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Every time I go up against new BA, I always seem to get my ass handed to me.

No matter what I do, it just seems like BA outmaneuver me. They're in my deployment zone in turn 1 and slaughtering everything in turn 2. If Tau are supposed to be "incredibly mobile", then BLOOD ANGELS CAN TELEPORT!!

Its almost to the point where I'm ready to refuse to go up against BA anymore until Tau get a new codex. With 'Ard Boyz, though, I know that's not possible.

So, any suggestions?

I'm pretty new to 40k but I am building a SM list for 'ard boyz. I would think your best bet for a lot of the new SM armies would be plasma weapons. stealth teams can upgrade to ap 2 weapons, try grabbing some plasma rifles on battle suits and a sniper team probably wouldn't hurt.

Tiberius183, we'll need to know more about both your army and your opponents' armies before we can make any useful comments. Once you lay things out, we can give better advice.

It's not hopeless, though, so don't give up.

Well, the army list I'm using right now is a 2500 pt list I've written specifically for 'Ard Boyz:

HQ
Crisis Commander Shas'o
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Missile Pod
-Shield Generator
-Stimulant Injector
-HW Multi-tracker
-HW Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones
-Iridium Armor

Crisis Commander Bodyguard
-Plasma Rifle
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting Array
-HW Multi-tracker
-HW Target Lock
-HW Drone Controller w/ shield drone

Crisis Commander Bodyguard
-Plasma Rifle
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting Array
-HW Multi-tracker
-HW Target Lock
-HW Drone Controller w/ shield drone

Troops
Fire Warrior squad (11)
-Shas'ui w/ Bonding Knife

Fire Warrior squad (11)
-Shas'ui w/ Bonding Knife

Fire Warrior squad (11)
-Shas'ui w/ Bonding Knife

Kroot Carnivore squad
-Kroot (10)
-Kroot Hounds (5)

Kroot Carnivore squad
-Kroot (10)
-Kroot Hounds (5)

Devilfish
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Flechette Dischargers

Fast Attack
Pathfinder squad (5)
-Shas'ui w/ Bonding Knife and HW Target Lock

Pathfinder squad (5)
-Shas'ui w/ Bonding Knife and HW Target Lock

Pathfinder Devilfish
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Seeker Missile
-Flechette Dischargers

Pathfinder Devilfish
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Seeker Missile
-Flechette Dischargers

Elites
Crisis Battlesuit squad
Team Leader
--Airburst Fragmentation
--Target Lock
--Drone Controller w/ 2shield drones
--Bonding Knife

Battlesuit 1
-Missile Pod
-Plasma Rifle
-Multi-tracker

Battlesuit 2
-Missile Pod
-Plasma Rifle
-Multi-tracker

Heavy Support
Hammerhead
-Railgun
-Disruption Pod
-Multi-tracker
-Target Lock
-Smart Missile system
-Seeker Missile
-Flechette Dischargers

Broadside Battlesuit team
Team Leader
--Targeting Array
--HW Multi-tracker
--HW Target Lock
-HW Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones
--Bonding Knife

Broadside 1
--Target Lock

Broadside 2
-Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones

Broadside Battlesuit team
Team Leader
--Targeting Array
--HW Multi-tracker
--HW Target Lock
-HW Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones
--Bonding Knife

Broadside 1
--Target Lock

Broadside 2
-Drone Controller w/ 2 shield drones

I don't know too much about what my friend has exactly, but he uses Mephiston as his HQ, he has a librarian, fields a small number of Death company w/ chaplain, vanguard veterans, a devastator squad, sanguinary priests here and there, 2 drop pods, 2 rhinos (well, one and a razorback), a tac squad, etc.

First you can fit a lot more killiness in your list if you start by dropping the crap off some of your suits. The list you're working with isn't terrible but it's got way too many points tied up in things like your commander and an excessive amount of shield drones.

My suggestions would be to drop the fire warrior squads down to 6 man squads and save the points for more fireknife suits. Same with dropping the Shas'O down to an 'El and giving him a targeting array with only a Missile pod and Plasma rifle. The shield gen/iriduim armor/stimms are just too many points when you could be getting a lot more shots down field that will actually kill something unlike the CiB.

