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The rarity of LRs makes it all the more ridiculous that Matt Ward has BA's dropping them out of the sky...

I always thought the 1000 marines meant 1000 in combat with about 2000 in reserve or training and about 5 TH and bout 15 LR in reserve/construction. I know its a bit far fetched explanation but its the only one which makes sense. Bit of stupid thinking on GW's part if you ask me

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:The Ultramarines have take a massive beating, not to mention they arent as tech-savy as some of the other chapters. Being ultra comes at a price: high rate of attrition. They dont have the resorces of say the Salamanders, who are all blacksmiths and repair their own gear, and might be sitting on the biggest stash of goods in the galaxy.

*sigh*

I would have a lot less of a problem with the smurfs if the codex would mention more on their defeats and just exactly how bad the extent of the Battle for Macragge was. Infact, they barely touch on the subject in the SM codex! "oh looksies nids, they killed our veterans but our other company's pwn dem. Oh looksies big nid fleet I knowz lets blow up a big ship in the middle that will obviously destroy them all. Boom they're all dead we only lost a big ship and 100 veterans. Pfft!"

In the nid dex, they actually put so much more light onto it, which is good, but should've been in the SM 'dex. I realize that they're trying to promote each 'dex through its fluff, but making the smurfs seem infalable to the newbies until they buy a nid dex just isn't right. The 'dex needs to show that the smurfs aren't invincible, I mean it just makes them look so powerful and amazing and the CF's seem all craptastic and terribad.

Tbh, just as a side note, quite a lot of the fluff in the SM codex is crap anyways... anything ultramarine + the bit about that stupid 'fists missile is and always has been bad.

Also, as you were saying about sallies 'n' whatnot, all the SM dex does really is say "ultramarines awesome, Crimson-craptastic-fists suck, and there's Raven Guard, Imp fists and Sallies in the middle who are okay but we don't learn hardly anything about them in the fluff".

Well, that's my rant done.

Now, back to land raiders...

i think tis because they are to awesome to own them they can win without em

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:The Ultramarines have take a massive beating, not to mention they arent as tech-savy as some of the other chapters. Being ultra comes at a price: high rate of attrition. They dont have the resorces of say the Salamanders, who are all blacksmiths and repair their own gear, and might be sitting on the biggest stash of goods in the galaxy.

*sigh*

I would have a lot less of a problem with the smurfs if the codex would mention more on their defeats and just exactly how bad the extent of the Battle for Macragge was. Infact, they barely touch on the subject in the SM codex! "oh looksies nids, they killed our veterans but our other company's pwn dem. Oh looksies big nid fleet I knowz lets blow up a big ship in the middle that will obviously destroy them all. Boom they're all dead we only lost a big ship and 100 veterans. Pfft!"

In the nid dex, they actually put so much more light onto it, which is good, but should've been in the SM 'dex. I realize that they're trying to promote each 'dex through its fluff, but making the smurfs seem infalable to the newbies until they buy a nid dex just isn't right. The 'dex needs to show that the smurfs aren't invincible, I mean it just makes them look so powerful and amazing and the CF's seem all craptastic and terribad.

Tbh, just as a side note, quite a lot of the fluff in the SM codex is crap anyways... anything ultramarine + the bit about that stupid 'fists missile is and always has been bad.

Also, as you were saying about sallies 'n' whatnot, all the SM dex does really is say "ultramarines awesome, Crimson-craptastic-fists suck, and there's Raven Guard, Imp fists and Sallies in the middle who are okay but we don't learn hardly anything about them in the fluff".

Well, that's my rant done.

Now, back to land raiders...

I also liked that bit of information in the Nid codex. It was a great morale boost to explain how awesome Marneus Calgar is! That whole 3+ page history of mcragge just made me like the Ultramarines more!

Calgar > Swarmlord

Ultra ultra....
They are ancient chapter and I think they should have alot more. Or It is because they are repairing it all in the maccrage fortress.

Basically the Entire Ultramarine chapter still has alot of stuff in reserve not only that they have like 2/3 of all active chapters are from them. And if they said ok screw the Codex. Probaly all the 2/3 get back together and kick ass.

