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So i have a friend who, through just observing me, is interested in 40K. After showing him the various armies in the BRB he figured he likes the Tyranids the most, and wants to make a Winged Tyranid list. It's pretty fluffy but he wants it to be at least somewhat good as well as fluffy, so he asks me for help in making it.

After glancing through the codex a few times I'm having trouble picking between the Parasite, or a slightly tooled out Flyrant.

The list will consist of Winged Warriors (Strykes), Gargoyles, one of the two HQs, some termagaunts, a Tervagon, and possibly, POSSIBLY, a Harpy (we haven't descided on that yet).

So which of the two HQs is better in your opinion? Both fit the theme, the Parasite's a bit cheeper and is an IC, whilst the Flyrant is...well, killy, but so very many points (the one he thoguht worked best was 275 points. Ouch)

Me, I'm an Ork player. I got no clue honestly, even with a few browses of the codex. What do you, Dakka, think is the better choice for a Winged Tyranid army?

I've rolled the idea of fulled-out winged-nid list a couple of times, and for the main point of this topic... I think the tyran would be too expensive for the games (I imagine) he's going to be playing atm.

The one I'm going to recommend is HT w/ Wings, TL Dev Worms, HVC, HC, Reg and Wings. One that'll last and do the jobs you need etc etc is 315.... their an arm and a leg

The 'Site on the otherhand is 160 has some funky effects which will stuff around with the ole out-flankers - which would be annoying for this style list etc, as you said IC so he can hide etc... I think it would be a rewarding enough choice for the army and for playing with.

Depends on his playstyle. I would recommend the Parasite if he plans on making a horde of gargoyles so he can make the most of his IC status while not losing any speed. Had great experiences myself with this build. In any other situation I would recommend the tyrant.

It's hard to define his play style yet, but what he wants to do is have a mostly assault based wing swarm. That seems to scream Parasite, but since we've descided to void the Harpy since EVERYONE says it sucks, we find we have little anti Tank, which would be what the Tyrant is for. He flies over, opens the cans up, and his little friends mop up the rest.

Or that's the idea.

After fittling around more last night, I think I have both possible lists set up. Tell me what you think.

Hive Fleet Typhon

1000 pts.

HQ

Hive Tyrant – 275 pts.
- Wings
- Scything Talons x4
- Hive Commander
- Regeneration
- Paroxysm
- Leech essence

Troops – 285 pts.

Termagaunts x10 – 60 pts.
- Spike Rifle

Tervagon – 225 pts.
- Toxic Sacks
- Adrenalin Glands
- Regeneration
- Onslaught
- Cluster Spines

Fast Attack – 440 pts.

Tyranid Strykes x6 – 300 pts.
- Rending Claws
- Boneswords

Gargoyles x20 – 140 pts.
- Toxin Sacks

This one's sort of a flying Phalenx, or possibly a "Drop In To Say Hi" sort of thing. The Tervagon would outflank thanks to the Hive Tyrant whilst either everything else moves up, Gargoyles leading to give cover to everything else, followed by the Strykes, then by the Tyrant, with the gaunts in the back to hold objectives. The Tervagon would then after ouflanking either go for any turtling tanks whilst makin babies, or sit on the closest objective...whilst makin babies. Other option is that the whole thing basically deep strikes all over the place, forceing the opponent to spread out their fireing whilst I get everything I can into assault.

Hive Fleet Typhon

1000 pts.

HQ

Parasite of Mortex – 160 pts.

Troops – 285 pts.

Termagaunts x10 – 50 pts.

Tervagon – 225 pts.
- Toxic Sacks
- Adrenalin Glands
- Regeneration
- Onslaught
- Cluster Spines

Fast Attack – 580 pts.

Tyranid Strykes x7 – 350 pts.
- Rending Claws
- Boneswords

Gargoyles x30 – 210 pts.
- Toxin Sacks

This one's not too different than the other, just more models. Had to remove the Spikeguns on the Termagaunts caue i was over by five friggin points. Eyuch. Anyway, without the Tervagon outflanking this will probably go more with the original idea of an assaulty phalanx, rather than the Drop In for Dinner idea. Unfortunatly I sitll lost my only flying Monsterous Creature, leaving me with the Warriors as my only real way to pop vehicles. Still though....that's quite a bit mroe models and it makes me feel lots better.

So, suggestions?

Both lists have some extremely points heavy units. I'm personally not a fan of shrikes at all. I would rather get walking warriors with a spod so they can shoot at stuff the turn they arrive. It works out slightly more expensive but they are a troops choice and have a better armour save.

You also have too many upgrades on your Tyrant. Regeneration on a 4 wound model just isn't worth it, especially if he can get wounds back from life leech anyways.

I would (for both lists) make the shrikes warriors with spods and reduce their numbers. Lose some gargoyles to fit in a prime to attach to the warriors and give him all the cc goodies you can. Parasite attaches to the gargoyles. He's actually quite reasonable when it comes to popping vehicles that aren't av14 all around. Then with whatever points you have left get more gaunts. You have some tricked out tervigons but aren't making the most of them.

