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Howdy Dakkites!

Just swinging by to drop a couple questions on you, i've been reading through my space marine codex and have formulated some new opinions on things, but some remain. Hurricane Bolters....are they good? Personally i dont really see the apeal in 3 twin linked bolters as a weapon on a vehicle, single shots till your close then a rapid fire...6 bolter shots arent horribly devastating. But if anyone could open my eyes to their potential awesomeness/usefulness it would be you all! (I was weighing the hurricane bolter thing with an Ironclad dreadnought, thinking about the optioned tradeoff)


The other question is the reverse of the last question, I like Land Raider redeemers alot, more so than the other variants. And while I do like them, i'm fearful that there is some glaring weakness in them that i havnt spotted yet, so your opinions on this one would be good too. I like the idea of trudging across the board popping transpots and lightly armored vehicle with the assault cannon till I delivered my payload into the assault, and a flamer template breakfast for the rest of the game until there isnt anything close.


I'd go on but I have the new Legends of the space marines book to read, you all get the jist and I look forward to your opinions!

The cool thing about hurricane bolters (aside from the 12 twin linked shots you'll get to shoot in rapid fire range) is that they're strength 4, and therefore defensive weapons. This means you can move 6", fire the assault cannons, AND fire the hurricane bolters. On Land Raider Crusaders, these are pretty awesome. On a dreadnought they're pretty underwhelming though. I would rather take a second DCCW, as I doubt a few twin linked bolters will deliver the same amount of hurt.

I strongly agree on your opinions with both LR's but the increased transport capacity in the Crusader means that you can still fit that 15 strong Blood Claw unit in their with a Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Pack Leader

A LR Crusader can sit back at 12-24 and deliver 6 twin linked bolter shots in addition to the assault cannon. A Redeemer will have to get up close to use it's side sponsons. Here's the thing: as a terminator delivery system, chances are you're bringing it close to the enemy making the hurricane bolters laughable compared to a flamestorm template and lascannons are long range. Any way they're going into crispy range of meltas. Now if you used it differently than as a terminator rhino, say putting Sternguard inside and supplementing their firepower with the Land Raider's I'd say the basic LR or the Crusader would be better.

ProfitOfTheWaaagh!!! wrote:I strongly agree on your opinions with both LR's but the increased transport capacity in the Crusader means that you can still fit that 15 strong Blood Claw unit in their with a Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Pack Leader

QFT

Whichever variant you get always, always, always buy the Multimelta upgrade for it. This gives you your best option of popping your opponents Land Raider or equivalent and after you have delivered your payload you can target inf with the side sponsors and assault cannons and using PoMS can target armour with the MM. Simples.

Personnaly I have run both, I run a Redeemer in my Smurfs because I put 5 Assault Terminators and a counts as Vulkan in it so I don't need the extra transport capability and a Crusader in my Wolves because it delivers a Wolf Priest, WG and 13 Blood Claws (or Ragnar and 14 Bloodclaws). I have noticed that the Redeemer can be totally underwhelming in a lot of games because it gets destroyed before it can use its Flamestorm cannons, since this is the Land raider you need to play most aggressively with then it does become a bit vulnerable. Having said that when the Flamestorm cannons do hit something then they kill it.

The best advice I can give is that a LRC with MM always delivers the LRR delivers some of the time but when it does it delivers BIG.

Good Luck

Crusaders are probably the best Land Raider variant there is, assuming you're using it as a transport and not fire support. Massive capacity plus defensive hurricane bolter weapons means you can move and spit out a lot of fire-power. Add the pintle multimelta and using PoTMS you can target nearby tanks in addition for popping.

Standard (sometimes called 'Godhammer') Land Raiders are better for hanging back and shooting things, with the option of a transport capacity should you need it. Redeemers are a little bit odd. The problem with Redeemers is that unless you were smart and modelled the Flamestorm cannons towards the front of the land raider rather than the back, it's hard to target a single unit with both cannons. Instead, it's best to smash into the enemy, flamestorm one unit with the cannon on one side, then PoTMS to target the other cannon at a different unit on the other side. As mentioned, the multimelta pintle is too good value not to take.

Redeemers have an additional few problems. Firstly, people seem disproportionately scared of them, and they tend to die quickly. Secondly, if you're in Flamestorm cannon range, you're also in range of getting melta-d / chainfisted, which coupled with the first point, tends to see them dead very fast.

Unless they're orks.
In which they're dead.

?

As stated before the strength of the crusader lies in its increased transport capacity and that the hurricane bolters are defensive weapons. This means if you want to assault an enemy infantry unit:

You can move forward 6"
Disembark your terminators (Or what have you)
Fire assault cannon
Fire Hurricane bolters (Rapid fire, assuming you are in range for assault)
POMS the Multi-melta you should have on there (Either at same or perhaps a better target)
Fire with your infantry (If capable of following up with an assault)
Assault the now weakened unit

Not much can survive that which is why I love the crusader.

But is the 10pts of difference between the the LRC and the LRR mean people will favour the redeemer or will they just suck it up and move on.

At my club people tend to use Redeemers because we have a lot of MEQ list players. You still get the Assault Cannon on the Redeemer.

IMO the Redeemer is better because of the Flamestorm cannons (ahh AP3!!) because (with my off the head math hammer) I believe you will kill more at the 8"-12" range than with Hurricane Bolters. Im sorry if this doesn't sound right i have no flamer template handy rite now.

I like the Crusader because it's the one Land Raider variant that knows exactly what it wants to do. It knows it wants to be a battle taxi and get troops into assault ASAP. The Redeemer wants to chase down infantry in cover, but it also wants to carry guys, but it doesn't carry as many! Then the standard Land Raider, which has no idea what it wants to do.

Crusader is where it's at.