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I've been playing space wolves for about a month and a half now, and I have yet to play 5th edition tyranids. However, I have a game against a 1000pt 5th edition nid player next week, and one thing that concerns me is how to deal with a Hive Tyrant. From what I've seen, he does a 2 Hive Guard + Hive Tyrant + Warrior Prime group. I'm a bit baffled over how to take this down, between the Tyrant's Toughness of 6, the 2+ save from the shell, and the regenerating wounds. Add that feel no pain power from the Tervigon on top of that, and it looks like it would take forever to kill. I know I could jaws it, but he absolutely refuses to play my army if I have rune priests with Jaws in it. If it helps, here is my list below:

Rune Priest-living lightning and murderous hurricane

3 Grey Hunter Squads:

Wolf Guard with Combi Melta and Powerfist
8 Grey Hunters, Powerfist, Meltagun, Wolf Standard and Mark of Wulfen
Rhino APC transport

Long Fangs Pack:
1 sergeant, 5 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers

Well, with no upgrades aside from the one's you've listed, that's 430 points. Your best bet is probably to kill everything else, tervigon first.

Another option is to try to catch it in a multi-assault, preferably with gants, and kill it through no retreat. It's gonna be rough, though, because the tyrant and prime can dish out the damage.

Other than that, it's just a big old rock unit, close to half his army. With the Tervigon support, it's about 2/3. It won't be easy to kill, but if you do, you'll probably win.

If he's refusing to play you if you use a certain psychic power tell him you refuse to play against it in 1k. I'll never play somebody who tells me they won't play me if I bring a certain item.

Also drive around it and smack down all the other models in his list.

Hulksmash wrote:If he's refusing to play you if you use a certain psychic power tell him you refuse to play against it in 1k. I'll never play somebody who tells me they won't play me if I bring a certain item.

Also drive around it and smack down all the other models in his list.

Yeah, or pick something random from his army that he can't use. Honestly, I wouldn't even waste my time playing against someone who imposes such childish restrictions on the game.

Deathpsyker wrote:I know I could jaws it, but he absolutely refuses to play my army if I have rune priests with Jaws in it.

Play my Land raider/Terminators Deathwing list- but i refuse to play if you have any weapon that is AP1 or 2.


Seriously, tell him to grow a set.

Jihallah wrote:

Deathpsyker wrote:I know I could jaws it, but he absolutely refuses to play my army if I have rune priests with Jaws in it.

Seriously, tell him to grow a set.

This was my first thought. He is bring a deathstar unit and you are prohibited from using a psychic power? What a crock...

Jaws isn't even that effective against a Hive Tyrant anyway, with his high Initative it only works on a roll of 6. Tell the 'Nid player to man up. :p

As for beating it, it's an expensive unit that leaves little points to spend on other stuff. It's also slow, and its firepower is generally bad; expensive, short ranges, low volume of fire and/or AP that can't even get through your Power Armour. Try to outmaneuver it while you shoot up the rest of his army.

That's difficult.
A coordinated strike is the only option.
Otherwise, try to avoid it.

Yeah that's absolute crap. I don't see the point. I play with my mate, he uses Eldar and I use my puppies too. We agreed to play armies with a 2nd level HQ choice, like a rune priest opposed to a named character. So when we say 1000 I wait for him to get his list done, once I see the Avatar of Khaine, on comes my Wolf Lord, designed to shut it down.

Best bet. Change up the missile launchers to maybe 3 las cannons and 2 bolters cause it is big bug, if its infantry. 3 bolters and 2 las cannons. They will restrict his armor saves for the tyrant, yeah he has invul but still it 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound. can't go wrong. then use the HB on like anything that you can get in range with Gotta love split fire.

Good luck. Let us know how you go

Tell him you won't play him if he brings X unit then. Two can play at that stupid game.

Just don't play people like that.

*nod* That restriction isn't that far away from bringing a Land Raider against Tau, but refusing to play if they have any Railguns. He's basically said "I want to use my biggest, meanest unit, and you're not allowed the most effective counter to it."

One nice tricksy idea - Lukas the Trickster. See how his Tyrant likes being frozen in eternity!

I have a friend who refuses to play "friendly" games if i put the Doom of Malan'Tai in my army list. It is quite childish, he claims it is very undercosted and that it shouldn't be allowed to kill things just by standing next to them. He is 26, almost 27 years old I might add (i'm 26).

We are prepping for 'Ard Boyz on wednesday and I've warned him ahead of time that i'm using my competitive list, and the doom is in it. Here's hoping he doesn't act as he has in the past.