I'm not a fan of bodyguard and since you have pathfinders I would up the pathfinder squads to 8 and make the bodyguard regular fireknife suits and attach the 'El.

It seems like you took an 1850 list and then just piled on upgrades to get to 2500 to me. What other models do you have? You have enough useless upgrades spread across your army that you can probably field 2 squads of fireknives that can JSJ from behind LOS denying devilfish and be able to shred through those FNP blood angels.

tiberius183 wrote:Every time I go up against new BA, I always seem to get my ass handed to me.

No matter what I do, it just seems like BA outmaneuver me. They're in my deployment zone in turn 1 and slaughtering everything in turn 2. If Tau are supposed to be "incredibly mobile", then BLOOD ANGELS CAN TELEPORT!!

Its almost to the point where I'm ready to refuse to go up against BA anymore until Tau get a new codex. With 'Ard Boyz, though, I know that's not possible.

So, any suggestions?

Tau codex is broken. There is not allot you can do with decent of angels running around your back field.

Tau plasma is just about the only effective way for Tau to put up a fight against BA. Hammerheads become next to useless when facing FNP, and Kroot will get their faces smashed in by assault marines.

Unfortunately, the only viable list I can think of, involves spamming Tau plasma on suits. Alternatively, you could use fusion blasters, but a measly 12 inch range isn't usually going to cut it.

I honestly think Tau is worse off than any other codex when facing down BA. Blood Angels have everything they could possibly need to take down Tau, even resorting to DSing if necessary. Fast Vehicles cause a lot of problems for Tau AT, simply because the BA player only needs transports to run two turns, in order for it to pay off.

Orks still get into assault faster though.

vagorin wrote:

tiberius183 wrote:Every time I go up against new BA, I always seem to get my ass handed to me.

No matter what I do, it just seems like BA outmaneuver me. They're in my deployment zone in turn 1 and slaughtering everything in turn 2. If Tau are supposed to be "incredibly mobile", then BLOOD ANGELS CAN TELEPORT!!

Its almost to the point where I'm ready to refuse to go up against BA anymore until Tau get a new codex. With 'Ard Boyz, though, I know that's not possible.

So, any suggestions?

Tau codex is broken. There is not allot you can do with decent of angels running around your back field.

I'm going to respectfully disagree, Tau have all the tools necessary to wreck blood angels with lots of AP2/1 firepower, the ability to remove every transport and tank on the board in 2 turns or less and cheep kroot to bubblewrap all important units. If you need movement denial you have piranhas and dropped gun drones.

The fast flamers and scouting BAALs will hurt but with first turn Tau are more than capable and if going second it's going to be deployment and target priority that will pull the game out.

Of all armies Tau are also the only ones to not really worry about the flat-out PotMS shoot stuff shinanigans as they can simply remove the cover save and hit it with str 10 ap1 and watch 200+ points of vehicle evaporate.

You're running into some of the same problems I did with my previous Tau list, including "too few shots" and "too close range".

First, and I'm not sure if you're already doing this, is to start with pretty much your entire army on the table. The more shooting you get at the Blood Angels early on, the better off you'll be. Prioritize transports and other mobility. Don't be afraid to throw away a Kroot squad to save something else.

Also, set up in a deepstrike defense formation. The Vanguard will probably get the charge when they deepstrike, but make sure that they can't multicharge and that they don't get to hide in close combat during your next shooting phase. This second point usually means that you'll have to change up your army list a bit, but you want to be able to reliably fail any morale test you take at the end of close combat. As a part of this, do NOT castle up; this will get you eaten up in multicharges rather quickly, and allows your opponent to concentrate all of his force against your big block o' dudes.

Harking back to the "too few shots" thing, I had problems with many army builds until I got rid of the Fusion Blasters on my Crisis suits (I replaced 3 Helios suits with 3 Deathrain suits). Tau don't really have all that much long-range shooting; you've got Railguns, Ion Cannons and... nothing else at 48" or longer (Seeker Missiles don't count, as they are limited by the 36" Markerlight, and don't even start on the Kroot Gun). The next range step (36") is Markerlights, Missile Pods and Railrifles. In my mind, you need to be getting shots in at 36" or more as soon as possible, and fortunately this shooting is good at killing light vehicles. If you can string out the assaulters, you'll have a leg up.

