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I was skimming through the Ultramarines codex (oops,did I say that??), and I happened to stumble onto the UM's chapter organization chart (no page number,give me a break!It's late), and it only mentions them having 13 or so land raiders....Why such a low number?

I always assumed the UM's had at least a couple hundred land raiders (maybe 1 for every hundred marines). I understand how rare they are,considering the fluff for them always refers to them as close to dreadnoughts in importance,but really? Only 13?

The various artwork for ultra's (which is roughly 80% of all GW artwork) portrays them as expendable,mass transports that will most likely get destroyed in battle (The carnifex crushing a LR on the old Nid Battleforce comes to mind...). If I had 13 land raiders in an army of thousands, I doubt I'd take them out of the garage,much less throwing them into a pile of raging orks or chaos marines (which would imply that chaos only has like 4 land raiders, if my math is unincorrect, but that's a different matter entirely)

Thanks,I'm hoping to read some good answers *that don't complain about ultras,kthnx*

They lost alot of their land raiders cuz we chaos came and stold them all while they were sleeping. We'll be back for your land speeders when we get our new codex.

Because Guilliman said Not to have so many.

The Reason others like the Nova Marines or the SW have so many is because they tell Rowboat to stick it where the sun don't shine.

It isn't an army of thousands. They are rigid. That means 1000. Land raiders are theoretically as rare as dreads and revered similarly. Tactical marines can be replaced, Land raiders are like a magic artifact to them.

They have enough fluff armor, we don't need Ultra-landraiders

13 raiders actually is more than one per hundred battle brothers. A chapter is only about a thousand. Yes, that does mean it's possible for a largish gaming group to possess more Ultramarines miniatures than there are marines in the Ultramarines chapter. Unrelated, one of the reasons that Dark Angels and Blood Angels have more of certain pieces of kit (Terminator armor, Land Raiders, and Thunderhawks) is that the Ultramarines split off many more successor chapters in the second founding. In the process they emptied out their legionary arsenal to equip the new chapters while less prolific first founding chapters retained much of their original equipment.

The Blood Angel codex goes in a little into depth about most chapters are considered lucky to have 5. Blood Angels have 43 which their techmarines can't figure how to overcharge their engines to keep up with the rest of their vehicles. The two reasons they were blessed with so many was Sanguinius was the right hand man to the emperor and the Blood Angels gained favorable standing with Adeptus Mechanicus for reclaiming a stolen Emperor Titan intact.

But BAs also pissed them off by hoarding the Baal pred for themselves. The Titan was part of their reparations (but they still wanna keep their toy to themselves).

I think that Mars has the STC for the Land Raider (y/n anyone?) so they aren't impossible to replace. It's just that there's so many chapters to make them for. Also, Ultramarines are awesome so they don't need 50 landraiders to get the job done.

Share the LR love! Pity us chaos guys with our single pattern of LR that only holds 5 termies.


/sniff

That's what you get for being Heretical scum!

Though to be fair, Spess Puppeh and Blangles Godhammer Land Raiders also can only carry 5 termies.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I always assumed the UM's had at least a couple hundred land raiders (maybe 1 for every hundred marines).

1 for every hundred marines would mean they only had 10...

insaniak wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I always assumed the UM's had at least a couple hundred land raiders (maybe 1 for every hundred marines).

1 for every hundred marines would mean they only had 10...

15.12 actually.

Only if they're at full strength... and then only if the interpretation you linked to is correct...

Surtur wrote:But BAs also pissed them off by hoarding the Baal pred for themselves. The Titan was part of their reparations (but they still wanna keep their toy to themselves).

I think that Mars has the STC for the Land Raider (y/n anyone?) so they aren't impossible to replace. It's just that there's so many chapters to make them for. Also, Ultramarines are awesome so they don't need 50 landraiders to get the job done.

This entire post is win.

I'm sure Mars has some way to make more of them,like you said,but ceramite is apparently hard to come by in th 41st millenium.....Although,the empire owns "millions" of worlds so I'm sure they could fine some lying around...

Thanks for the posts! Lets keep this going, I need more,more,more!

Probably, they have enough to field a dedicated transport for every squad of veterans they have with Terminator Honours (here I'm assuming that a few of the 1st company don't regularly deploy in terminator armor).

Gwar! wrote:That's what you get for being Heretical scum!

Though to be fair, Spess Puppeh and Blangles Godhammer Land Raiders also can only carry 5 termies.

Even in their new codecies? Wow, i didn't know that. Do their LR-C and LR-Rs have reduced trasnsport as well?

Praxiss wrote:

Gwar! wrote:That's what you get for being Heretical scum!

Though to be fair, Spess Puppeh and Blangles Godhammer Land Raiders also can only carry 5 termies.

Even in their new codecies? Wow, i didn't know that. Do their LR-C and LR-Rs have reduced trasnsport as well?

Only the Standard Land Raider went back to 10 models. The LRR and LRC have the same capacity as the Rowboat Marines ones.

Huh, weird.

Something more interesting is that the Blood Angels get three Thunderhawk Transporters lists for their entire Chapter. That's three aerospace vehicles capable of transporting Rhinos and Land Raiders to the surface in the entire chapter. Makes you wonder what happens when they get shot down.

Haha Rowboat guilliman

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I always assumed the UM's had at least a couple hundred land raiders (maybe 1 for every hundred marines).

1 for every hundred marines would mean they only had 10...

15.12 actually.

Impressive (though I kinda already new it was something near there).

Now try working out the BT - they're the equivelant of about 6 chapters I should think, if I remember correctly. That's quite a few LR's.

How many landraiders do you need? One for each veteran squad and three spare ones - that ought to do it.

Scott-S6 wrote:How many landraiders do you need? One for each veteran squad and three spare ones - that ought to do it.

Remember, LRs can only actually carry just over half a full termi squad.

But not all vet squads will be wearing tda.

I was a little surprised by that. But it has been 10,000 years and I'm sure they just plain lost alot of them in battle.

The smurfs do have a lot of suits of TDA. 74, according to the 3rd edition codex. By my brief calculations, that would require 15 normal LR's. Yes, others have different transport capacity and whatnot.

But, because the 1st company maintain a pool of LR's, it doesn't state how many. So, it is possible they have 100, or 10.

Common sense wise, it would make sense that they have 15 LR's (or equivelant) for all their TDA suits, but on the other hand, every Terminator suit they have is quite unlikely to be occupied at the same time in the same place. So maybe they have about 5 LR's or something?

But some of the vets will be in power armour as stern or van squads.

And some of the TDA squads will be deepstriking.

There are plenty to go around.

They're not always gonna be DS, are they? And it does say the LR's are specifically for the TDA's.

Not sure too much on the math or fluff, but remember that the Ultramarines were pretty devastated by Hive Fleet Behemoth, and they've mentioned that only now is the 1st company recovering. If 13 is a low number for a chapter, it could simply be due to irreparable damage that has not been rectified by the Mechanicus.

The Ultramarines have take a massive beating, not to mention they arent as tech-savy as some of the other chapters. Being ultra comes at a price: high rate of attrition. They dont have the resorces of say the Salamanders, who are all blacksmiths and repair their own gear, and might be sitting on the biggest stash of goods in the galaxy.