I can still imagine the mechanicus making more land raiders (or whoever is making tanks for the sm's).
Power armor and geneseeds are from the GAoT,and they still find ways to create these with relative ease. Is a large tank that hard to create? They make enormous space hulks (or just ships in general) all the time for the Imperial navy, which are thousands of times larger than land raiders.

Obviously,resources are not even a slight problem to the imperium,so what stops them from making the best resources available to them?

This applies to the imperium as a whole. Why make chimeras when you can have a baneblade? Why use rhinos when you can have immolators? Why use chainswords wwhen you can have power swords?

Praxiss wrote:Share the LR love! Pity us chaos guys with our single pattern of LR that only holds 5 termies.


/sniff

No, its your own fault.

all those spiky and/or slimy bits took up all the room.

besides, do you really want to fit more then 5 nurgle termies in a LR at once

Its alos because they have grey knight termies and other vehicles no other army has btw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and as ive said before maybe becaused they are ownage without em

chaos doesn't have Grey knights!

i think you have codex's confused

IIRC the Codex Astartes says that Land Raiders are to be used as dedicated transports for terminator squads... so I believe you're not allowed more than the number of veteran squads in the first company? I may be talking rubbish.

Ah wait, Lexicanum backs me up:

"According to the organizational guidelines laid down by the Codex Astartes, the Land Raider is only used by the 1st Company of a Space Marine chapter. However, some less orthodox chapters are known to use it more widely. The Salamanders chapter uses an altered version of the Codex Astartes with 12 squads in the 1st company instead of 10, increasing the maximum number of Land Raiders available to them."

So you may never have more than the number of squads you have in the 1st Company, I was right

awwww, who actually takes ol'Rowboat seriously?

Landraiders for everyone.

Henners91 wrote:IIRC the Codex Astartes says that Land Raiders are to be used as dedicated transports for terminator squads... so I believe you're not allowed more than the number of veteran squads in the first company? I may be talking rubbish.

Ah wait, Lexicanum backs me up:

"According to the organizational guidelines laid down by the Codex Astartes, the Land Raider is only used by the 1st Company of a Space Marine chapter. However, some less orthodox chapters are known to use it more widely. The Salamanders chapter uses an altered version of the Codex Astartes with 12 squads in the 1st company instead of 10, increasing the maximum number of Land Raiders available to them."

So you may never have more than the number of squads you have in the 1st Company, I was right

You do realise that the codex astrates must also allow for relief Land Raiders or spares for Damaged ones too. To think otherwise means that Rowboat had ZERO idea of what a war is.

For my own personal background purposes I like to imagine that the Legions were never disbanded, and that they're composed of Chapters. I also like to add in some ranks and organizational steps, such as Captains having at least three Lieutenants reporting to them as Platoon Commanders, with more depending on whether additional elements are assigned to their task force.

Squad Commander = Brother-Sergeant
Platoon Command = Brother-Lieutenant
Company Commander = Brother-Captain
Chapter Commander = Brother-Commander
Legion Commander = Primarch

Of course in my personal re-write of the background being a Primarch simply makes you an astartes-variant human with the abilities to rise through the ranks to the command of a Space Marine Legion.

Of course, I started playing when my brother and I opened a 2nd edition Epic Space Marine box, and you could field formations like Land Raider Companies, or Devastator Companies, composed of three detachments and a command element.

Why's that relevant?

MekanobSamael wrote:Probably, they have enough to field a dedicated transport for every squad of veterans they have with Terminator Honours (here I'm assuming that a few of the 1st company don't regularly deploy in terminator armor).

1st Company includes sternguard and vanguard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:The Ultramarines have take a massive beating, not to mention they arent as tech-savy as some of the other chapters. Being ultra comes at a price: high rate of attrition. They dont have the resorces of say the Salamanders, who are all blacksmiths and repair their own gear, and might be sitting on the biggest stash of goods in the galaxy.