The "too close range" thing has to do with Fusion Blasters (and even Plasma Rifles) on Crisis Suits. They're effective, but if you don't kill what you're shooting at (or if you just kill their ride) then the reminder will come out and eat your face. I tried in earnest to make the Helios suits work for me, and I just couldn't make it happen. I've had much more success with Deathrains, and run a pair of Fusion Blaster Piranhas that (so far) have been performing up to my expectations.

One other thing to consider is to swap out your Railhead for an Ionhead. This goes back to the volume of shots, and with a 60" range, you can get some sneaky side armor shots early in the game (or head-on versus Rhinos and Razorbacks). They also tear up marines in the open (you know, the ones that just piled out of a flaming wreck).

I hope that this helps you out. Tau require finesse and practice, so get some games in! And good luck.

At 2500 points, Tau start to have trouble scaling.

You need to find a way to keep the BA from being on top of you. A castle in the corner is probably your best bet.

You need way, way fewer fire warriors, and perhaps more kroot. Drop some fire warriors, max out the pathfinder squads (maybe even give them a shas'ui and a gun drone for more bodies)

I run 10 plasma/missile crisis suits at 2000 points. You should be able to have at least that many at 2500. Drop the shas'o bodyguard and spend those points on regular suits. You should have enough markerlights to make regular crisis suits good enough, and this also allows the shas'o to join other squads (like the pathfinders) to keep them from running off the board under turn one fire). A second HQ shas'el joined to the other pathfinders or a squad of broadsides could help with the same.

Lose the AFP. More plasma! At 2500 points it isn't going to save you against hordes, and it does nothing to BA.

A sample list you can try to work into 2500 points (I got to about that) using about the same models:

Shas'o with toys (no iridium, no shield generator - give him drones instead)

Shas'el plasma/missile maybe with gun drones

3x plasma/missile crisis

3x plasma/missile crisis

2x plasma/missile crisis

6x FW w/devilfish
6x FW
6x FW (I would love to replace this with 10x kroot - they can ride in a devilfish too!)

10xkroot, 5x hounds
10xkroot, 5x hounds

8x pathfinders, shas'ui w/ one gun drone, Devilfish
8x pathfinders, shas'ui w/ one gun drone, Devilfish

(9 is a nice number to force 3 casualties for a break test, but this is not necessary especially if you join the HQs to the pathfinders turn 1)


Hammerhead, burst cannons, target lock, disruption pods, railgun, multitracker - 170. Don't need the other stuff.

2x broadside teams as-is but I don't think you really need all those drones to be shield drones, a couple can be gun drones and stay in cover. But that is just points shaving

Deployment, well, if they're dropping, you're probably castling. Kroot making protective rings so your vehicles don't get melta'd and protecting from charges. Take what he's got and then see what you can blow off the board. You should have more firepower with this list, but it may still not be enough.

If they're not dropping and just running up with Rhinos, you can still castle, maybe in the middle instead of a corner depending on the mission type or if he's outflanking tanks. You have so many missile pods and railguns that you shouldn't have trouble killing rhino chassis. If it's a bunch of dreads or tanks 7 railguns should be ok.

You might want to keep a log of your game and write up a battle report. Not to say that your problem is only tactics and that Tau are awesome...but it could help us figure out something.

10xkroot, 5x hounds

At a hundred points, this is not a big problem, but it is going to be difficult to deny leapfrogging off of a unit like this. The squad will get 1-2 wounds on the charge, which is going to be very difficult, but 2 marines is a pretty good reason to try. The main problem is that assault marines can win most assaults, simply because Kroot are only Ini7, making it very easy for S4 hits to run down the squad.

The upside to this is the fact that assaulting Kroot, will usually leave assault marines standing in front of a row of guns. Long story short, let the BA player get the assault, then you won't have to worry about giving him a consolidation move.

I also like Loreks suggestion about using an Ionhead, with clear shots it can do serious damage to Meq units, and it can be pretty effective against AV11.

I think everyone's missing the point of my plea for help here.

