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I'm new here, so please bare with me...

So....as I'm trying to get my army worked out, I've come to the conclusion that I need a goal.

My army building blog can be found here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254379

So I want to have this ready for competition in Mechanicon which is in November.

A friend recommended I get some feedback from the experts so I came here.



Imperial Navy-Special Operations Command-Detachment Whiskey
(INSOCOM)

HQ
Command Squad
Veteran Officer - Captain Steele
Melta Gunner
Vox Operator
Missile Launcher
Frag & Krak Grenades
Carapace Armor

Fleet Officer
Vendetta Gunship with HB Door Gunners

Total: 275pts

TROOPS

RT-Alpha Veteran Squad (10 men)
Grenadiers
Missile Launcher
Melta Gun
Plasma Gun
Vox

RT-Bravo Veteran Squad (10 men)
Grenadiers
Missile Launcher
Grenade Launcher
Flamer
Vox

RT-Delta Veteran Squad (10 men)
Grenadiers
Heavy Bolter
Melta Gun
Plasma Gun
Vox



ELITE

RT-Zulu Storm Trooper Squad (7 men)
Meltagun
Plasmagun

Vendetta Gunship with HB Door Gunners


FAST ATTACK

Scout Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with Lascannons, HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with Plasma Cannons & HK Missiles


HEAVY SUPPORT

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons

Vulture Gunship with Twin Linked Lascannons and Hellstrike Missiles


TOTAL POINTS: 1837



The main thing I am most unsure about is the point cost of the Vultures and the Punisher cannons...I think Imp Armor Vol 1 is not up to date and since Forge World redid their website, I cant find anything on new point totals.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

You can have vultures in normal games?

I guess that's why I'm asking for opinions...I havent played in a while and I'm not sure what's allowed and what isn't.

Alright, I would try and find an Imperial Guard codex as soon as possible for you, but as it stands, you can't use Vulture Gunships in normal games.

A few pointers:

1) mix and matching weapons never really works out in your benefit. You have to shoot both weapons at the same target so try and make it the same target.

2) if going for the SOCOM feel just know that most of their heavy weapons are in the form of support. Whether it be in the form of gunships (Vendettas and Valkyries) or Heavy Artillery (Ship based systems or ground based systems)

3) Scout Sentinels are actually badass with Autocannons. Extra shots and if you outflank you're hitting side and rear armor. Don't forget, Imperial Guard shoot about as good as Somalians.

Imperial Guard shoot about as good as Somalians

HAHAHAHAHAHA.....

I guess if I cant use Vultures, I'll have to come up with another solution for Heavy Support.

Of course, I think it sucks that GW makes these vehicles and then you can't use them in army lists?

Then why bother selling them?

You can take them in Apocalypse games if I'm not mistaken

The Vultures are not legal in most events due to Forge World restrictions. They can be used in normal 40K, as most of the FW army lists (maybe all of them) are based on normal 40K rules. The latest rules can be found in Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2 where is says Vultures are Fast Skimmers in non-Apocalypse games.

That's why we have added another 40K event at MechaniCon 2010 - The Friday Night Fight. This will be a one day event where you can use Forge World army lists. No fliers/superheavies/gargantuans but you can use the lists in the FW books and play with favorite collections.

So they will be legal for the Friday event but not Saturday-Sunday Grand Tournament.

The army is looking great by the way!

The problem over all is the weapon load outs. You have mix and match weapons which have different ranges and different targets. For example a vendetta firing lascannons at armour 12 is ok but the heavy bolters do nothing, or against infantry the heavy bolters will cause havoc but the lascannons only a few kills.

You need to get weapon load outs more streamlined.

Storm troopers won't really need that transport like your troop choices might- they can already deep strike.

I see where you are trying to go here, but maybe take more valks instead of the vultures?

mercer wrote:The problem over all is the weapon load outs. You have mix and match weapons which have different ranges and different targets. For example a vendetta firing lascannons at armour 12 is ok but the heavy bolters do nothing, or against infantry the heavy bolters will cause havoc but the lascannons only a few kills.