*sigh*

I would have a lot less of a problem with the smurfs if the codex would mention more on their defeats and just exactly how bad the extent of the Battle for Macragge was. Infact, they barely touch on the subject in the SM codex! "oh looksies nids, they killed our veterans but our other company's pwn dem. Oh looksies big nid fleet I knowz lets blow up a big ship in the middle that will obviously destroy them all. Boom they're all dead we only lost a big ship and 100 veterans. Pfft!"

In the nid dex, they actually put so much more light onto it, which is good, but should've been in the SM 'dex. I realize that they're trying to promote each 'dex through its fluff, but making the smurfs seem infalable to the newbies until they buy a nid dex just isn't right. The 'dex needs to show that the smurfs aren't invincible, I mean it just makes them look so powerful and amazing and the CF's seem all craptastic and terribad.

Tbh, just as a side note, quite a lot of the fluff in the SM codex is crap anyways... anything ultramarine + the bit about that stupid 'fists missile is and always has been bad.

Also, as you were saying about sallies 'n' whatnot, all the SM dex does really is say "ultramarines awesome, Crimson-craptastic-fists suck, and there's Raven Guard, Imp fists and Sallies in the middle who are okay but we don't learn hardly anything about them in the fluff".

Well, that's my rant done.

Now, back to land raiders...

I also liked that bit of information in the Nid codex. It was a great morale boost to explain how awesome Marneus Calgar is! That whole 3+ page history of mcragge just made me like the Ultramarines more!

Calgar > Swarmlord

Honestly?????? The only reason he SURVIVED that battle is because all the body guards jumped in, died, then all the little dudes jumped in so Calgar could escape to space. He almost did NOT make it.

Henners91 wrote:IIRC the Codex Astartes says that Land Raiders are to be used as dedicated transports for terminator squads... so I believe you're not allowed more than the number of veteran squads in the first company? I may be talking rubbish.

Ah wait, Lexicanum backs me up:

"According to the organizational guidelines laid down by the Codex Astartes, the Land Raider is only used by the 1st Company of a Space Marine chapter. However, some less orthodox chapters are known to use it more widely. The Salamanders chapter uses an altered version of the Codex Astartes with 12 squads in the 1st company instead of 10, increasing the maximum number of Land Raiders available to them."

So you may never have more than the number of squads you have in the 1st Company, I was right

I know the Blood Angels don't strictly adhere to the Codex, but they definitely ignored it on that one. They have 43 Land Raiders, and an equally ridiculous number of dreadnoughts IIRC.

It seems the Ultramarines are suffering from the credit crunch

you see Rowboat spent so much money on his fancy marble throneroom/tomb that it bankrupted Ultramar and the Mechanicus reposessed most of the chapters LRs and the BAs and BTs took over the payments.

No, see this is where you're all getting confused. The Ultramarines are the foremost proficient force in the entirety of 40k. They simply don't need that many Land Raiders! Source from White Dwarf.


edit

Actually, sorry everyone. I should put a medical disclaimer on that link...

WARNING - above link contains Matt Ward's opinion. Doctors warn that exposure to Matt Ward's opinion could result in cerebral palsy, epilepsy or cancer of brain. Pregnant women and non-pregnant women and men should seek urgent medical attention if they come into contact with Matt Ward's opinion.

felixthecat345 wrote:I always thought the 1000 marines meant 1000 in combat with about 2000 in reserve or training and about 5 TH and bout 15 LR in reserve/construction. I know its a bit far fetched explanation but its the only one which makes sense. Bit of stupid thinking on GW's part if you ask me

nope, there is exactly 1000 marines in a chapter ideally. (except Space Wolves and Black Templars because they just don't give a crap). In the last codex they've retconed it so that scouts don't count towards that number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rube wrote:No, see this is where you're all getting confused. The Ultramarines are the foremost proficient force in the entirety of 40k. They simply don't need that many Land Raiders! Source from White Dwarf.


edit

Actually, sorry everyone. I should put a medical disclaimer on that link...