I've playtested this list against other armies and have dominated (and fought to a draw against 'Nids). I'm not trying to come up with an anti-BA LIST; please keep in mind that I'm going to be competing in 'Ard Boyz with this list, so its got to have a little of everything to take on all comers, which is what this list has.

What I'm pretty much saying is here's the list, tell me how to make it work against BA. I'm looking for TACTICS. If I wanted the list critiqued, I'd re-post it in the Army List forum. Its not just a challenge for me, but a challenge for all the other tactical-minded players out there who value tactics over crap-that-you-have.

With that said, let's brainstorm.

brainstorm...ok!

I would put everything except one squad of broadside and maybe pathfinder squad on one flank. Maybe a broadside near them in the middle of the deployment zone. The other broadsides and one pathfinders should be on the opposite flank of the majority of your force. Keep those squishy FWs in reserve however.

The reasoning in this is that your oppenent has to make a choice: go after the main part of the army, or go after big threats such as the broadsides. Hopefully, He will split some forces off to deal with your very resilent broadsides and not worry so much about the squishy Kroot. When the FWs come in from reserve, they should be near a pathfinder's fish. Zoom the fish over and try to contest/ take the objectives on turn 4/5.

That or maybe outflank the kroot so they can wreak your opponents tac squad, which probably will be the only one on his sid because he will be wreaking your backfield....meh...

Outflanking Kroot is a *TERRIBLE* idea generally speaking. Their main role is to slow down the enemy, and infiltrate to push back legal areas he can deepstrike or Scout to. What would you rather lose to an air-cav Alpha-strike? A Kroot unit, or half your vehicles?

Hammerheads do not scale to this level as there is enough firepower to shake/stunlock them. Swap for more Broadsides. Also, having Piranhas to block off his movement is critical. In a lot of games, they've been my MVP unit for bogging down the enemy long enough to railgun them dead.

92 points: Shas'el w/ Target Lock/Missile Pod/Plasma Rifle/Multitracker

206 points: 3x Crisis Suit Team w/ Missile Pods/Plasma Rifles/Multitrackers. One is Team Leader w/ Hardwired Drone-Controller and Shield Drone.

206 points: 3x Crisis Suit Team w/ Missile Pods/Plasma Rifles/Multitrackers. One is Team Leader w/ Hardwired Drone-Controller and Shield Drone.

206 points: 3x Crisis Suit Team w/ Missile Pods/Plasma Rifles/Multitrackers. One is Team Leader w/ Hardwired Drone-Controller and Shield Drone.

60: 6 Fire Warriors

60: 6 Fire Warriors

170: 6 Fire Warriors, Devilfish w/ Disruption Pod/Smart Missiles/Targeting Array

170: 6 Fire Warriors, Devilfish w/ Disruption Pod/Smart Missiles/Targeting Array

106 points: 10 Kroot/6 Hounds

106 points: 10 Kroot/6 Hounds

206 points: 8 Pathfinders. Devilfish w/ Disruption Pod/Smart Missiles/Targeting Array.
206 points: 8 Pathfinders. Devilfish w/ Disruption Pod/Smart Missiles/Targeting Array.
135: 2 Piranhas, one w/ Disruption Pod, Targeting Array, and Fusion Blaster.

190 points: 2 ASS Broadsides. Team Leader has Hard-Wired Target Lock, Hard-wired Drone Controller w/ 2 Gun Drones

190 points: 2 ASS Broadsides. Team Leader has Hard-Wired Target Lock, Hard-wired Drone Controller w/ 2 Gun Drones

190 points: 2 ASS Broadsides. Team Leader has Hard-Wired Target Lock, Hard-wired Drone Controller w/ 2 Gun Drones

Note, that if you really want, you can attempt to squeeze an AFP onto the Shas'el.

mythological wrote:brainstorm...ok!

I would put everything except one squad of broadside and maybe pathfinder squad on one flank. Maybe a broadside near them in the middle of the deployment zone. The other broadsides and one pathfinders should be on the opposite flank of the majority of your force. Keep those squishy FWs in reserve however.