You need to get weapon load outs more streamlined.

Ok....so should I drop the HB off the Vendettas? (they're not even built yet)

What about the squad loadouts?

Not to sound like a rube....I havent played in a long time and I apologize if I dont know the rules...

If my 3 Troop choices are all Veteran squads, can I not deep strike them with Grav Chutes? I'm a little confused by the new codex as to what's allowed and what isn't. It seems to me it was easier to follow when we had doctrines.

Again...thanks to everyone for your help.

Well personally I wouldn't. Think what your vendetta is shooting at, the answer is tanks and probably monstrous creatures. What can heavy bolters do to those? Nothing or very little. Just because they're a good buy doesn't mean you need them . They're best on a valkyrie which is also anti troop also.

Ok squad loads outs. I'll give you a example in the HQ. You have a meltagun and a missile launcher. Both are anti tank but to use the melta you need to get close, which means you cannot fire the missile because you cannot move and shoot. Range is another problem. This problem is in all your squads; they have no weapon synergy.

You only deep strike vets via grav chutes from a valkyrie.

Here's my guard list btw: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2009/12/army-lists-imperial-guard-steel-lions.html

mercer wrote:You only deep strike vets via grav chutes from a valkyrie.

So, in that regard, for my 3 squads of Veterans I would need to also purchase Valkyries so that I could Deep Strike them with grav chutes? Can they do this even as Grenadiers?

And in your example of the HQ...having a missile launcher and a melta gun....since they're loaded into a Vendetta, would you then just recommend dropping the ML so they can move and fire once they're deployed behind enemy lines (presuming that works)?

Your list seems very balanced and looks to be effective...I guess I'm trying to find a list for my Elysians without using tanks (I'll leave the tanks to me Krieg army)

I think I like the idea of expanding the Sentinels...I may add more if it's feasible.

Again...thanks for the feedback.

Yes mate you would need valkyries because it is the valkyrie which has the grav chute special rule; not the veterans.

Yes if you plan on putting them in the vendetta because when you jump out of vehicles you count as moving and you cannot move and fire heavy weapons. Btw if your meltas are popping tanks you need a "follow" up unit to take advantage of the survivors from inside the tank, a vendetta won't do much. Have you thought about a valkyrie with multiple missile pods and heavy bolters.

Sentinels with autocannons are good all rounders. Outflank to get to weak rear and side armour Bring a astropath (I think) for reserve bonus

mercer wrote:Yes mate you would need valkyries because it is the valkyrie which has the grav chute special rule; not the veterans.

Yes if you plan on putting them in the vendetta because when you jump out of vehicles you count as moving and you cannot move and fire heavy weapons. Btw if your meltas are popping tanks you need a "follow" up unit to take advantage of the survivors from inside the tank, a vendetta won't do much. Have you thought about a valkyrie with multiple missile pods and heavy bolters.

Sentinels with autocannons are good all rounders. Outflank to get to weak rear and side armour Bring a astropath (I think) for reserve bonus

Awesome! You're giving me pearls here, my friend!

I'll get together a new list with your tips and repost it.

Thanks Again.

No worries buddy. I await your updated list

Ok...here it is....Version 2

HQ - Command Squad
Veteran Officer - Captain Steele
Melta Gunner
Vox Operator
Frag & Krak Grenades
Carapace Armor
Fleet Officer
Astropath
Vendetta Gunship


TROOPS

RT-Alpha Veteran Squad
Grenadiers
Missile Launcher
Melta Gun
Plasma Gun
Vox
Valkyrie with Rocket Pods

RT-Bravo Veteran Squad
Grenadiers
Missile Launcher
Grenade Launcher
Flamer
Vox
Valkyrie with Rocket Pods


FAST ATTACK

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with Lascannons, HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with AutoCannons, HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with AutoCannons , HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers


HEAVY SUPPORT

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons


TOTAL POINTS: 1800



I guess my main question here is....If I take Valkyries as transports, do I have to count them on the Force Organization chart? The codex says dedicated transports don't count...bet yet it only lists the Chimera as a dedicated transport....so which is correct?