WARNING - above link contains Matt Ward's opinion. Doctors warn that exposure to Matt Ward's opinion could result in cerebral palsy, epilepsy or cancer of brain. Pregnant women and non-pregnant women and men should seek urgent medical attention if they come into contact with Matt Ward's opinion.

No, that really is the story. It makes sense in the 40K universe. Ultramarines are the best soldiers in the Galaxy. If you don't like them that's fine but the story is the story.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

felixthecat345 wrote:I always thought the 1000 marines meant 1000 in combat with about 2000 in reserve or training and about 5 TH and bout 15 LR in reserve/construction. I know its a bit far fetched explanation but its the only one which makes sense. Bit of stupid thinking on GW's part if you ask me

nope, there is exactly 1000 marines in a chapter ideally. (except Space Wolves and Black Templars because they just don't give a crap). In the last codex they've retconed it so that scouts don't count towards that number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rube wrote:No, see this is where you're all getting confused. The Ultramarines are the foremost proficient force in the entirety of 40k. They simply don't need that many Land Raiders! Source from White Dwarf.


edit

Actually, sorry everyone. I should put a medical disclaimer on that link...

WARNING - above link contains Matt Ward's opinion. Doctors warn that exposure to Matt Ward's opinion could result in cerebral palsy, epilepsy or cancer of brain. Pregnant women and non-pregnant women and men should seek urgent medical attention if they come into contact with Matt Ward's opinion.

No, that really is the story. It makes sense in the 40K universe. Ultramarines are the best soldiers in the Galaxy. If you don't like them that's fine but the story is the story.

They're only the "best" because GW said so. And you believe them. And we all know how GW likes screwing around with the fluff...

"Greatest chapter... Girlymans book.. etc etc. If it'd been say, the Imperial Fists over in the eastern fringe instead of the smurfs, then the fists would probably end up having the same thing said about them... but I doubt GW would want the banana marines as the greatest symbol of their company.

The smurfs just have one of the nicest colour schemes out there, and so people think they look awesome, so they sell easier. It's just marketing.


Anyway, again, back to LR's...

Considering that most, if not all, of the ultramarines first founding chapters would fight beside the smurfs anyday anyhow, kinda makes up for it because they can all bring along their AV14 beauties.

(EDIT: The smurfs will just take all the credit for any tag-team victory anyways. There'll be like a massive page detailing a battle or something, showing all the glory of the spehss smurfs - and on the last line it'll say, "oh, and BTW, the Novamarines helped a bit.")

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No, that really is the story. It makes sense in the 40K universe. Ultramarines are the best soldiers in the Galaxy. If you don't like them that's fine but the story is the story.

Well, of course! There are all those important battles they won, like the battle for Macragge and... others! Or their invaluable aid during the HH wherein they... sat it out and wrote a book.

Wait a minute, have the Ultramarines ever done anything for the Imperium that didn't involve saving their own skin? I can't think of a single war that didn't threaten their homeworld that they contributed to in any meaningful way!

Rube wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No, that really is the story. It makes sense in the 40K universe. Ultramarines are the best soldiers in the Galaxy. If you don't like them that's fine but the story is the story.

Well, of course! There are all those important battles they won, like the battle for Macragge and... others! Or their invaluable aid during the HH wherein they... sat it out and wrote a book.

Wait a minute, have the Ultramarines ever done anything for the Imperium that didn't involve saving their own skin? I can't think of a single war that didn't threaten their homeworld that they contributed to in any meaningful way!

Well, captain sh**arius lead a crusade mostly made up of other chapters against the Tau... but good ol' lord macragge decided it'd be better to just NOT wipe out the Tau empire, and let them rebuild their strength again 'n' stuff. Good ol'smurfs doin' their thing... being useless.

They do truly take after their Primarch, Rowboat Girlyman, after all.

uh ok. You guys act as though the Ultramarines have done you some personal insult. Its not real!

I love how guy up there is like "only GW says they're the best". Uh ya...its their story. That's like saying only DC Comics thinks Superman has laser beams coming out of his eyes. People may disagree but I'm going with Dc and GW on this one.