The reasoning in this is that your oppenent has to make a choice: go after the main part of the army, or go after big threats such as the broadsides. Hopefully, He will split some forces off to deal with your very resilent broadsides and not worry so much about the squishy Kroot. When the FWs come in from reserve, they should be near a pathfinder's fish. Zoom the fish over and try to contest/ take the objectives on turn 4/5.

That or maybe outflank the kroot so they can wreak your opponents tac squad, which probably will be the only one on his sid because he will be wreaking your backfield....meh...

I like how you think.

I've been thinking up a similar strategy, however it involves squeezing in a Positional Relay, keep all but a pathfinder squad and my crisis team carrying said relay in reserve, and just let him come to my side of the table, while I give him a taste of his own medicine and deepstrike and outflank his side of the table, killing his units in the back and making him have to work his way back to his side of the table. The reason for the relay is to be bring in single critical units every turn , and keep everything else that I don't want out yet in reserve (at least until turn 4).

tiberius183 wrote:I think everyone's missing the point of my plea for help here.

I've playtested this list against other armies and have dominated (and fought to a draw against 'Nids). I'm not trying to come up with an anti-BA LIST; please keep in mind that I'm going to be competing in 'Ard Boyz with this list, so its got to have a little of everything to take on all comers, which is what this list has.

What I'm pretty much saying is here's the list, tell me how to make it work against BA. I'm looking for TACTICS. If I wanted the list critiqued, I'd re-post it in the Army List forum. Its not just a challenge for me, but a challenge for all the other tactical-minded players out there who value tactics over crap-that-you-have.

I think you may be missing some of the other peoples point. What they are saying is don't bring a knife to a gunfight. As per your wishes, I'm not going to post a list here but instead will post a link to one of my 2500 pt lists. This is intended as a source for ideas not as a, "you must build like this". The list is over here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/291698.page



Now for tactical ideas on how to not get munched:

In every deployment but Spearhead this list sets up in the corners. It is a classic twin-castle with the broadsides all the way back in the corner, then a picket of Pathfinders in front of them, and then a picket of kroot beyond the pathfinders. Have your pickets string from table edge to table edge.

The last Kroot unit goes into either start in reserve, infiltrate, or try to run with the vehicles.

The Hammerhead and 2FW teams in the DF will set up between the castles in a vee formation. The command squad is set into the pocket for cover and as the vehicles move, the suits jump diagonally to shoot through the fire lanes that you leave between the vehicles. Then the suits assault back into cover.

Now, there are variations to these tactics where the to Castles are combined into one giant multi-layered defense and where your open field runners/objective contesting (tanks&transports) run without the FW in them. These tactics work only in specific situations that are determined by battlefield layout where you are trying to make lemonade out of p**s.

What you are praying for in this set up is that your opponent splits his forces to chase everything. If he does this then focus all of yor fire on one of the outside flanks in an effort to make them go away by end of second turn. This is the hole that your vehicles will move towards, hopefully turning the game into a long table edge battle where your opponents army comes at you in a trickle stacked one unit at a time instead of a wave crashing into your lines all at once.

The problem with this build is that it is very static against a one of the fastest MEQ armies there are.

Hope this helps

tiberius183 wrote:I think everyone's missing the point of my plea for help here.

I've playtested this list against other armies and have dominated (and fought to a draw against 'Nids). I'm not trying to come up with an anti-BA LIST; please keep in mind that I'm going to be competing in 'Ard Boyz with this list, so its got to have a little of everything to take on all comers, which is what this list has.

What I'm pretty much saying is here's the list, tell me how to make it work against BA. I'm looking for TACTICS. If I wanted the list critiqued, I'd re-post it in the Army List forum. Its not just a challenge for me, but a challenge for all the other tactical-minded players out there who value tactics over crap-that-you-have.

With that said, let's brainstorm.

Here's the problem in my eyes, it's not any particular tactics that you can implement that will allow you to win vs BA, the problem lies in your LIST. You simply don't have enough AP 1/2 to kill enough marines before they lay waste to everything you have in your deployment zone.

I would hope you already know how to set up a suitable anti-deepstriker castle with your kroot acting as bubblewrap. There's a few ways to do it especially since it varies on deployment type. Since you don't even have advanced stabilization systems on your broadsides you can't even start full reserve and walk on where he's weakest. Sometimes it's the list not the player that needs help, and regardless of you doing well against other armies, loads of FNP and 3+ saves are going to dominate you simple as that.

tiberius183 wrote:I think everyone's missing the point of my plea for help here.