Just one meltagun in the CCS? They're not packing enough heat so pop more meltas in there. Also you don't need the vox because everything is in transports.

btw you cannot take vendettas or valkyries as dedicated support - they're fast attack only. So you have too many of fast attack choices.

In the vets don't take missile launcher, melta and plasma. If you're in a valkyrie you cannot move and shoot nor have a hatch to fire out so launcher is wasted. If you drop out you ahev so many mixed roles; launcher for vehicles and infantry, plasma for light vehicles and tough infantry and melta for tough vehicles and tough infantry. You need to sort out weapon synergy, say take 3 plasma guns or 3 meltas.

mercer wrote:btw you cannot take vendettas or valkyries as dedicated support - they're fast attack only. So you have too many of fast attack choices.

That's what I was afraid of.

I hear what your saying about the special weapons and the missile launchers.

I'll make my adjustments and repost.

Thanks again buddy.

N/P

Ok...Version 3. I'm think I'm pretty close on this one. Again, I dont know the exact up-to-date point values for the Vultures, so I'm flying a little blind on the Heavy Support.

HQ

Command Squad with Veteran Officer - Captain Steele
Melta Gunner x4
Frag & Krak Grenades
Carapace Armor
Fleet Officer
Astropath
Bodyguards (2)


TROOPS

RT-Alpha Veteran Squad
Grenadiers
Melta Gun x3

RT-Bravo Veteran Squad
Grenadiers
Plasma Gun x3


FAST ATTACK

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with Lascannons, HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers

Armored Sentinel Squadron (3)
All armed with AutoCannons, HK Missiles, & Smoke Launchers

Valkyrie Squadron (3)
Armed with Rocket Pods and Lascannons


HEAVY SUPPORT

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons

Vulture Gunship with Punisher Cannons

Vulture Gunship with Twin-Linked Lascannons & Hellstrike Missiles


TOTAL POINTS: 1825

What is the max points for the game you are planning on playing? I ask only because your total points keep changing.

1850....still feeling my way....been a long time since I compiled a list based on a theme...first time ever in fact now that I think of it.

I like the theme you are shooting for.

Just a thought - go Valkyries instead of vendettas. That
That weapon loadout gives you hoard control.

Load you vets with meltas that should provide you with your heavy AT.

Then a Vendetta or two providing overwatch AT fire on anything.

You should still have some points to float a wrinkle or three even with an HQ in a Chimera (hmm maybe they get the guy who calls in the naval bombardment).

<<Deleted duplication>>

I need another copy of the IA FAQs. My computer died and I did not have a backup of the FAQs and now we need to wait for FW to put the downloads up again. I will check if I have a print out at my workshop.

For now I have a couple comments for the list.

If you are using the IG codex, then yes, you need the Valks to deep strike. If you are using IA3 Elysian list then you get deep strike if you do not buy them transports. I think you may be better off using the new IG book and just take the Vultures as Heavies. I will have to check if I have the FAQs again because there were a ton of updates for the 5th edition IG book.

Also, the Vultures total up to 430 as you have them configured.

IMO, those Sentinels want to be Scout, not Armored. The thought of that type of alpha strike on the SIDE armor?
And that gets you 90 pts for something else... I'd go with a HWS w/ 3xAC, myself. (75, add the remaining 15 to taste)

Tironum wrote:Also, the Vultures total up to 430 as you have them configured.

Awesome...that's exactly how I have it calculated as well.

Thanks buddy.

You've only got 2 troops units buddy so objective games will be hard, and all your valkyries are in one squad - so the valkyries must fire at the same target and must be within unit coherrency, this will make things difficult as your jets will be altogether and you cannot spread and attack multiple targets which are spaced out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You've only got 2 troops units buddy so objective games will be hard, and all your valkyries are in one squad - so the valkyries must fire at the same target and must be within unit coherrency, this will make things difficult as your jets will be altogether and you cannot spread and attack multiple targets which are spaced out.

This list is proving to be difficult. I just ordered IA8 which has a full Elysian list included.

I think I'll start from scratch once I have that in hand.