To the OP, I play tyranids and I have to say that if you want to win, just stay away from CC with the tyrant and kill his other units. Echoing previous posters isn't all that helpful, but they've hit the nail spot-on. A tervigon is our ace-in-the-hole in objective missions, so killing it (and subsequently wiping out all the little gants nearby) with missile launchers is a good tactic, especially if you get first turn. Lay some thick fire on that thing and watch it pop like a tick under a magnifying glass.

I feel ashamed...i'm helping to kill the very bugs i love!

To be fair, I see where he is coming from.

He sounds like a gigantic prick, but I really don't want to see my 200 points worth of a carnifex dropped with almost nothing.

A wolf lord on a thunderwolf, with a thunder hammer and storm shield would win one vs. one against the tyrant, but you would need to support him with another thunderwolf or two to make sure.

The tyrant itself cannot join the warriors or any other unit except tyrant guard, so you could pick him out unless the other nids are screening for him.

A long fang pack with missile launchers should be able to blow a nice chunk of the warriors out of the way in that case.

Hive Tyrant have no invul save, nor does it have the option for an invul save upgrade is just stupid.

Force weapon says ID to Tyranid MC.

Make sure you take full advantage on one of their codex failures.

Saga of the Beastslayer!

Ive been refusing to play against a friends 3 rune priest 3 long fang missile team wolf army til I get my army going, but to refuse to play against any jaws is just sad. Also, wolf lord with saga of the beast slayer, or warrior born with a hammer or wolf claws on wolf will munch nids

I must second all the opinions that your friend is atrocious.

Show up with JotWW in your list and offer him the opportunity to forfeit due to being a nincompoop. Then you auto-win and spare yourself the 1-3 hours needed to demonstrate that the new tyranid codex sucks.

i think the new bug book is decent, but not against wolves

Well, that is a pretty silly restriction, physic powers are just part of the game. My suggestion to you however, is to play big money right back at him. If he doesn't want to fall in a pit that is fine. My suggestion is Thunderwolves Calvary. Lead them with Space Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf. You can give them all Storm Shields if you want along with frost blades, and that should just about eat that unit. That should do decently, and has much more staying power then his.

UM Why not just spam las fangs? the entire unit will go down. unless he has a venomthrope.

Why Las? They don't have a 2+ save and s8 kills t6 just as well as s9. Save points and go for ML's instead, point for point I fear 3 units of fangs with 5 ML per squad more than I fear a unit that is slow and only useful in melee.

15 ML shots, 10 hits, 8.333 wounds, 8.333 dead out of cover. That unit even if it spreads wounds over the 3 wound groups will still lose a guard the first turn. Next turn the entire unit dies. Then you're free to kill the Tervigon and frag his remaining gaunts.

Norade wrote:Why Las? They don't have a 2+ save and s8 kills t6 just as well as s9. Save points and go for ML's instead, point for point I fear 3 units of fangs with 5 ML per squad more than I fear a unit that is slow and only useful in melee.

15 ML shots, 10 hits, 8.333 wounds, 8.333 dead out of cover. That unit even if it spreads wounds over the 3 wound groups will still lose a guard the first turn. Next turn the entire unit dies. Then you're free to kill the Tervigon and frag his remaining gaunts.

The OP mentioned his opponent using the 2+ save upgrade for his Tyrant, and cover is pretty easy to get by a Tyrant with Guard, all you need is a few Gaunts to stand in front of the Guard. The Tervigon could just Feel No Pain itself or his deathstar unit.

In your example of 8 1/3 wounds, that would be ~2 wounds per model on his unit, which would average in 1 wound on the Prime, 1 dead Tyrant Guard and nothing on the Tyrant. Next round you probably off the remaining Guard and maybe the Prime. The Tyrant is probably still unscathed, so now it'll take 45 missiles on average to kill the Tyrant, or 3 rounds of shooting if you still have all your MLs.

FNP would drastically reduce the damage income on the unit even more, but of course, if he FNPs the deathstar unit, you can concentrate fire on the Tervigon.

What I really hate is how some people concentrate so much on winning that they never realize how much you can improve your game by playing a bad match-up or playing with a weaker army. You don't get better by winning all of your games.

Redemption wrote:

Norade wrote:Why Las? They don't have a 2+ save and s8 kills t6 just as well as s9. Save points and go for ML's instead, point for point I fear 3 units of fangs with 5 ML per squad more than I fear a unit that is slow and only useful in melee.

15 ML shots, 10 hits, 8.333 wounds, 8.333 dead out of cover. That unit even if it spreads wounds over the 3 wound groups will still lose a guard the first turn. Next turn the entire unit dies. Then you're free to kill the Tervigon and frag his remaining gaunts.

