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Henshini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, they should have just given the damn Bolts and a few other PanO units Engineer profiles.

Maybe Bees will be able to join Bolt links. Maybe Bees will be the PanO version of Hafza, being able to join nearly any PanO link.

Doubtful. They didn't give Bolts Haris, they didn't give Aquila Guard Fireteam: Duo, etc. NCA in general has just gotten the shaft.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Henshini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, they should have just given the damn Bolts and a few other PanO units Engineer profiles.

Maybe Bees will be able to join Bolt links. Maybe Bees will be the PanO version of Hafza, being able to join nearly any PanO link.

Doubtful. They didn't give Bolts Haris, they didn't give Aquila Guard Fireteam: Duo, etc. NCA in general has just gotten the shaft.

PanO

Bolts:
Haris? - NO

Aquila Guard:
Fireteam? - NO

NCA:

Shaft? - YES

Ha!

Couldn't resist!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Henshini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, they should have just given the damn Bolts and a few other PanO units Engineer profiles.

Maybe Bees will be able to join Bolt links. Maybe Bees will be the PanO version of Hafza, being able to join nearly any PanO link.

Doubtful. They didn't give Bolts Haris, they didn't give Aquila Guard Fireteam: Duo, etc. NCA in general has just gotten the shaft.

PanO

Bolts:
Haris? - NO

Aquila Guard:
Fireteam? - NO

NCA:

Shaft? - YES

Ha!

Couldn't resist!

Let's look a bit deeper and compare to, say...the Shock Army which got the same unit(ORC Troops) added to it as NCA did.
SAA:
Bagh-Mari
Haris?-Yes
Fireteam?-Yes

And let's not forget that you can throw in a character for them as well, allowing you to get past the normal caveat of just 5 Bagh-Mari.

ORC Troops
AVA 3
Haris?-Yes
Duo?-Yes

Montesa Knights
AVA 2
Duo?-Yes

Regulars
AVA Total
Core Fireteam?-Yes

Compare that to NCA:
Bolts
AVA Total
Core?-Yes

Fusiliers
AVA 5
Core?-Yes

ORC Troops
AVA 3
Haris?-Yes
Duo?-NO


So yeah. NCA did get the shaft even simply when one compares it to its nearest neighbor the SAA Sectorial. That's not even getting into the fact that NCA had their most long awaited TAG shoveled into a box with the SAA's TAG to boost sales numbers or that this far in from HSN3's release, we still don't even have a dossier for the unit which was supposed to fix a lot of NCA's issues(The Locust with its joke of an AVA at 2).

The whole reason Bolts were introduced was to give NCA another Linkable option to 'compete' with Fusiliers. Purportedly that's why the ORCs were thrown in as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Henshini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, they should have just given the damn Bolts and a few other PanO units Engineer profiles.

Maybe Bees will be able to join Bolt links. Maybe Bees will be the PanO version of Hafza, being able to join nearly any PanO link.

Doubtful. They didn't give Bolts Haris, they didn't give Aquila Guard Fireteam: Duo, etc. NCA in general has just gotten the shaft.

PanO

Bolts:
Haris? - NO

Aquila Guard:
Fireteam? - NO

NCA:

Shaft? - YES

Ha!

Couldn't resist!

Let's look a bit deeper and compare to, say...the Shock Army which got the same unit(ORC Troops) added to it as NCA did.
SAA:
Bagh-Mari
Haris?-Yes
Fireteam?-Yes

And let's not forget that you can throw in a character for them as well, allowing you to get past the normal caveat of just 5 Bagh-Mari.

ORC Troops
AVA 3
Haris?-Yes
Duo?-Yes

Montesa Knights
AVA 2
Duo?-Yes

Regulars
AVA Total
Core Fireteam?-Yes

Compare that to NCA:
Bolts
AVA Total
Core?-Yes

Fusiliers
AVA 5
Core?-Yes

ORC Troops
AVA 3
Haris?-Yes
Duo?-NO


So yeah. NCA did get the shaft even simply when one compares it to its nearest neighbor the SAA Sectorial. That's not even getting into the fact that NCA had their most long awaited TAG shoveled into a box with the SAA's TAG to boost sales numbers or that this far in from HSN3's release, we still don't even have a dossier for the unit which was supposed to fix a lot of NCA's issues(The Locust with its joke of an AVA at 2).

The whole reason Bolts were introduced was to give NCA another Linkable option to 'compete' with Fusiliers. Purportedly that's why the ORCs were thrown in as well.

I won't debate the choices for fireteams.

However looking at the similarly minimal choices for docs/engineers for Yu Jing and their secrorials, I can't say there's much sympathy there.

Seems like playing a hyper power kind of means you're good at killing everything in sight. But don't expect to get those kinds of specialists on super useful linkable profiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the news department wasn't there some hint on FB of CB releasing collectible busts in 2017 or something silly?

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

In the news department wasn't there some hint on FB of CB releasing collectible busts in 2017 or something silly?

