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So I've recently started collecting Orks. I have about 30 boyz including some Nobz and warboss. A good start, but I know I have a long way to go.

Question is...is there any particular Ork troops or units people would reccomend staying away from? Just ones that are utterly not worth the bang for their buck? As a note, Im not planning on running a 150 boyz army and swamping enemies with sheer number of dice rolls. I plan on having alot of boyz, but I want to use some actual strategy as well, maybe getting into some Kans or trukks, tanks, etc.

Any input would be good. thanks!

Gorgarak.

Supposedly, Lootas aren't that good.

But I dunno.

Well, they're pretty weak in close combat. You're going to want to stay at max range and engage them with sluggas.

Power Klaws are way, way too expensive for the points. Avoid at all costs.

I'd try to pack your army with as many Flash Gitz and Tankbustas as possible.

If you get any Mekboys, make sure to upgrade those sub-par Big Shootas with kustom mega blasters.

So far as heavy support choices go, there isn't anything that Killa Kans can do, that Deff Dreads can't do way better. I usually give mine kustom mega blasters and flamers, using as few CCW's as possible - I think the codex only requires one.

There are some less useful suggestions here but you won't exactly be winning with them. My advice should be all you need.

Yeah, and all your boys should always be equipped with stikkbombs. Always.

Keep your squads of boys in the smallest groups possible, and ditch the warboss for a much more useful weirdboy.

To expound on what Stubby said about the Weirdboy - don't pay for the warphead upgrade! For the 30 points, you can get other more useful stuff, like putting it towards a looted wagon.

Looted wagons are the absolute essence of a ork army, get 3 of them and use them as transports, much better then the normal "Trukks"

Footslogging burna's are also fantastic.

haha essentially anything they said, dont do it haha.

Don't even think about using Ghazghull. I'd consider taking Mad Doc Grotsnik and putting him in a squad of Grots, thereby giving them all FNP which Grots can take advantage of so well with their T2.

Also it should be mentioned that the Powerklaw is the single most expensive and redundant piece of wargear in the entire Ork codex

On an unrelated note; it's backwards day!

I have thought that Tankbustas are really useful.. guaranteeeeeeed to shoot at the closest vehicle they can see, even IF it is out of range, and they can only glance it.. you STILL GET TO SHOOT! Whoo O! Moar Dakka!

This thread is so full of absolutely great advise!

But what is wrong with a flamer on a Deff Dread?

If you must use Killa Kans, you need to make sure that you buy them all Grot riggers and Extra Armor. If you're paying all those points for a vehicle squadron, it needs to have some way to keep moving!

Remember that Orks really have a problem killing Marine equivalents- so give everyone that you can Rokkits and especially kombi-rokkits so that you can get some AP3 in your list.

edit- In the spirit of this thread, this was all terrible advice. Proppa advice follows below.

Decide what you want your Orks to do. They can create many lists, and units are good or bad based on what list they are in. Even the most basic unit, the Boyz are situational. Shootas are generally better on foot, or in large squads. Sluggas are better in trukks, in conventional wisdom.

Some basic 'good' info for Orks in 5 basic axioms-
1. Powerklaws should be in every mob.
2. BS2 rokkits stink, unless they're twin-linked.
3. When in doubt, a 15 point d3 shot autocannon is almost always a good use of points.
4. At the end of the day, it will come down to close combat and you need the charge to win close combat. (Do this with Waaagh or vehicles)
5. You can almost afford 3 Orks for every marine. You can do this because those other 2 boyz WILL die while you're getting the third one into combat with the marine. Your mates are your armor.

Why are people spamming the horrible advice to the OP? Is it because he said, "neato"? It seemed like an honest request for tips on starting an ork army.

ok

Grot riggers on kans. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. immobilized instantly wrecks squadrons.

Rokkits on kans. good. BS3 is so precious.

Boyz before toyz. at least 60 more. i assume you have sluggas(the choppa armed ones) so one unit of shootas will be good.




if you are wanting alot of boyz a KFF mek and a warboss are good HQs for a footsloggin list. along with 9 kans to give everyone cover.

9 kans march in front for a kan wall. KFF mek gives the kans cover. warboss makes a Nob(or mega armored nob) squad scoring. if you get a battlewagon, give it a deffrolla, and have the nobs and the warboss inside. Keep it near the KFF to get the cover and move with the boyz.

when within 18" of the enemy, open the kan wall and deffrolla an enemy unit with the battle wagon, get the nobs out and start krumping, the boyz should hit with a well timed waaaagh.

right first off the good advice, never use the work Neato, keep a couple of mobs of orks to 12 so they fit in a trukk, get a really big mob and make them hard boys, the extra save feels great when your opponant rolls to hit and wound then his face as you make a handfull of saves it's great.

get used to crazy and things going wrong, its what orks are all about

OP:

Everyone in the thread is messing with you. Please disregard.

What you need is an understanding of your codex, how to build a list, and what units fit within which theme. Read the following and then decide what theme you want to pursue so that folks can give you good advice on which units, what proportions, what wargear etc to put in it all.
I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
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1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
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Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.

Dash has it once again.

I like all the people that responded so quickly. Hey....Neato was used to be purposely lame. But in the future i'll make sure I remember to leave it out.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Dash, I gotta say thank you! you totally gave me a comprehensive look into the Ork army. I was planning on doing exactly what you said not too...try to have alot of everything and win with it. I didnt even consider taking shoota boyz over just sluggas. Good idea, I'll make sure I convert most of my sluggas to shootas. I'll reply a bit more later, gota run! but thanks for now!

Dash knows all about the Waaagh! heed his words!

Good luck with the Orkz and let us know how it goes!

Kanluwen wrote:Supposedly, Lootas aren't that good.

But I dunno.

Your thinking of Flash Gits.
Lootas are really good. 15pts for an ork with a strenth 7, ap 4 heavy d3 gun. Eats Guardsmen.

Gorgarak wrote:I like all the people that responded so quickly. Hey....Neato was used to be purposely lame. But in the future i'll make sure I remember to leave it out.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Dash, I gotta say thank you! you totally gave me a comprehensive look into the Ork army. I was planning on doing exactly what you said not too...try to have alot of everything and win with it. I didnt even consider taking shoota boyz over just sluggas. Good idea, I'll make sure I convert most of my sluggas to shootas. I'll reply a bit more later, gota run! but thanks for now!

Ignore my shoota advice; that was copy/pasted.

If you're going foot-slogging, then take shootas. If you're going mechanized, go sluggas.