I'm personally not a fan of shrikes at all.

Admittedly I'm not either. They look great don't get me wrong, and I love Jump Infantry to death in general, but that armor save of crap is crap...that's what the Gargoyle swarm would mainly be there for, protecting their asses. But they were the big thing he wanted to add to his list and I doubt he'd take them out now. I probably could get the number reduced though, in favor of more gaunts.

You also have too many upgrades on your Tyrant. Regeneration on a 4 wound model just isn't worth it, especially if he can get wounds back from life leech anyways.

Point taken and I more or less agree. My question is, are the 4 scything tallons good for an assault Flyrant? I don't wana buy a gun for him, as I think his best place is just ripping things up, but I'm torn between the four scything talons and the bonesword/lashwip and one set of talons combos.

What's your opinion on the Tervagon? It seems like a really risky manuver to me, but at the same time it could pay off really well....it could pay off. Could. If it were me I'd dump it either in exchange for more gaunts or, to me, dump both and get a nice twin brood of warriors with dual boneswords and some sort of gun. But I'm a bit afraid of all the high strength weapons negating those lovely three wounds on the Warriors. ;; Mind you with the shrikes in their face with the Parasite and his gargoyles, maybe he'll be too preocupied. That's the hope.

I have found great potential with tervigons. Since you have the Hive commander upgrade on the tyrant he becomes more useful. If you do use the tervigon to outflank your opponent has to deal with him very quickly. If they fail to deal with it next turn they have not 1 but 2 units of troops marching towards their objective.

Even in the 2nd list where he can't do this he makes gaunts far more effective. They deliver a lot more in cc if they get the benefit of his poison, furious charge and counter attack. I would keep him in...

I personally like my flyrant with wings with scything talons as well. He looks a lot less threatening than he actually is. But then my strategy is very different. I go in with multiple trygons and DS pretty much everything. The tyrant I use for support. Lootas preparing to shoot the snot out of your DSing trygon...not with BS 1 they aren't. Lashwhip is good if you are gonna give the tyrant acid blood. They take the I test at I1 if in BtB...that's potentially a few more wounds for combat resolution.

Lukus83 wrote:Lootas preparing to shoot the snot out of your DSing trygon...not with BS 1 they aren't. Lashwhip is good if you are gonna give the tyrant acid blood. They take the I test at I1 if in BtB...that's potentially a few more wounds for combat resolution.

Hehe, I can't help myself here, you flew your Tyrant till it was within 12" of my Lootas?
What I'm saying is if your Rant is close enough to my lootas for paroxysm... I've got bigger problems than your DSing 'Gon

Whew. Lots and lots of things to do. What's bad is that I doublt this'll ever get off the ground anytime soon with his lack of funds. XD

But anyway, thank you all for your suggestions.

So for the first list, I've descided to go with a slightly different aproach than the original idea. Here's how things have changed up.

Hive Fleet Typhon
1000 pts.

HQ

Hive Tyrant – 255 pts.
- Wings
- Scything Talons x4
- Hive Commander
- Paroxysm
- Leech essence

Troops – 3 pts.

Termagaunts x25 – 160 pts.
- Spike Rifle
- Strangleweb

Tervagon – 225 pts.
- Toxic Sacks
- Adrenalin Glands
- Regeneration
- Onslaught

Fast Attack –360 pts.

Tyranid Strykes x4 – 180 pts.
- Rending Claws
- Deathspitter

Tyranid Strykes x4 – 180 pts.
- Rending Claws
- Deathspitter

How's it look. The obvious change is a sudden lack of Gargoyles. This is because I descided I don't need them for what I'll be doing with this army now...and that's deep striking everything with wings.

I admit I'm not a big fan of deepstrikeing, with all the randome things that can happen, but still, with all the things with wings and the Flyrant sporting his Hive Command upgrade I'm hoping to get everything at least by turn three.

The idea is to surround my opponent with threats. First is the twenty five man Gaunt Swarm, who I think I'll sit behind cover to start, or have them dart into cover. Or maybe hold my home objective. Not sure yet.....also, I don't know if I should Deep Strike the Flyrant himself or just let him wing it. Hard choice is hard.

The Strykes got an overall. There's eight of them now, split into two squads, so I don't have all my eggs in one basket. Gave them guns to do something useful on their first turn in play. Don't think they'll need the Boneswords if they gotz the claws anyway. Maybe....we'll hope.

Now lots more Gaunts! So yay. Tervigon will still be outflanking so I'll get my opponent no matter where they're trying ot turtle up, though I'll hope for the side with the objectives of course. I'm a bit more worried if it's an assault army I guess...in that case I'd suggest useing hte second list to try and outmanuver it.