I've playtested this list against other armies and have dominated (and fought to a draw against 'Nids). I'm not trying to come up with an anti-BA LIST; please keep in mind that I'm going to be competing in 'Ard Boyz with this list, so its got to have a little of everything to take on all comers, which is what this list has.

What I'm pretty much saying is here's the list, tell me how to make it work against BA. I'm looking for TACTICS. If I wanted the list critiqued, I'd re-post it in the Army List forum. Its not just a challenge for me, but a challenge for all the other tactical-minded players out there who value tactics over crap-that-you-have.

With that said, let's brainstorm.

Apparently you have failed to read through the massive amount of tactical information present in this thread. There was a few mentions of appropriate units, along with a couple of suggested lists. If you fail to see (as mentioned by other posters) that you may HAVE to change your list in order to implement effective tactics, i/e change your strategy, there is next to nothing people can offer you.

Read through the thread again, and ask people to expand on their points. I could easily write a 5 page essay on effective tactics for Tau, with information present BEFORE you posted the above (^) request.

This is actually a very informative thread, make use of the whole thing.

Outflanking Kroot is a *TERRIBLE* idea generally speaking. Their main role is to slow down the enemy, and infiltrate to push back legal areas he can deepstrike or Scout to. What would you rather lose to an air-cav Alpha-strike? A Kroot unit, or half your vehicles?

True, many players, including me sometimes, use kroot as meatshields to protect our more important units alive.

Yet let me ask you a question, who can capture objectives? Kroot or vehicles?

The answer is kroot and, like it or not, they can score as one of our two troop units.

I was suggesting this because a BA army will usually be charging your lines, not leaving a lot of units back to protect. They might just leave a lone tac squad in a rhino sitting on an objective.

Outflank the kroot, get in the backfield, maybe a sole railgun shot later the rhino is gone and the squad is out in the open, ready to be charged by kroot.

In the end, the BA either have to go back and contest/take back the objective, or keep going foward and go for your *cough*heavily defended*cough*objective.

But aside from that, yea, it's a horrible idea.

Very well.

I have made the following modifications to my list:

New Broadside configuration:

Broadside Battlesuit team
Team Leader
--ASS
--HW Multi-tracker
--HW Target Lock
--HW Drone Controller
--Shield Drone
--Shield Drone
--Bonding Knife
--TL Plasma Rifles

Broadside 2
--ASS
--TL Plasma Rifles

Broadside 3
--ASS
--TL Plasma Rifles

I was very reluctant to go with ASS because I almost never move my Broadsides, but at least with the ASS, if I employ my strategy of walking them on the table from reserve, they can still fire the rails. Gave them TL plasma instead of the smart missiles, too, so if the walk on they can also unload 6 TL plasma shots. They will not have as much ablative wounds, though, and would be more vulnerable to krak missiles and lascannon shots.

-I took the FW count down from 11 to 8 per squad.

-Removed the HW target locks from the Pathfinder Shas'ui (they won't hit on their own with BS 3 anyway...)

-Removed the Seekers from the Hammerhead and regular fish.

-Not enough points freed up for another crisis team, but I did add a Monat with TL plasma and a positional relay.

Thoughts?

I think shield drones are mandatory for Broadsides; plasma.....I think its a mistake. If you're in 12" range for a broadside to fire plasma...you're in trouble - that's what you have the rest of your army for. STR5 spam from firewarriors, suits with fusion/plasma to deal with MEQ/TEQ....

I think that a single hammerhead is also a mistake. Its anti-vehicle power is laughable compared to the might of a broadside, let alone a broadside team, and at 2500 points, if you run into green swarm or gant-heavy tyranids, a single hammerhead isn't going to turn the tide of the battle.

My heavy supports are usually either 2x3 Broadside teams with a target lock to fire at 4 total units....or 3x2 units with the same that can fire at 6 targets - and if I do 2x3, the third heavy support (if not another three broadsides) is three teams of sniper drones.