Good question!

So...was there?

Edit: old news

Luxumbra is making the busts, I think it's Angel Hiraldez's company. The first was a Mobile Brigada based on Natalie Dormer:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Henshini wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, they should have just given the damn Bolts and a few other PanO units Engineer profiles.

Maybe Bees will be able to join Bolt links. Maybe Bees will be the PanO version of Hafza, being able to join nearly any PanO link.

Doubtful. They didn't give Bolts Haris, they didn't give Aquila Guard Fireteam: Duo, etc. NCA in general has just gotten the shaft.

PanO

Bolts:
Haris? - NO

Aquila Guard:
Fireteam? - NO

NCA:

Shaft? - YES

Ha!

Couldn't resist!

 Alpharius wrote:
We all understand that Kan hates certain Anime/Cheesecake elements in Infinity.

We all understand that CB likes to sell models, and probably has a good idea on what sells and what doesn't.

We should all agree to not bait Kan , and Kan should agree to just shrug and move on when encountering females models he doesn't like, and minimize (eliminate?) the ranting about them.

How soon they forget.

So we get a Miranda Ashcroft preview first? Meh. I'm curious about the Raicho pilot and the whatever mini/unit-- Scindron, a remote pilot of the shasvasti Sphinx-- that comes with it. since that may give a glimpse into how the Tech-Bee may function. I think. Since there are no Pan-O remote pilot minis rumored. AFAIK.

I was "agreeing" with Kan.

I suppose that could be a form of 'baiting' but in this case, I'll allow it.

Generous of me, right?

Anyway, I'm certainly surprised that the Tech-Bees have been, seemingly, prioritized above...just about anything else.

But, we can always proxy something else for them too...

Not sure we will have to wait and see the models and rules to start analyse the why's.

Always a wise course of action!

Ah. It came across as mocking Kanluwen. Or winding him up.

The Tech-Bee is a controversial unit. Not just for the mini itself-- for obvious reasons-- but the mystery about its function. It, and this rumored Shasvasti unit-- a new Shasvasti unit of all things, what a (genuine) surprise-- seem to be units in search of a role.

Scindron rules will be out at month's end, if rumors are true. There is this cryptic bit on the Infinity Home Pages current article:

Hellois wrote:...We will now [sic] what truth lies amidst the rumors that are floating around the TAG Pilots, which function will have the new Game State Marker: Locked or that new Silhouette template of the small remote from the Tournament Pack, all related to the Remote Pilot rule....

It will be nice if TAGs become viable choices for ITS army lists. Vamos a ver.

Hmm busts.. really not sure about them (and not something I've had a go at before) but looking at that one above I wouldn't mind having a try.

Certainly might be a good way of improving painting technique and trying something different, assuming they are reasonably priced! (Will CB be trying resin for this?)

Luxumbra is not part of CB, they may be CB employees, but it is a different company and they licence from CB like everybody else.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Seems like playing a hyper power kind of means you're good at killing everything in sight. But don't expect to get those kinds of specialists on super useful linkable profiles.

That argument has been debunked so many times it's not even mildly humorous to see. Everyone is good at murdering people in their active turn, especially now with the high number of options to field a link team or more abilities to additionally add a MOD somewhere in the equation. It's not just specialists that we're constrained with, various weapon types, cheap DTW and smoke grenades also come to mind.

Red Harvest wrote:It will be nice if TAGs become viable choices for ITS army lists.

I still see problems, even, if they become specialists. I'll see of course. Geckos will probably benefit the most.

Luxumbra has CB employees and has an exclusive licence to make busts of Infinity models. Different company or not, it's virtually identical in the public eye.

Well it should not be, because it is not CB and does not tap neither on the resources nor the money of CB and of course it does not impact CBs design or manufacturing schedule.

Point taken. Looked it up. It's a separate entity altogether.
https://www.infoempresa.com/en-us/es/company/luxumbra-sl

Still, it has CB employees and its sole product is an Infinity character. It's also advertised on CB's main site under the "2017- A NEW ADVENTURE BEGINS" heading stating that LuxUmbra produces Infinity busts. "Luxumbra shows us high quality busts from troops and characters from Infinity." Infinity troops and characters in plural. It just feels like a Forge World equivalent. Separate entity and resources for sure, and with Giraldez's protoges doing more and more painting, his resources can go to other projects/companies.
http://infinitythegame.com/article.php?id=268

Of any significant miniature company, CB makes the best use of its partners (Blue Table Painting, and Battlefoam aside).
This is just a slightly closer partnership.

I'd be surprised if they didn't outsource resin casting for the busts. Metal doesn't make a lot of sense and CB really don't need something else in their production queue.

 Knight wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Seems like playing a hyper power kind of means you're good at killing everything in sight. But don't expect to get those kinds of specialists on super useful linkable profiles.