So I'll work more on the second list, but for now, tell me what you think on this one.

I run dual winged tyrants in 2k lists. If you're taking winged tyrants you need multiple threats so the tyrants don't get shot down quickly. You need two of them or bigger fast moving beasts like trygons.

Looking at your list you simply haven't got enough and the tyrant will die soon. Try gargoyles as a shield around it, gives it a 4+ cover save at least.

Looking at your list you simply haven't got enough and the tyrant will die soon. Try gargoyles as a shield around it, gives it a 4+ cover save at least.

Which was my original idea, but if I'm going with the Deep Strike army I might not need them as much.

However, from what I've discussed with my friend today, we may go with the Parasite list after all.

I'm still on the parasites side - the points alone for what you're trying to do is a solid argument and he's fluffieeee!!! don't forget

My tyrant wasn't flying over to the lootas...he deepstruck next to them. If you DS stuff in you need to make damned sure that you can deal with the most dangerous units to you before they get a chance to mess up the grand plan. Ymgarls and Paroxysm are awesome in this regard.

Hey again all. Again, I'd like to thank you guys for all the suggestings you give. Especially in helping an idiot Ork player build a list he has no earthly idea how to use.

After talking with my friend again today, it looks like the Parasite list is the one we're going for, so with that, I present the new and improved version. I think so anyway.

Hive Fleet Typhon

1000 pts.

HQ – 270 pts.

Parasite of Mortex – 160 pts.

Tyranid Prime – 110 pts.
- Lash Whip and Bonesword
- Rending Claws
- Adrenalin Gland

Troops – 555 pts.

Warriors x4 – 200 pts.
- Lash Whip and Bonesword
- Rending Claws
- Adrenalin Gland
- Mycetic Spore – 55 pts.
-- Barbed Strangler

Termagants x20 – 100 pts.

Tervagon – 200 pts.
- Scything Talons
- Adrenalin Gland
- Toxic Sack
- Catalyst

Fast Attack – 175 pts.

Gargoyles x25 – 175 pts.
- Toxin Sacks

I went with your suggestion, Luku, and dropped hte Shrykes in favor of normal warriors in spods. I tooled them out for assault, and hopefully they'll do their job of contesting an opponent's Objective fast. Even managed to get a Prime in on the action.

I also managed to work 20 gaunts and the mighty Tervagon in there. Only one, but I think it'll be all I need to swarm the opposition fast.

The Gargoyles I'm still not sure. They could Deep Strike, and actually do some descent shooting...I think. Or they could just wing it over the table. For them it isn't so far. Of course the Parasite, the star of hte show, is there to mess up annything either way, and maybe get me some tiny, ravenous little monsters to play with!

So all In all, fluffy and cool and with neat models potentially and I think it'll even maybe do ok. Hopefully.

As usual, thoughts are wanted. Hardcore. XD

Lukus83 wrote:My tyrant wasn't flying over to the lootas...he deepstruck next to them. If you DS stuff in you need to make damned sure that you can deal with the most dangerous units to you before they get a chance to mess up the grand plan. Ymgarls and Paroxysm are awesome in this regard.

Ah got you~! Yeah I haven't had a chance to play against the new nids with my orks yet... But I'm still getting that light headed feeling of glee when you say i won't have to go all the way over there

(Of course we won't go into issues here especially as I don't know which side of the debate I'm on)

Ork Cyborg wrote:Gargoyles x25 – 175 pts.
- Toxin Sacks

You are far better off with slightly fewer Gargoyles (21) who have Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs. Adrenal Glands give you I5, which is nice (strike before marines); far more importantly, it gives you S4 on the charge. In combination with poison, that means rerolling to-wound rolls against T4 opponents...which is a huge number of units.

50% more wounds against MEQs and orks, at the low, low cost of 4 gargoyles? Yes, please.

+1 on Janthkins post. Gargoyles have the ability to inflict a stupid number of wounds. Not only with poison but with hitting on 6's auto-wounding. Using a tyrant to give them preferred enemy is just sick.

Done and done, thank you both for the great suggestions.

We agree the final list looks pretty damn swell and he's looking forward to eventually getting the money to try it out. XD

Even so this is a great learning experience for me. Thank you all again.

I quite like the Parasite, but he's kinda overpriced. He's not so much like a cheaper Winged Tyrant, with the ability to threaten just about anything in the game... he's more like a slightly more mobile Broodlord, optimised for killing Independent Characters.

You get a few Rippers out of him, but not really enough to be worth all those points.

The reason people say the Harpy sucks is because people are lacking in critical analysis.

How do Tyranids kill vehicles? Up close by their Elite slots, or through close combat. In general, the Elite stuff will be focus-fired first at full strength, on account of the lack of range the Elites have. Enter the Harpy. It doesn't kill vehicles, but it stops them from firing. This helps everything else get up-close to kill. Their 4+ save can be mostly circumvented by having them hug the Gargoylescreen for cover.