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I been thinking I might want to do Blood Angels as my next project and I really liked building and playing with Vendettas. Before I spent a lot of time and money converting Storm Ravens what are Blood Angel's player opinions of Storm Ravens gamewise? Are they worth their points? What do you arm them with? I'd probably make mine magnetic like I did with my Valkyries but just asking.

So you proxy Storm Ravens with Vendetta pattern tanks?
Make sense to me, but I'm hesitating at the moment to use Storm Ravens.
Possibly, GW will bring out a model in the near future.

They will likely release a SR models with the GK codex.


Since there isn't a model much less a picture of the model then i would say anything that fits the description in its rules is perfectly fine.

it will likely look like a small thunderhawk, but since there is nothing official you can use anything you want.

See page 4 of the space wolf codex for a picture of a storm raven, so those big things flying in the sky? Guess what they are......

IMO the storm raven is not really worth it, here is why:

1. It costs 200 points base, 70 points more than a vendetta, and for those 70 points you lose scout & extra armor while you gain the assault ramp, Ceremite plating, POTMS, and ability to transport a dreadnought along with a squad. While the weapons are different I think the Bloodstrike missiles coupled with the other weapons make up for the loss of 3 lascannons. Are you getting 70 more points out of it? No....

2. It is Armor 12, meaning my melta still has a 33% of scoring a pen and lascannons which are all the rage with guard & space wolves will pen 50% on a hit. If you don't take extra armor, you'll have a sitting duck a lot of the time. Armor 12 is just too easy to get inside.

3. A storm raven takes a heavy support slot. Fast Vindicators, dreadnoughts, and cheaper devastator squads all are better uses for those slots IMO. Have you played a game with 3 fast vindicators? Try it, you'll like it!

So by not being worth it in points (and we all know the rest of the BA codex has a ton of great things to spend points on), being fragile, and taking up a heavy support slot I'd say the Storm Raven is not a good choice for the most competitive lists.

I've played a couple games proxying them so far, and so far they haven't been worth their points to me.

It's really just a question of how many points you want to load into 1 spot though. You're looking at generally around 600-700 points with a dread and squad loaded into it, which is going to make it a primary target for your enemy. And at av12 it's going to blow up quickly under heavy fire.

You can solve that particular problem by bringing 3 of them, but that's 2k points in 3 transports.

Or you can cut down on points in them by not bringing a dread, but then you're better off with a LR imo.

Or you can not load them with any troops and use them as fire support, but then you'd almost certainly be better off with a fast vindi for less points.

There certainly are ways to use them, but like many of the BA codex entries they've looked much better on paper than in the game for me.

Three storm ravens full of three dreadnoughts and 3 squads.

All three storm ravens move flat out across the table into the 12" range and multi-melta the big tanks. They have a melta-ignoring 4+ cover save the following turn, after which the contents come out and do bad things.

Storm Raven is a transport that gets your Dreadnought and one squad into combat. Its viability really depends on what the GW BA FAQs say and if tournaments near you play by the Adepticon INAT FAQ or not.

If the Storm Raven can turboboast 24 and fire its twin linked multimelta with machine spirit while getting a cover save and if Storm raven dies your troops and dreadnought lands in the crater or just gets out and don't die like in the INAT FAQ, the storm raven is well worth it as it gets your units where you want to go.

The Storm Raven can also move 6 and fire all 4 blood strike missles at 1 target and use power of the macine spirit to fire at a second target.

Getting a little off topic but the competitor for the Heavy slot is the Fast Predator with Auto Cannon and Sponson Las cannons which provides good fire support.

Vindicators do not have synergy with the whole assault style of blood angels. You really don't want Strength 10 AP2 templates scattering onto your own troops.

Dreadnoughts that are not AV13 or Venerable aren't really worth it.

Run Space Wolves and take Long Fangs if you want Devestators.

I'm planning to use a stormraven as a delivery system for my death company dreadnought, and perhaps even my death company with jump packs.
They have the rage special rule, so having something to guide them to the priority targets first would probably be worth taking.
It is the only delivery system besides the drop pod that can deepstrike dreadnoughts in from above, and since it's an assault vehicle, it can get the cargo stuck in CC very quickly, which is what I want. They also provide pretty good fire support, since they are fast and skimmers. They can fire both hurricane bolters and a TL-AC at an infantry target, and then fire an MM at a vehicle in the same turn as they deepstrike. All that for only 230 points sounds like a good deal to me.

I play 2 of them in my BA list and they're pretty outrageous when they get to take advantage of going first. They can put down such a massive amount of firepower in a single shooting phase, so they can be ultra fast and relatively secure delivery platforms for your killy units.

They're sortof tricky to use and fit into a list sometimes because they're extremely expensive points wise for an AV12 vehicle. They absolutely don't have a place in most BA lists. If you design your list with them in mind, and you're able to take advantage of the things they can do, they're very good.

Dashofpepper wrote:Three storm ravens full of three dreadnoughts and 3 squads.