That argument has been debunked so many times it's not even mildly humorous to see. Everyone is good at murdering people in their active turn, especially now with the high number of options to field a link team or more abilities to additionally add a MOD somewhere in the equation. It's not just specialists that we're constrained with, various weapon types, cheap DTW and smoke grenades also come to mind.

Red Harvest wrote:It will be nice if TAGs become viable choices for ITS army lists.

I still see problems, even, if they become specialists. I'll see of course. Geckos will probably benefit the most.

It may not be true in actual game play.
However it's pretty clear that's the rationale CB has in mind when they give the hyper powers only one grunt soldier choice for doctor or engineer.
Maybe they'll change that in AF?

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

It may not be true in actual game play.
However it's pretty clear that's the rationale CB has in mind when they give the hyper powers only one grunt soldier choice for doctor or engineer.

The rationale they had in mind is long since outdated.

There used to be a time where YJ was the CC faction, PanO was the shooty faction, Ariadna was the unhackable faction, Nomads were the hacker faction, and CA was the highest tech faction.

That's why PanO units have less WIP but higher BS, YJ units have a relatively high CC stat, etc.

Maybe they'll change that in AF?

I wouldn't hold my breath. They still feel it necessary for PanO to have a WIP deficit to offset their "higher" BS.

I find it amusing that Haqqislam actually has a better Engineer choice than Yu Jing and PanO.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

It may not be true in actual game play.
However it's pretty clear that's the rationale CB has in mind when they give the hyper powers only one grunt soldier choice for doctor or engineer.

The rationale they had in mind is long since outdated.

There used to be a time where YJ was the CC faction, PanO was the shooty faction, Ariadna was the unhackable faction, Nomads were the hacker faction, and CA was the highest tech faction.

That's why PanO units have less WIP but higher BS, YJ units have a relatively high CC stat, etc.

Maybe they'll change that in AF?

I wouldn't hold my breath. They still feel it necessary for PanO to have a WIP deficit to offset their "higher" BS.

Agreed.
The identity of these factions was all laid out before the game became more popular, streamlined & competitive in ITS and so on.
It is important for factions to have identity and limitations extending from that identity. Otherwise we're just playing red v blue.

 -Loki- wrote:
I find it amusing that Haqqislam actually has a better Engineer choice than Yu Jing and PanO.

Why so? Their entire thematic gimmick is scholar-soldiers. Gaeplay-wise, they have high WIP and units that use them for hacking, engineering, and especially doctoring. Plus, they only really have one engineer anyways, the second is part of their Kaplan Mercenaries with both benefiting from high WIP.

Meanwhile, PanO's resources are vast yet stretched thin so they can only afford to train their soldiers to shoot really well while having expensive equipment; meanwhile their Trauma-Docs are drama queens and Tech-Bees are forced to work in bikinis for moral support. Thematically, it's a stereotypically first-world military mindset where if something gets broken, you don't fix it on-field, you send it back to the manufacturer to get repaired.

Yu Jing actually has pretty good Engineers in general. WIP 13 isn't bad. Plus, they have sectorial access to the amazing Aleph Sophotects.

What's amusing is that Ariadna has better Engineers than PanO.

That's the effects of having to rig everything with planks of wood and duct tape

 Absolutionis wrote:

Yu Jing actually has pretty good Engineers in general. WIP 13 isn't bad.

You mean ALL TWO of them? That one special character and the other one which come in two variants that are essentially the same as choosing between Coca Cola Light or Coca Cola Zero..?

Duct Tape is a bit too high tech for the Hill Billy faction. Maybe baling wire?

 Absolutionis wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I find it amusing that Haqqislam actually has a better Engineer choice than Yu Jing and PanO.

Why so? Their entire thematic gimmick is scholar-soldiers. Gaeplay-wise, they have high WIP and units that use them for hacking, engineering, and especially doctoring. Plus, they only really have one engineer anyways, the second is part of their Kaplan Mercenaries with both benefiting from high WIP.

Their theme is medical scholar soldiers. And Kaplan are not mercenaries to Haqqislam, they're general army list as well as QK. Even their background, while they're a PMC, they're run by a Haqqislam silk magnate and were created specifically to protect his companies assets, they just also take other contracts. They're not Haqqislam army, but they're Haqqislam units. They're as much Haqqislam as Odalisques, who are a privately run bodyguard detail hired out to whomever needs the protection.

 Pacific wrote:
That's the effects of having to rig everything with planks of wood and duct tape

Game doesn't make that distinction, although a valid point.

Everyone enjoys the idea of an asymmetrical forces, however no one really enjoys a thought of finding themselves in a situation where his force is just going to bump into uneven exchange more than usual or simply needing to accept that his faction is build around the limitations rather than options. I really wasn't a happy PanO player for a long time and I'm not seeing a reason to change that stance.

Luxumbra bust for Tanrik Mansuri
https://www.facebook.com/pg/GT-Studio-Creations-476945845756038/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1113107882139828
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Luxumbra-233432543708591/photos/?tab=album&album_id=348525352199309