The OP mentioned his opponent using the 2+ save upgrade for his Tyrant, and cover is pretty easy to get by a Tyrant with Guard, all you need is a few Gaunts to stand in front of the Guard. The Tervigon could just Feel No Pain itself or his deathstar unit.

In your example of 8 1/3 wounds, that would be ~2 wounds per model on his unit, which would average in 1 wound on the Prime, 1 dead Tyrant Guard and nothing on the Tyrant. Next round you probably off the remaining Guard and maybe the Prime. The Tyrant is probably still unscathed, so now it'll take 45 missiles on average to kill the Tyrant, or 3 rounds of shooting if you still have all your MLs.

FNP would drastically reduce the damage income on the unit even more, but of course, if he FNPs the deathstar unit, you can concentrate fire on the Tervigon.

Ah I missed the 2+ save upgrade, either way even if it runs you can make it so that unit hits nothing until turn 3 by deploying correctly. However due to that save I would make one unit lascannons and the others missiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lorek wrote:What I really hate is how some people concentrate so much on winning that they never realize how much you can improve your game by playing a bad match-up or playing with a weaker army. You don't get better by winning all of your games.

Given that the guy he's playing has been enough of a pain to say he refuses to play against JotWW why wouldn't you build to win? Hell I would bring 4 psykers with jaws just to make him concede and then point it out to everybody where I game. If you're being enough of a spanker to so that you won't play against a certain power while building a death start unit then you deserve to be hard countered.

My Suggested list for the upcoming game:

HQ:
Rune Priest 1 (Jaws, Living Lightning) - 100
Rune Priest 1 (Jaws, Murderous Hurricane) - 100
Rune Priest 1 (Jaws, Storm Caller) - 100

Troops:
Grey Hunters x5
Grey Hunters x5

Heavy Support:
Long Fangs x6 (2x Missile Launcher, 3x Lascannon)
Long Fangs x6 (2x Missile Launcher, 3x Lascannon)
Long Fangs x6 (4x Missile Launcher, 1x Plasma Cannon)

The way this plays is you leave the fangs and attached Priests 6" in from your max deployment range and laugh as he walks into a massive killzone as he tries to get to you. You can use the Grey hunters a as a screen, or just to hold objectives.

None of you have considered the idea that the reason he refuses to play if Deathpsyker brings Jaws is that there won't be a game. As in, Deathpsyker will have a tremendous advantage to the degree where his opponent will spend more time deploying than playing.

Broken Loose wrote:None of you have considered the idea that the reason he refuses to play if Deathpsyker brings Jaws is that there won't be a game. As in, Deathpsyker will have a tremendous advantage to the degree where his opponent will spend more time deploying than playing.

Even if this is true, and I don't belive it is, you can't make an army that has a huge inherent flaw and then expect people not to exploit that flaw. There is a reason that armies need to be well rounded (at least in the sense of vulnerability). That's like if I made a WHF army with mostly ethereal troops and said "you can't take magic weapons". He has created a rule that gives him a huge advantage. If you are playing someone who does this then you need to discuss a counter handicap, just to even the odds.

Broken Loose wrote:None of you have considered the idea that the reason he refuses to play if Deathpsyker brings Jaws is that there won't be a game. As in, Deathpsyker will have a tremendous advantage to the degree where his opponent will spend more time deploying than playing.

Not necessarily. The Hive Tyrant and his guard are as safe as they're going to be, as the rune priest needs 6's to kill 'em off (unless I am mistaken)
Really, the only thing he should be worried about is the tervigon, but then that's war - you take casualties. It's not that much of an advantage to have Jaws on your list, believe me. I've used it enough times to know.

I'd say Thunderwolves. Possibly Lone Wolves, or Force Weapons.

Or avoid and shoot while breaking the rest of the army. Multiple ML wounds per volley should add up.

Norade wrote:Why Las? They don't have a 2+ save and s8 kills t6 just as well as s9. Save points and go for ML's instead, point for point I fear 3 units of fangs with 5 ML per squad more than I fear a unit that is slow and only useful in melee.

15 ML shots, 10 hits, 8.333 wounds, 8.333 dead out of cover. That unit even if it spreads wounds over the 3 wound groups will still lose a guard the first turn. Next turn the entire unit dies. Then you're free to kill the Tervigon and frag his remaining gaunts.

use the long fangs to kill everything but the tyrant then assault it with this unit

1 Wolf Priest oath of war (monstrous creatures)
1 Wolf Guard with terminator armour 2 thunder hammers
10 blood claws 1 with power fist

if you need to save points drop the power fist first as it needs 5+ to hit a tyrant
then some blood claws. mathhammer this the Wolf Guard with terminator armour 2 thunder hammers always wins