All three storm ravens move flat out across the table into the 12" range and multi-melta the big tanks. They have a melta-ignoring 4+ cover save the following turn, after which the contents come out and do bad things.

^^ 50% of the time...if you go first.

If you go second, then they die turn one and you lose 600 points, plus whetever might possibly die in an exlposion

Even if you go first, folks with lascannon spam or Hydras will own them, even with their 4+ from flat out.
Basically against any shooty AT list, even going first makes them a bad investment....losing 600 points in one turn of shooting just isn't worth it, IMO. 200 pts for AV 12 is iffy, at best.

Now, if your local meta doesn't spam AT weapons like our local meta does, then they are a decent choice.

You are right that it is a dangerous tactic. A few krak/HK missiles and lascannons will efficiently eliminate a stormraven without cover, which it will not recieve when deepstriking or goes second, because it will probably have a huge flyer base putting it high above the trees. It doesn't have smoke launchers either, so the only way to gain cover is moving flat out, which will waste its firepower and not enable the units inside to disembark and assault.

Absolutely. They are expensive, but cost-effective given everything they can do. The key is the fact that they are assault vehicles carrying a large complement of beat-down (like a full squad with two characters and a furioso for support). Once it has delivered this unit swiftly where it needs to go, it has already paid for itself even if it dies immediately afterwards. After delivery, any shots aimed at Ravens are shots not aimed at the elements of your army that are actually winning you the game. If given a single shooting phase, you can pretty much guarantee a dead vehicle on the other side (5 S8 AP1 shots + assault cannon). And yes, they could be taken down before you get a chance to use it, but the ability to outflank and re-roll Seize Initiative with Corvulo (for about 30% odds of success... so you get first turn 2/3rds of the time), not to mention the general sturdiness of vehicles (all those lascannons and krak missiles could just as easily bounce off or just shake it), the odds for an alpha strike are in your favor.

They aren't as plug 'n play as the Vendetta, but if your list is built to take advantage of them, they are totally rocking. Along with the Furioso and Baal, and they are definitely the best new toys the BA dex has to offer.

I have high hopes that the GK will get the Raven, as well as other skimmer-based vehicles (jetbikes? bigger speeders?), so I can have a flyer-based Marine army to complement my tank-heavy Guard.

+1 to Terminus



they are relatively easy to kill(relative to a Landraider) which balances out their ability to transport up to 12 infantry and 1 walker right into the enemy lines.

They are also reasonably costed.

they are a balanced vehicle.



Regardless of recent Fluff fail, GW has put out some good, Versitile, powerful, but not OP, codex's recently. I hope they will keep them coming strong and we don't end up with another codex that goes a decade without an update.

Then again it would be interesting to speculate on which Dex will be the new Dark Eldar.

I nominate Dark Angels. There is absolutely nothing about them that can't be represented by existing books (want Deathwing but don't like their version? Use Space Wolves. Want Ravenwing but don't like their version? Use a C:SM bike captain), and their background is even lamer than the Blood Angels'.

is it like any army with the word Dark in its name will never get updated until GW just does it because its Eratta is longer then the actual Codex

The storm raven is gong to be an interesting new element to the game, I believe. At its points cost, it will be hard pressed to earn that back as it is only a 12 12 12 vehicle that will almost never get a cover save unless it goes flat out. Although of course, it will still be able to fire its twin linked multi melta with power of the machine spirit, which is a bit slowed, in my opinion, but hey, it is not a cheap vehicle.

We will see if it ends up being worth it's cost. I honestly do not believe so. I would rather take a Land Raider or a Crusader for the increased durability. Blood Angels can already reliably go anywhere on the board they wish with descent of angels, so the Storm Raven is a bit redundant. Perhaps as a Dread delivery system, but I can't really justify taking one.

I would never think of taking a stormraven if it wasn't fully loaded with units, because it has so big a transport capacity, even though they would just make it a bigger target.
It's almost custom made to deliver death company troops and DC dreads, mostly because you have no control over them unless they are in a transport, so you NEED some sort of delivery system or other fast way of transportation like jump packs.
Your enemy can get his important units away from the dread if it uses a drop pod to deepstrike and feed it a sacrifical unit the next turn for one more round of shooting - or he could take it out completely with meltaguns. The Stormraven is an assault vehicle so you have absolute control over which targets the units inside can assault, and you don't have to expose them before you are sure that they CAN make their assault.

Kirika wrote:I been thinking I might want to do Blood Angels as my next project and I really liked building and playing with Vendettas. Before I spent a lot of time and money converting Storm Ravens what are Blood Angel's player opinions of Storm Ravens gamewise? Are they worth their points? What do you arm them with? I'd probably make mine magnetic like I did with my Valkyries but just asking.

Unless your just Die hard I would wait for a model t come out.

They seem worth it I have seem them used to great effect. But I think they would be a bit expensive to build. (just me though)

6 bloodstrike missiles, TL-lascannon and Typhoon missile launcher @ 225pts with the idea to transport a very minimal troop-choice selection.

