bit more cash in hand.

To be honest I don't really use it that much anymore, the charges have become a joke and they seem more interested in treating the site as some huge online mall, rather than the once awesome car boot stall it used to be.

Through 2002 and 2006 I got myself over a thousand ebay rating from the many GW items I sold, and I prided myself on quick shipping and friendly service, hence my two negs and one neutral in that entire period. (Both Negs where from Morons, one for buying a item at the last second without reading the description, and the other a guy who couldn't wait five days for a game when my description always said I can take up to 10days to deliver due to rural location.)

Now it hardly seems worth putting the items on. Unless its one of my wifes painted lots. Oh and aye, we stopped using Pro painted rather quickly as it was obviously becoming a 'avoid at all costs' sign if you had it in your title. We used Good painting, or Golden Daemon standard, and eventually just her online Signature 'LVix' as it seemed to work better. I think Her best cost to profit ratio was the Tactical squad from Battle of McCragge which sold for £54. Although she has also sold a Orc Blood Bowl team for £150, and many others such as single on foot figs selling for over £30.)
I know she is a good painter though as shes been in the GD finalists case the one year she has gone, and got accepted into the Fanatic painting scheme just before they closed Fanatic down, which was kinda heartbreaking.

Anyways, loosing track, yeah, ebay its quite annoying, I have no idea why folk pay over the retail, happened a few times on my lots, I assume its to due with local pricing, as most of the time it happened it was either going to Canada or Australia. I think my postage was pretty helpful there as I wasn't one of those who added a £5 into P&P for profit, and pre-weighed most of my lots so was very accurate on the prices listed.

As for buying, I can use either approach, but in general now I tend to just put in what I'm willing to pay, if I get it cool, if not, no worries I'll try another day.

Oh and as for my best ever score for buying, hmm, probably that New Jersey store that closed down and they where throwing it away. Back in about 2003, picked up about £120 worth of various blisters and boxes that if brand new would have cost in the region of £450-500. The best part was he sent it in a giant but long box and valued it at around £15, he obviously knew about our import issues, saved me a packet.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Anyways, loosing track, yeah, ebay its quite annoying, I have no idea why folk pay over the retail, happened a few times on my lots, I assume its to due with local pricing, as most of the time it happened it was either going to Canada or Australia. I think my postage was pretty helpful there as I wasn't one of those who added a £5 into P&P for profit, and pre-weighed most of my lots so was very accurate on the prices listed.

Sites like eBay brings out some weird behavior in some people. I think they accidentally get confused and define 'winning' as 'winning the auction' instead of 'getting a good deal.'

Which is good for sellers, not so good for buyers.

Yeah I can see that also, but back when it was happening on my lots I seem to remember Canadian GW fans being hosed with a no shipping from US GW thing, and Australia has always been silly expensive compare to our prices.

I love ebay.

A combination of fairy power spray and bid snipping means I can get armies much cheaper than normal. How often I use it depends on what I am building at the moment. Often I can't be bothered to search ebay for months just to get the right model, but if I am after something common or am happy to wait then ebay's where I go.

Most recently (over the last month) I have been able to get hold of about 250+ Night goblins for about £60 sure they are BFSP but I like the models and when I need 3-400 the model quality becomes less important.

That is a good point Morathi but it also happens in the scale model section which is not as bad afaik, as getting stuff from Japan and China is not too much of an issue.

Some get carried away. I guess the competitive gaming behaviour spills over

The only things I get from ebay are.
1 - Limited Edition or OOP figures/Boxes I need (read: want).
2 - Things I can get at 50% off retail, including shipping. I can already get things for a good price, there has to be a major differance in price for me to bother stripping a usually poorly painted model rather then get it new.

personally I think ebay is great for pewter minatures. You can dump things in simple green or whatever your fav paint stripper is, and its really easy to repair any damage and I do get annoyed when peopel complain that the pewter 2 peice model that came in the mail isn't glued properly. Plastics on the other hand are a bit more problematic, I generally only buy undercoated or bare plstic models as they are allot more annoying to fix. The sole expection to this, is tank because they are easy to deal with than regular plastic minis. Overall I' love ebay, I've bought and sold plenty armies, some people suck some don't but over I think its pretty good.

Halsfield wrote: They are all solvable by some simple common sense and know-how by people I have no control over.

I find this frustrating in almost every part of my life


Personally I love Ebay, I buy almost everything on Ebay and have never had a problem. I might just be lucky though