This isn't going to be popular advice, but I'm also not a fan of plasma/missile combinations. You can make them half effective at long range against light transports, or half effective at medium/close range against troops, but good at nothing; I much prefer a deathrain team of dedicates missile launchers, and another Helios team dedicates to anti-MEQ/TEQ, with flamer support on suits depending on what my configurations are going to be.

I have to also second the opinion that you max out your pathfinder teams. But make it a team and fit a coupe of piranhas in there. Great anti-tank.

Dashofpepper wrote:I think shield drones are mandatory for Broadsides; plasma.....I think its a mistake. If you're in 12" range for a broadside to fire plasma...you're in trouble - that's what you have the rest of your army for. STR5 spam from firewarriors, suits with fusion/plasma to deal with MEQ/TEQ....

If I'm going up against BA, its inevitable that they're going to be up in my grill. If that happens, I'd like to do as much damage as possible before they go down (or, with luck, blast them down enough so that my Broadsides actually stand a chance in CC)

As for the STR5 spam, fish o' fury is my primary offense with this army. However, with BA having FNP on damn near everything, Str5/Ap5 is damn near useless.

I think that a single hammerhead is also a mistake. Its anti-vehicle power is laughable compared to the might of a broadside, let alone a broadside team, and at 2500 points, if you run into green swarm or gant-heavy tyranids, a single hammerhead isn't going to turn the tide of the battle.

It doesn't but it helps. Also, it seems to act as a fire magnet. Seriously, people seem to make it top priority to wreck the thing, its funny.

This isn't going to be popular advice, but I'm also not a fan of plasma/missile combinations. You can make them half effective at long range against light transports, or half effective at medium/close range against troops, but good at nothing; I much prefer a deathrain team of dedicates missile launchers, and another Helios team dedicates to anti-MEQ/TEQ, with flamer support on suits depending on what my configurations are going to be.

Well, diversity is key here. With fireknife, I got the best of both worlds against MEQ and light transports. The thought did come to mind to drop the missile pod on my Shas'o and take a plasma rifle instead for a little more anti-MEQ firepower, though.

I have to also second the opinion that you max out your pathfinder teams. But make it a team and fit a coupe of piranhas in there. Great anti-tank.

If I had the points and the models, I would. I only have one piranha model and it isn't even assembled.

Dashofpepper wrote:I think shield drones are mandatory for Broadsides; plasma.....I think its a mistake. If you're in 12" range for a broadside to fire plasma...you're in trouble - that's what you have the rest of your army for. STR5 spam from firewarriors, suits with fusion/plasma to deal with MEQ/TEQ....

Am I missing something here? Plasma rifles are 24" RF. I guess one TL shot isn't much, but it will beat FNP where missiles will not.

tiberius183 wrote:As for the STR5 spam, fish o' fury is my primary offense with this army. However, with BA having FNP on damn near everything, Str5/Ap5 is damn near useless.

Seriously.

I think the important thing to prepare for is FNP, especially since it is present in other nasty armies. If you do nothing else to prepare for BA, just prepare for FNP, because it will make you cry if you don't.

It doesn't but it helps. Also, it seems to act as a fire magnet. Seriously, people seem to make it top priority to wreck the thing, its funny.

I might agree with DoP here, not sure though. Are you not going to try an Ionhead? Seems like a pretty good compromise, since you expect it to get destroyed anyway, might as well save a few points... 35 points in fact, not bad at all. You should easily be able to get a few shots out of it, and 3 BS4 shots can do some decent damage.

Personally, I consider Fish of Fury a bad idea. DashofPepper could actually testify to this, as I've witnessed one game where he was Dark-Eldar, and the disembarked Fire Warriors were pretty much open to Ravager-blasts next turn...

That said, I am in the pro-Fireknife camp (woo), because set right, they will be firing on turn 1 with all weapons, and overspecialization makes it easier for shooty armies to set their target priorities straight. A simple example of course would be if your opponent was Guard, and he has Basilisk shots for one target. The Deathrains threaten him now, but the Plasma/Fusion won't be a threat until later...contrast with having two Fireknife teams. It's an oversimplified example, but redudnacy against losses is important ("NO, NOT MY LINCHPIN BATTLEWAGON!").