I think the above has some great potential for a gunboat from hell.

As for its model & base.. it could just as easily be based lowdown as per a vyper as it could be up high like a Valkyrie. So with its range and potentially low basing, coversaves could be easy.

That is a hell of a lot of fire power, no doubt, but it could quite easily get dropped from the sky in one shot from damn near any heavy weapon.

That is just a big gamble to take, IMO. If it works and you alpha strike, it works in a big way though, no doubt.

Reecius wrote:That is a hell of a lot of fire power, no doubt, but it could quite easily get dropped from the sky in one shot from damn near any heavy weapon.

That is just a big gamble to take, IMO. If it works and you alpha strike, it works in a big way though, no doubt.

There are other gunboat platforms; Hydras, Loota battlewagons, SW longfang rhino's. They work and whilst this is one of the heavier options it does still retain rear AV12 and anti-melta armour.

Aswell as being a very shooty gunboat, if you ignore its potential to be a faster weaker landraider that ferries dreadnoughts (and to be honest, you really do not need faster landraiders; 12" move + 2" disembark + 6" charge is pretty sufficient for a second-turn assault vehicle), it has amazing mobility for a gunboat role.

When a player puts down a 1st-turn dread in a pod, along with FNP jump infantry that require almost any heavy weapon to effectively be stopped by, the chances of loosing your expensive gunboat slim down substantially in my opinion. If you don't want to go first; you want your assault squads to Decent of Angels into play and reserve your 48" range gunboats into play, you loose nothing in terms of firepower and the piece-meal effect of reserves will only be limited to the 1-3 storm ravens fielded (so each raven brings a substanial amount of anti-everything firepower).

Four missiles, not six.

I would not use them as a gunboat (i.e a vendetta), as you are paying A LOT of points for that transport capacity. And I think your opponents would be completely justified in calling you out on not using the Valkyrie flyer base for the model.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Storm Raven will be part and parcel of the GK book, driving that codex and also functioning as a second-wave BA release.

Avariel wrote:Dreadnoughts that are not AV13 or Venerable aren't really worth it.

Furioso Dreadnoughts are AV13 to the front. Not Death Company Dreadnoughts though.

I agree with what all of you have said, but I just don't see it as an ultra competitive choice, although I very well could be wrong. I would rather take multiple units that shoot that can take cover that are individually less of a loss if destroyed. The transport capacity though, is nice.

And Dreads that are not AV13+ are not worth it?

I strongly disagree with that statement. For the points, a dread is a fantastic choice in many lists. Even the basic load out with a MM, HF and DCCW is a versatile, powerful addition to an army.

I used 4 dreads in my Ard Boyz list and they rocked the house. They key, as with most things in the game, is redundancy. You need target saturation to increase survival of all units. If you take a single dread, his ass is grass.

The dread with two TL autocannons is also quite cheap and beastly in this transport-heavy edition. There was a guy at 'Ard Boyz who brought three units of Long Fangs and three Riflemen dreads (plus a pair of typhoons), and went against an AV12 spam IG army, and killed something like 8 or 9 tanks in the first turn.

They are probably worth it.
But I'd hesitate playing them as there are no models available.
Proxying them with a Valkyrie is not appropriate since a Stormraven should be a bit larger.

For the good of the hobby, don't make another horrible kit bash stormraven. All the ones made out of rhinos + valkyries just look like flying buses. Just be a little patient.

Anyway, you can make many different rocking BA armies without Stormravens. At their points, 'ravens are far from a must-have. They are a really well designed unit -- worth the points, but also not hands-down better than the other stuff you could get for those points.

If the Stormraven had armour 13/12/11 it would be a lot better than now. I think the hefty price tag would deserve it too.

As it stands, I don't think it's worth it at all. Here's for hoping the Grey Knights get a better version of it.

If the BA player goes first, the Stormraven should basically shut down the entire unit of Hydras (not by straight up killing them, but by shooting its entire arsenal at them). The second Stormraven can pull a Vendetta out of the sky. After that, the entire rest of your army has to silence 2 Vendettas to keep the Stormravens safe for a turn (more or less... str6 shooting isn't that terifying, and the ordance templates, if they hit, can suck, but they're the only scary thing still available). Next turn you're either going 12 and dropping your nasty close range unit, or your're going flat out and getting choice angles for your TL Multimeltas.

Against other armies, perhaps you'll go flat out on turn 1 for the cover save. I wouldn't do that against MechGuard though, they have too many guns to care about your cover save. You should be able to muster enough to keep most of them quiet for a turn if you go first though, whch really increases the survivability and effect of the Stormravens.

I'm still playing 2 in my BA list and really liking them. I was going t oswap to Land Raiders with TH/SS Terminators and give that a try for a while, but I'm finding the Stormravens to be very effective at the moment (with an Honor Guard/Librarian in one and Sanguinary Guard/Priest in the other).

You assume though, that you go first and that the other player would leave valuable models exposed to an alpha strike, which is unlikely unless they make a really big mistake.